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Hiding in Eve- Why We Cloak

Author
Mizhir
Devara Biotech
#81 - 2011-12-21 15:40:03 UTC
You are brilliant :)

Changes like this is definitely making me screw my secstatus and move to low or nullsec. Would be cool to have my own little hidden home where I can explorer and pvp in the nearby area.

❤️️💛💚💙💜

FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#82 - 2011-12-21 15:42:22 UTC
I see all this talk about being able to hide, yet not one bit about locator agents.

As the game stands right now, the only place you can escape the prying eyes of the mystical locators is w-space. If you're in k-space, they WILL betray your location to your enemies for a minimal fee. If we're going to go to all this trouble to rewrite vast portions of the game so that people can "hide" in a more meaningful sense, locators badly need a nerf to go along with it.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Mors Sanctitatis
Death of Virtue
#83 - 2011-12-21 16:07:56 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
I see all this talk about being able to hide, yet not one bit about locator agents.

As the game stands right now, the only place you can escape the prying eyes of the mystical locators is w-space. If you're in k-space, they WILL betray your location to your enemies for a minimal fee. If we're going to go to all this trouble to rewrite vast portions of the game so that people can "hide" in a more meaningful sense, locators badly need a nerf to go along with it.


Floppie,

I'm glad you brought that up!

As a long time pirate and high sec war deccer, I've used locator agents quite extensively. I completely agree that locator agents in their present form would have to be radically revamped. Here's a twist however: what if we could redesign the concept of locator agents to be player driven instead of NPC based? What if players posted "information/location contracts" with a payout that decreased over time. The faster you get a player the correct info, the more money you receive. What if players could download entire data sets of intel information to other players/corps/alliances?

We could have professional scouts that do nothing but map areas for ship activity, resources, all sorts of things. CCP could move currently static resources to a more dynamic and flowing design that wouldn't change daily, but maybe on a monthly or annual scale so that last years resource maps aren't this years etc. This way there will always be something new to discover by returning players... The universe is always changing, Eve should too.

What if while randomly scanning, a player happens upon a few different players, the scanning player checks the "information/location wanted" database, sees that the players he just uncovered are wanted by someone and contacts the original poster to negotiate terms of payment for their location info? There could be some sort of professional level in-game structure that would be game-verified to prevent scamming. But the real way players will experience secure and reliable information is by reputation. Excellent scouts with outstanding reputations for timely information will earn their own reputations as being the "go-to" guy for info. The downside, people might not like the idea that you sold them out! The information brokers might get contracts taken out on their heads for doing so! Man, this just keeps getting better... :D


MeestaPenni
Mercantile and Stuff
#84 - 2011-12-21 16:54:06 UTC
The author of this thread is way too creative and bright to be playing this game. He's probably just taking a short break from designing warp drives or sumpin' at MIT.

I am not Prencleeve Grothsmore.

oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#85 - 2011-12-21 17:12:57 UTC
nice read +1 nice ideas

R.S.I2014

Sany Saccante
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#86 - 2011-12-22 15:13:54 UTC
+1
Dragon Outlaw
Rogue Fleet
#87 - 2011-12-22 17:48:21 UTC
Pushing this thread back up because I like the idea.

Makes me remember when I was playing submarine games where you had a silent hunter stalking is prey. Like it was expressed by some, the basis of the OP`s idea is what I though I was getting myself into when I started playing this game 2 years ago. I stil like the game but this idea would be an interesting revolution.

CCP should hire the OP, pay him an appartment somewhere in Iceland and provide him with a nice Porsh for is local travels. And how about a Challenger 300 at is disposal?
Mussaschi
No Wise Guy's
#88 - 2011-12-22 18:24:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Mussaschi
+1

add something to a appease pirates (e.g. ransom contracts that pay out money, once the space ship does reach a station and dock, and/or a emergency exit, that give people a chance to rescue their implants, but leaves the ship for the pirates) and we have a perfect addition to eve
Chandaris
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#89 - 2011-12-22 18:37:03 UTC
+1

fully agree

local needs to change, and directional scanner is the answer to removing it and adding greated depth to gameplay.. intel should not be free
Kaylyis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#90 - 2011-12-22 18:49:23 UTC
If something like this were to be introduced in EVE tomorrow, I'd be ass deep in nullsec within 48 hours of the change.
Dragon Outlaw
Rogue Fleet
#91 - 2011-12-22 19:18:19 UTC
Kaylyis wrote:
If something like this were to be introduced in EVE tomorrow, I'd be ass deep in nullsec within 48 hours of the change.


What would you be flying?...and what do you mean by "ass deep"?

Big smile could not resist!
Kaylyis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#92 - 2011-12-22 19:31:46 UTC
Dragon Outlaw wrote:
Kaylyis wrote:
If something like this were to be introduced in EVE tomorrow, I'd be ass deep in nullsec within 48 hours of the change.


What would you be flying?...and what do you mean by "ass deep"?

Big smile could not resist!


Tech 1 battleships, mining rigs, scanner boats, tackle frigs, HACs, whatever i can get my greedy little claws on.

One of the advantages of having some REALLY **** advice early on is I have a broad base of skills I can use to deal with **** even if I'm not ubercombatmonkey yet.

And by ass-deep? i'd dig in like a tick.
Kaylyis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#93 - 2011-12-22 19:57:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaylyis
Funny thing is...

Even if these changes were implemented?

You'd still have highsec people who wouldn't consider the risks worth the reward.

I look at it more as if I can make enough ISK to keep the skillbooks coming, and replace the ships you nullsec maniacs cheerily detonate? totally worth it plus I'd get to shoot at someone before I explode.

Finding an alliance/null corp that works for me (hell finding a recruiter who'll talk to you is nonintuitive) is a pain, though here in a bit I'm going to have to start looking because Highsec is BOOOORIIING.

And if you go out but the costs of replacing ships are bigger than your income? You get driven right back out into highsec to recoup, so doing it solo is right out, as it should be for a long term roam.

Bluntly if I can make enough coin to keep myself in combat ships and mining rigs even when getting my **** blown up, then I won't need things like corp ship replacement programs. Nice to have, but I doubt there's many corps that freely replace my preferences in gear.

Playing EVE in hardmode: Gallente ships Big smile
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#94 - 2011-12-22 20:10:41 UTC
Quote:
Currently, there's no advantage to being a small group.


I had been trying to take your post seriously, and read the entire post #1 until I came to that and realized you're not playing Eve online.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it

Arthay
#95 - 2011-12-22 22:52:28 UTC
+1

 If you find any misspelling or grammar errors, your allowed to keep them.

Beaches
#96 - 2011-12-22 23:14:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Beaches
Kaylyis wrote:
Dragon Outlaw wrote:
Kaylyis wrote:
If something like this were to be introduced in EVE tomorrow, I'd be ass deep in nullsec within 48 hours of the change.


What would you be flying?...and what do you mean by "ass deep"?

Big smile could not resist!


Tech 1 battleships, mining rigs, scanner boats, tackle frigs, HACs, whatever i can get my greedy little claws on.

One of the advantages of having some REALLY **** advice early on is I have a broad base of skills I can use to deal with **** even if I'm not ubercombatmonkey yet.

And by ass-deep? i'd dig in like a tick.


I would bring... a small POS, a blockade runner and a t3 with guns, probes and gas harvesters.
NARDAC
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#97 - 2011-12-23 14:36:37 UTC
Mors Sanctitatis wrote:
Players such as yourself positively REEK of carebear.


You say that like it is an insult. Ask CCP if they want every carebear to drop their sub. I think you will find the answer is no.

Mors Sanctitatis wrote:

Your one dimensional thinking is pathetic and your lack of creativity even more so. Clearly you don't have the vision capable of contemplating the idea that just as many tools to hide/evade detection would be included as there would be tools to find and attack players.


So, you want EVE to have 1,000 players, all flying covert ships, spending all their game time trying to find each other, without being found by each other?


You haven't addressed the most basic of my assertions. If you make it easy to gank people, people stop doing whatever it was tehy were doing that got them ganked.

No local in wormholes. What % of the population lives in wormholes? 3%? Something like that?



Mors Sanctitatis wrote:

So TL; DR: you're only focusing on the things that you fear most: being ganked by players who are far smarter than you, which is probably the whole of Eve.


As a carebear, I'm explaining to you why your idea would destroy the game and wouldn't give you what you want anyway.

You want it to be easy to sneak up on people and kill them. Any system that enabled that would instantly result in people no longer doing any of the activities that makes it easy for them to be snuck up on.

So, you make just as many defensive systems to make it hard to sneak up on me and kill me. Okay, so you can't sneak up on me and kill me. Okay, what have you gained over local?


If you can sneak up on me and kill me, I don't do anything that lets you sneak up on me and kill me. If you can't sneak up on me and kill me, how is it different than local?

Think it through.

PEOPLE are not going to just sit there waiting for you to sneak up on them and kill them. Get rid of local, you turn all of EVE into Wormhole space with 97% fewer players.



But.. but.... people won't come out when I'm in local. Right, and without local they simply won't ever come out.
bgummer
Malicious Destruction
#98 - 2011-12-23 15:37:51 UTC
+1

great idea's. like a previous poster stated, I'd move back to k space for this.


Mokokan
Transtar Services
#99 - 2011-12-23 15:40:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Mokokan
Well, pushing aside the your basic dismissal of the concept of "forcing" players to actually run into each other so they can actually interact, let's cut to the chase. You're proposing adding a very significant number of calculations per/ship, per/second, per/location in a game already struggling mightily NOT to have lag. A very significant amount of CCP dev manhours to produce a game where most of the game will remain invisible.

Did I precisely portray your proposal? No. I actually like your ideas, and hope some game improvements might have gotten their germination here. I also would love for the game to accurately portray gravity, inertia, and stations/ships actually orbiting planets(that are also in motion). But dat ain't gonna happen, and I accept that.


Hmmmm
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#100 - 2011-12-23 15:43:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Ingvar Angst
It looks great on paper... but it's enough free intel to be a nerf to wormholes. Wormholes are supposed to be dangerous... having the ships tell your lazy ass someone's around instead of requiring you to actively check the scanner makes it too easy.

This would also likely make it a lot easier for bots to detect ships and escape.

The part about cloaks needing fuel or the like... breaks the ability to gather intel in wormholes, which could take days or even weeks of remaining unseen to do. Really bad idea.

Nicely thought out, well done... but can't support nerfing wormholes or making life easier for bots.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.