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Removing ECM and re-aligning EWAR
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Lugh Crow-Slave
#21 - 2016-04-23 21:57:19 UTC
Kieron VonDeux wrote:
ECM should be changed to simply breaking target lock, but you are still allowed to lock again. Of course module and drone cycle times would have to be rebalanced.

Note: Make the default cycle times really long but bonus a cycle time reduction on specialty jammer ships.



So making its main purpose of countering lodi pointless and ensuring that they die within moments of landing on grid?

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Aliventi
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#22 - 2016-04-23 22:00:15 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
There is a guaranty you will if the ecm is damped down or forced off feild

Edit or if the pilot was an idiot and warped away or flew out of range

The same way you're getting out of a vindi range

You still don't understand counterable by piloting. I can get out of web range through actions that I take through piloting. Someone else damping down the ECM ship isn't me countering ECM through piloting. The ECM ship warping away isn't me countering ECM through piloting.
Aliventi
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#23 - 2016-04-23 22:01:38 UTC
Kieron VonDeux wrote:
ECM should be changed to simply breaking target lock, but you are still allowed to lock again. Of course module and drone cycle times would have to be rebalanced.

Note: Make the default cycle times really long but bonus a cycle time reduction on specialty jammer ships.


WE ARE NOT DISCUSSING FIXES TO ECM. That is not what this idea has anything to do with. I am merely educating Lugh Crow-Slave on EWAR because he doesn't have much PvP experience.
Kieron VonDeux
#24 - 2016-04-23 22:05:12 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Kieron VonDeux wrote:
ECM should be changed to simply breaking target lock, but you are still allowed to lock again. Of course module and drone cycle times would have to be rebalanced.

Note: Make the default cycle times really long but bonus a cycle time reduction on specialty jammer ships.



So making its main purpose of countering lodi pointless and ensuring that they die within moments of landing on grid?



Well, they normally die really fast anyways unless you have your own logi.

Breaking target lock on logi even for a few seconds can make a difference when the miss that critical rep or two, and need to re-establish their cap chain more frequently.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#25 - 2016-04-23 22:07:23 UTC
No it is not something you can counter through an Acton of your own but it is something countable by your fleet. Not everything needs to be countable directly by the person the Acton is being done to. And you are not getting out of a vindi web going sub 300 (generous) if he doesn't want you to

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Kieron VonDeux
#26 - 2016-04-23 22:08:21 UTC
Aliventi wrote:
Kieron VonDeux wrote:
ECM should be changed to simply breaking target lock, but you are still allowed to lock again. Of course module and drone cycle times would have to be rebalanced.

Note: Make the default cycle times really long but bonus a cycle time reduction on specialty jammer ships.


WE ARE NOT DISCUSSING FIXES TO ECM. That is not what this idea has anything to do with. I am merely educating Lugh Crow-Slave on EWAR because he doesn't have much PvP experience.



Yeah, I'm simply providing some options to your idea of "re-imagining EWAR" Roll

Btw, I don't think you know as much as you think you do, I realize that may fall on deaf ears. Lol
Lugh Crow-Slave
#27 - 2016-04-23 22:10:03 UTC
Kieron VonDeux wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Kieron VonDeux wrote:
ECM should be changed to simply breaking target lock, but you are still allowed to lock again. Of course module and drone cycle times would have to be rebalanced.

Note: Make the default cycle times really long but bonus a cycle time reduction on specialty jammer ships.



So making its main purpose of countering lodi pointless and ensuring that they die within moments of landing on grid?



Well, they normally die really fast anyways unless you have your own logi.

Breaking target lock on logi even for a few seconds can make a difference when the miss that critical rep or two, and need to re-establish their cap chain more frequently.


Except you don't jam the logi so it can't rep the fleet you jam it so it can't rep the rest of the logi otherwise you're better of with damps. And unless you have high alpha missing one cycle will not kill your sister logi

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
violator2k5
Crescent Nova
#28 - 2016-04-23 22:14:03 UTC
Aliventi wrote:
I am going to thoroughly enjoy shutting you down with my extensive knowledge of EWAR and Eve's game mechanics.


I have two questions for you about your own skills and previous experience with ecm ewar?

1) did you level your sensor compensation skills to lvl 5?

2) have you ever flown a ship with ECCM or had remote ECCM added to you from another pilot in your gang to help deal with being jammed when in combat?
Lugh Crow-Slave
#29 - 2016-04-23 22:15:53 UTC
violator2k5 wrote:
Aliventi wrote:
I am going to thoroughly enjoy shutting you down with my extensive knowledge of EWAR and Eve's game mechanics.


I have two questions for you about your own skills and previous experience with ecm ewar?

1) did you level your sensor compensation skills to lvl 5?

2) have you ever flown a ship with ECCM or had remote ECCM added to you from another pilot in your gang to help deal with being jammed when in combat?


No you see he doesn't care of toy can prevent being jammed he's upset you can't get out of it on your own once jammed

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Kieron VonDeux
#30 - 2016-04-23 22:21:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Kieron VonDeux
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:

Except you don't jam the logi so it can't rep the fleet you jam it so it can't rep the rest of the logi otherwise you're better of with damps. And unless you have high alpha missing one cycle will not kill your sister logi



I was talking about them missing reps on other logi.

Breaking locks in a cap chain while they are scan res damped can have a significant effect on their ability to maintain that cap chain.

It would increase the coordination needed to disrupt them but it could have significant effects over time.

I do realize this probably isn't "the fix", but it is an alternative idea that may lead to better ones.
Aliventi
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#31 - 2016-04-23 22:24:42 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
No it is not something you can counter through an Acton of your own but it is something countable by your fleet. Not everything needs to be countable directly by the person the Acton is being done to. And you are not getting out of a vindi web going sub 300 (generous) if he doesn't want you to

Because every pilot flies in a fleet.... Roll

violator2k5 wrote:
Aliventi wrote:
I am going to thoroughly enjoy shutting you down with my extensive knowledge of EWAR and Eve's game mechanics.


I have two questions for you about your own skills and previous experience with ecm ewar?

1) did you level your sensor compensation skills to lvl 5?

2) have you ever flown a ship with ECCM or had remote ECCM added to you from another pilot in your gang to help deal with being jammed when in combat?

1. I have all the sensor comps to 4. Level 5 would be useful, but I have other things to train right now. Mainly all T2 ship skills to V. I will be done on 2 Nov on 03:54:04.

2. I don't fly ships with ECCM anymore, but I did quite often when ECCM existed. I do fly ships with sensor boosters and the ECCM script now. Mainly on my Devoter to counter the ECM burst on Supers. Also, useful to swap over to the targeting resolution script to tackle booshers. We caught one trying to boosh people off the undock just a bit ago.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#32 - 2016-04-23 22:34:10 UTC
No not every pilot flies in a fleet but if you are 1v1 against a ecm ship toy should be more than capable of taking its dps for the 20seconds. If it is not 1v1 then friends will always give you an advantage ecm or not

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Aliventi
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#33 - 2016-04-23 22:40:02 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
No not every pilot flies in a fleet but if you are 1v1 against a ecm ship toy should be more than capable of taking its dps for the 20seconds. If it is not 1v1 then friends will always give you an advantage ecm or not

Have you ever heard of ECM drones? Pretty much gives non-ECM ships a pretty powerful chance to jam.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#34 - 2016-04-23 22:43:07 UTC
That's an issue with the drones not ecm and I'm 100%in agreement that those need to go

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Aliventi
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#35 - 2016-04-23 22:51:16 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
That's an issue with the drones not ecm and I'm 100%in agreement that those need to go

You still haven't shown that ECM is counterable by piloting.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#36 - 2016-04-23 22:53:10 UTC
Not by your narrow definition but I don't belive everything should be able to be countered by a single person

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Aliventi
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#37 - 2016-04-23 22:56:54 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Not by your narrow definition but I don't belive everything should be able to be countered by a single person

That's your opinion. However, a widely held opinion is that ECM has no counter play by the individual piloting. Every other EWAR has it.
Kieron VonDeux
#38 - 2016-04-23 23:03:35 UTC
Aliventi wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Not by your narrow definition but I don't belive everything should be able to be countered by a single person

That's your opinion. However, a widely held opinion is that ECM has no counter play by the individual piloting. Every other EWAR has it.


Choose to use a ECCM script and a fleet booster with info gang links, or risk getting jammed easier. You know, rock scissors, paper gameplay...

Oh, and don't fly alone... Its a MMO where teamwork can really make a difference.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#39 - 2016-04-23 23:03:45 UTC
Other ewar also has a100% guaranty not everything needs to be the same. And ecm still does have counter play by single pilots you just have to perform it b4 getting jammed. Not to mention the other ewars just have the illusion of counter play. What's the counter play for tp anyway? Or td with td if you get close they just disrupt your tracking if you pull range they disrupt your range and they ate able to do this faster than you can pull range (assuming you are even in a ship capable of dictating the range)

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Aliventi
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#40 - 2016-04-23 23:23:21 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Other ewar also has a100% guaranty not everything needs to be the same. And ecm still does have counter play by single pilots you just have to perform it b4 getting jammed. Not to mention the other ewars just have the illusion of counter play. What's the counter play for tp anyway? Or td with td if you get close they just disrupt your tracking if you pull range they disrupt your range and they ate able to do this faster than you can pull range (assuming you are even in a ship capable of dictating the range)

With a TD I can switch ammo types for longer range or better tracking ammo.

You still don't understand counterability through piloting. I can fit an sensor booster with an ECCM script, I can fit two, and I can train my comps to V, and get the navy implant set that boosts sensor strength. That isn't counterability through piloting because I can do all that prep, still get jammed, and I am still unable to counter being jammed. I can do comparable prep work for damps. At least with damps I have the option to burn in or wait until I lock. I can do the same prep work for TDs. I still have the option to swap ammo types. Once jammed nothing I can do will counter it.