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So it is Nova (footage) ! What do you want in the FPS ?

Author
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
Already Replaced.
#41 - 2016-07-08 21:15:48 UTC
looks like many other games, it's all been done before and right now is a very bad time to be trying to compete with the shooters that are out there right now, they only thing that would make it different is a connection to our universe.

I'm sorry but if CCP cannot see this then it's already a lost battle.
Demica Diaz
SE-1
#42 - 2016-07-09 09:49:55 UTC
CCP is lagging way behind what is trending today in gaming. Just like with Dust, this is not going to be a success story and if CCP bosses cant see this then one is really out of the loop. With all those resources we could have had already WiS in EVE on top of current EVE changes. Imagine that. Straight
MidnightWyvern
The Bosena Accords
Warclone Initiative
#43 - 2016-07-11 16:39:24 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
So far doesn't looks like a game I would play. But then it's like super-early test build, so if it ends up being as fun as PS2 in the pre-lattice days, I will give it a shot at least. Bear


I love how we all thought lattice would help save the game, but they couldn't do even that right.

As far as Project Nova, you should see how many game ideas are getting discussed on the Dust Forums these days. More active than they've been in a while, at least as far as actual discussion and not ****posting.

Rattati Senpai noticed us! See you in the next FPS!

Alts: Saray Wyvern, Mobius Wyvern (Dust 514)

Pandora Carrollon
Provi Rapid Response
Apocalypse Now.
#44 - 2016-07-11 18:05:29 UTC
Look, I get the angst over this but with DUST they already had the engine and now it's just some spiff up and swap out. All of these TPS/FPS games are hyper similar and relatively easy to do once you have the foundation code operating, which CCP does.

Moving it out of New Eden will allow CCP to see if it can stand on it's own, and not impact EVE like DUST has/did. If it can stand on it's own and be successful, then you might get things like boarding actions and planetary landing actions back in EVE, bringing things full circle.

It's very important to understand that CCP must KEEP trying to make more games and get traction in the markets. If they don't, they will live and die by EVE's success and while not going down soon, they have to have more irons in the fire.

I do agree that going up against the big boys (HALO, COD, etc.) is not all that much of a guaranteed success story. In fact, it's probably another failure in the making but rolling the dice on this one is fairly cheap for what they have already in the code safe.

I also agree with the sentiment that they need to ask their EVE player base what a good bunch of ideas might be.

I, speaking only for myself, think that making a parallel "New Eden" that was more ground pounder and planetary colonization based, then merging them at some time in the future would be a good idea. You'd have a massive infusion of gameplay to EVE at some future time but being parallel in story and worlds, it would have no impact on EVE until it was fully operating at perfect capacity. That would fix the WiS conflict, the TPS/FPS side and PI/Colonization engines. EVE would be the monster space game with no rivals at all.
eveyn
#45 - 2016-07-11 21:37:44 UTC
Pandora Carrollon wrote:
Look, I get the angst over this but with DUST they already had the engine and now it's just some spiff up and swap out. All of these TPS/FPS games are hyper similar and relatively easy to do once you have the foundation code operating, which CCP does.

Moving it out of New Eden will allow CCP to see if it can stand on it's own, and not impact EVE like DUST has/did. If it can stand on it's own and be successful, then you might get things like boarding actions and planetary landing actions back in EVE, bringing things full circle.

It's very important to understand that CCP must KEEP trying to make more games and get traction in the markets. If they don't, they will live and die by EVE's success and while not going down soon, they have to have more irons in the fire.

I do agree that going up against the big boys (HALO, COD, etc.) is not all that much of a guaranteed success story. In fact, it's probably another failure in the making but rolling the dice on this one is fairly cheap for what they have already in the code safe.

I also agree with the sentiment that they need to ask their EVE player base what a good bunch of ideas might be.

I, speaking only for myself, think that making a parallel "New Eden" that was more ground pounder and planetary colonization based, then merging them at some time in the future would be a good idea. You'd have a massive infusion of gameplay to EVE at some future time but being parallel in story and worlds, it would have no impact on EVE until it was fully operating at perfect capacity. That would fix the WiS conflict, the TPS/FPS side and PI/Colonization engines. EVE would be the monster space game with no rivals at all.


Thing is, DUST514 was a highly customized UE3 build. Legacy code was of such a quality that not only did DUST514 fail (depending on your metric), but so did its intended successor, LEGION. NOVA, on the other hand, has been built clean using UE4 (if I remember correctly?). Based on FF videos, it appears as though some assets have been recycled, but apart from that and logic lessons learned of what not to do, NOVA is a brand apart. If you follow the DUST forums you will see a mixed reaction to this in that some are upset that things such as vehicles are not yet on the table while others are cautiously optimistic that working to nail the core FPS mechanics first is the right way to go.

Also, there was minimal connection to EVE as it was. The last I read, NOVA will be based on EVE's relative future. Personally I see no window for connection unless that has changed. Not much info is pouring out DUST-side, so who knows.

Personally, I think many players enjoyed at least parts of the game that did tie in to EVE (be it lore, mechanical, or silly little orbital strikes), but the connection was just too small and out of reach for the casual player base. I do wish they would go further into EVE, through NOVA. I'm not sure jumping out of the relatively small EVE-connection pond is wise, considering that the bigger pond is already full of games doing it better and with a long history of doing so. Why compete with that when they have an established player base here between EVE and the remaining Dusters willing to take the PC jump? If nothing else, it's a foot in the door.

Just IMHO.
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#46 - 2016-07-12 09:35:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
Pandora Carrollon wrote:
Look, I get the angst over this but with DUST they already had the engine and now it's just some spiff up and swap out. All of these TPS/FPS games are hyper similar and relatively easy to do once you have the foundation code operating, which CCP does.

Moving it out of New Eden will allow CCP to see if it can stand on it's own, and not impact EVE like DUST has/did. If it can stand on it's own and be successful, then you might get things like boarding actions and planetary landing actions back in EVE, bringing things full circle.

It's very important to understand that CCP must KEEP trying to make more games and get traction in the markets. If they don't, they will live and die by EVE's success and while not going down soon, they have to have more irons in the fire.

I do agree that going up against the big boys (HALO, COD, etc.) is not all that much of a guaranteed success story. In fact, it's probably another failure in the making but rolling the dice on this one is fairly cheap for what they have already in the code safe.

I also agree with the sentiment that they need to ask their EVE player base what a good bunch of ideas might be.

I, speaking only for myself, think that making a parallel "New Eden" that was more ground pounder and planetary colonization based, then merging them at some time in the future would be a good idea. You'd have a massive infusion of gameplay to EVE at some future time but being parallel in story and worlds, it would have no impact on EVE until it was fully operating at perfect capacity. That would fix the WiS conflict, the TPS/FPS side and PI/Colonization engines. EVE would be the monster space game with no rivals at all.


Speaking of colonization, Maybe allow Mercenaries to have planetary bases they can name, build, upgrade and defend, bases generating passive income over time and giving bonuses. Bases that have vulnerability windows and can be attacked and raided for resources, or destroyed, or even captured.
John Volan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#47 - 2016-07-12 11:19:54 UTC
Honestly I think they should be completely separate. It's only hurting them to try and twist the FPS genre to match up with the lore and setting of a third person space mmo and they are a big enough development studio to pursue two separate projects simultaneously. Rather than trying to leverage Eve's history they should focus on making a unique setting that's tailored to the kind of game they're developing. The greater the success of the project on it's own means more success for CCP as a whole and that's how Eve benefits in the long run.
MidnightWyvern
The Bosena Accords
Warclone Initiative
#48 - 2016-07-16 20:19:16 UTC
John Volan wrote:
Honestly I think they should be completely separate. It's only hurting them to try and twist the FPS genre to match up with the lore and setting of a third person space mmo and they are a big enough development studio to pursue two separate projects simultaneously. Rather than trying to leverage Eve's history they should focus on making a unique setting that's tailored to the kind of game they're developing. The greater the success of the project on it's own means more success for CCP as a whole and that's how Eve benefits in the long run.

The only thing that brought people into Dust 514 in the first place was the link to the New Eden universe. Without that, no one would even have played the game after they realized how poorly developed it was.

The whole point of having multiple games in the New Eden universe is to use that as a draw to bring in people who love the universe but want a different way to play within it. That's what EVE: Valkyrie is and the more people are actually finally receiving the Rifts they pre-ordered, the more people are experiencing Valkyrie and the player count keeps going up. I've now talked to several people who say that even with all the games that came with the Rift, Valkyrie represents most of their playtime.

Project Nova is going to start out as a 32-player game inside of EVE ships so it has a far deeper thematic tie to the EVE Universe than Dust 514 did. Everyone I talked to who tried Nova at FanFest said the gameplay flow already feels solid, and they're going to work on that as much as they can to ensure that the thematic link and the gameplay draw new players in and keep them invested.

Once they have that essential foundation in place, CCP Rattati said he's going to bring back planetary warfare, and we're already working on a lot of ideas to present to them as far as vehicle balance for this new game as soon as the new Community Crowdsource Trello goes live.

(Just a note: you know that public Trello board that Valkyrie has? They got the idea from CCP Rattati because that's how he collected and collated balance suggestions for Dust 514. Those hotfixes he made were what made the game playable up until the end.)

For all that some people are inevitably going to jump in here and talk about how CCP should completely divorce the game and make it a unique IP, or that they should scrap it completely because FPS players will poison their perfect EVE universe, I believe that finding ways to link Project Nova into EVE in a meaningful manner that is beneficial to both games can only help EVE Online in the long run.

New Eden can feel kind of huge and empty sometimes, but it'll feel a lot less empty with more people to share it with. Besides, the more customers CCP has, the more income they have to keep pushing the capabilities of their simulation. We could someday actually see gameplay like the trailer "The Prophecy".

Rattati Senpai noticed us! See you in the next FPS!

Alts: Saray Wyvern, Mobius Wyvern (Dust 514)

Emily Florence Nightingale
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#49 - 2016-07-17 09:47:43 UTC
as a long term Eve Player. some 12 years and a very keen Dust Bunnie (at least for a long while)

I can confirm that the lack of a PvE element really hurt the game.

CCP needs to understands that FPS games tend to favour short and casual game play, not the hours often invested in something like Eve itself.

Unless you were in one of the major try-hard corps which we even more elitist than Eve corps you were either always broke or unable to use your most shiney stuffs... and OMG, "the grind" was dreadful.

Unlike the Eve dev team, the Dust guys didn't seem to listen to the players either.

These things will need addressing before Nova becomes even close to "good"

also

for the love of baby cheesus...

FIRE FROM COVER...

my god, even GTA V has this.. if you are going to have the level of isk loss that eve has, then you need to have way more protection from game play.
MidnightWyvern
The Bosena Accords
Warclone Initiative
#50 - 2016-07-17 15:37:23 UTC
Emily Florence Nightingale wrote:
as a long term Eve Player. some 12 years and a very keen Dust Bunnie (at least for a long while)

I can confirm that the lack of a PvE element really hurt the game.

CCP needs to understands that FPS games tend to favour short and casual game play, not the hours often invested in something like Eve itself.

Unless you were in one of the major try-hard corps which we even more elitist than Eve corps you were either always broke or unable to use your most shiney stuffs... and OMG, "the grind" was dreadful.

Unlike the Eve dev team, the Dust guys didn't seem to listen to the players either.

These things will need addressing before Nova becomes even close to "good"

also

for the love of baby cheesus...

FIRE FROM COVER...

my god, even GTA V has this.. if you are going to have the level of isk loss that eve has, then you need to have way more protection from game play.

If you think about it, they could even achieve firing from cover by just having a leaning system like the original Crysis or Arma. Just lean left or right to shoot around cover. That way you don't have to deal with some kind of crappy "sticky cover" system which would probably just frustrate people.

Obviously the former Council of Planetary Management members are still under NDA as they are now being involved in Project Nova's development, but when asked about PvE they've been making responses with a positive lean even though they can't confirm or deny anything.

Actually, the Dust team had a basic version they were working on up until a few months before the shutdown that sadly never actually got finished. I would be VERY surprised if that wasn't a current priority for the team. After all, a big retainer for MMOs in general is having a variety of available experiences.

Rattati Senpai noticed us! See you in the next FPS!

Alts: Saray Wyvern, Mobius Wyvern (Dust 514)

Hal Morsh
Doomheim
#51 - 2016-07-17 18:39:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Hal Morsh
MidnightWyvern wrote:
I want the deepest possible connection to EVE Online. I want even players who come in not giving a **** to end up hopelessly hooked on the universe.

Also large-scale/open-world and to FINALLY GET SOME JETS AT SOME POINT. Been waiting since FF2012.



I hope one day EVE teaches me something HELPFULL in life at some point. Still haven't figured it out.

As for the FPS? Yeah I rock at another pc shooter involving jetpacks. Look the hell out with Nova.

Oh, I perfectly understand, Hal Morsh — a mission like this requires courage, skill, and heroism… qualities you are clearly lacking. Have you forgotten you're one of the bloody immortals!?

Hal Morsh
Doomheim
#52 - 2016-07-17 18:42:31 UTC
Nana Skalski wrote:
Pandora Carrollon wrote:
Look, I get the angst over this but with DUST they already had the engine and now it's just some spiff up and swap out. All of these TPS/FPS games are hyper similar and relatively easy to do once you have the foundation code operating, which CCP does.

Moving it out of New Eden will allow CCP to see if it can stand on it's own, and not impact EVE like DUST has/did. If it can stand on it's own and be successful, then you might get things like boarding actions and planetary landing actions back in EVE, bringing things full circle.

It's very important to understand that CCP must KEEP trying to make more games and get traction in the markets. If they don't, they will live and die by EVE's success and while not going down soon, they have to have more irons in the fire.

I do agree that going up against the big boys (HALO, COD, etc.) is not all that much of a guaranteed success story. In fact, it's probably another failure in the making but rolling the dice on this one is fairly cheap for what they have already in the code safe.

I also agree with the sentiment that they need to ask their EVE player base what a good bunch of ideas might be.

I, speaking only for myself, think that making a parallel "New Eden" that was more ground pounder and planetary colonization based, then merging them at some time in the future would be a good idea. You'd have a massive infusion of gameplay to EVE at some future time but being parallel in story and worlds, it would have no impact on EVE until it was fully operating at perfect capacity. That would fix the WiS conflict, the TPS/FPS side and PI/Colonization engines. EVE would be the monster space game with no rivals at all.


Speaking of colonization, Maybe allow Mercenaries to have planetary bases they can name, build, upgrade and defend, bases generating passive income over time and giving bonuses. Bases that have vulnerability windows and can be attacked and raided for resources, or destroyed, or even captured.


Have it mess with PI too, then things'll get interesting.

Oh, I perfectly understand, Hal Morsh — a mission like this requires courage, skill, and heroism… qualities you are clearly lacking. Have you forgotten you're one of the bloody immortals!?

MidnightWyvern
The Bosena Accords
Warclone Initiative
#53 - 2016-07-17 21:16:25 UTC
Hal Morsh wrote:
Nana Skalski wrote:
Pandora Carrollon wrote:
Look, I get the angst over this but with DUST they already had the engine and now it's just some spiff up and swap out. All of these TPS/FPS games are hyper similar and relatively easy to do once you have the foundation code operating, which CCP does.

Moving it out of New Eden will allow CCP to see if it can stand on it's own, and not impact EVE like DUST has/did. If it can stand on it's own and be successful, then you might get things like boarding actions and planetary landing actions back in EVE, bringing things full circle.

It's very important to understand that CCP must KEEP trying to make more games and get traction in the markets. If they don't, they will live and die by EVE's success and while not going down soon, they have to have more irons in the fire.

I do agree that going up against the big boys (HALO, COD, etc.) is not all that much of a guaranteed success story. In fact, it's probably another failure in the making but rolling the dice on this one is fairly cheap for what they have already in the code safe.

I also agree with the sentiment that they need to ask their EVE player base what a good bunch of ideas might be.

I, speaking only for myself, think that making a parallel "New Eden" that was more ground pounder and planetary colonization based, then merging them at some time in the future would be a good idea. You'd have a massive infusion of gameplay to EVE at some future time but being parallel in story and worlds, it would have no impact on EVE until it was fully operating at perfect capacity. That would fix the WiS conflict, the TPS/FPS side and PI/Colonization engines. EVE would be the monster space game with no rivals at all.


Speaking of colonization, Maybe allow Mercenaries to have planetary bases they can name, build, upgrade and defend, bases generating passive income over time and giving bonuses. Bases that have vulnerability windows and can be attacked and raided for resources, or destroyed, or even captured.


Have it mess with PI too, then things'll get interesting.

You know the crazy part? That was the whole point!

Way back when, the idea was that Dust players would be fighting to capture or defend EVE PI colonies, but I would imagine some of the protests put up by potential players that they'd just be second-class citizens being thrown into meat grinders for the benefit of EVE players made them change that concept up a bit.

Regardless, that was the original concept.

Rattati Senpai noticed us! See you in the next FPS!

Alts: Saray Wyvern, Mobius Wyvern (Dust 514)

Eldurian Gavriel
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#54 - 2016-10-08 00:24:40 UTC
Things DUST 514 Did Wrong:

1. Promised more than they delivered: Dust 514 wasn't judged on the basis of what it actually was but on how far it fell short of what it promised to be. People wanted one universe but the presence of orbital bombardments really failed to create that feel in any meaningful way.

2. They released on the wrong platform and never updated it for PS4: DUST 514 severely limited it's audience. If you didn't own a PS3 you couldn't play. Even after the release of the PS4. PCs have a larger audience, and the change in console generations wouldn't have been an issue.

3. Took too long to release racial variants of gear: For the longest time you couldn't play a Minmatar heavy or an Amarr scout. While that was eventually fixed there were still no Minmatar or Amarr vehicles, Amarr heavy weapons etc. when my PS3 bit the dust. Which was at least a good year or two after the game's release. It made the game feel horribly half-finished and the slow progress in fixing it grew distressing over time.

What Dust 514 Did Right:

1. Highly customizable builds: I've played other FPSes with customization such a Planetside and none of them hold a candle to Dust 514. Dust 514 had a much variety in what you can do with a suit as EVE has in what you can do with a spaceship. I LOVED that aspect of Dust 514 and it kept me coming back for more.

2. Well paced combat: In a market oversaturated with FPSes where a couple stray bullets from an SMG mean instant death and everything is about who sees who first Dust 514 stood out as a game with some really epic fights that weren't always over in half a second. The pacing of this game was perfect IMO.

3. The ISK factor: I carefully considered the ISK cost of every item that went into my builds, how expensive of a build I would use for different situations, and when it was worth it to call down an expensive vehicle. I've never experienced anything like that in an FPS before and it was AWESOME.

What I Want From Project Nova

I want Dust 514 back. I bought a PS3 just to play the damn thing and never regretted that decision even though Dust 514 was the only game I had ever played on it when it met an unfortunate watery end. It was an FPS experience unlike any other and the standard by which I now measure other FPSes. (All of which fall short)

Just this time, do it on the right system, don't give people unrealistic expectations of what it will be, and get me a damn Minmatar HAV.
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2016-10-08 03:30:58 UTC
Framerate looks better than captains quarters (then again, wasn't hard to improve on 3 fps)

.....

but dare I say it doesn't seem to have that Doom or Quake 1 quality to it? It looks ... sluggish. Too much eye candy and fog and complexities, not enough DAKKADAKKA y'know what I'm saying?
Algarion Getz
Aideron Corp
#56 - 2016-10-08 15:14:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Algarion Getz
CCP has already made a big mistake by making DUST514 PS3 exclusive, i hope they dont cripple their next FPS game Nova with another stupid decision. No one needs generic FPS games anymore. The 90s are over. If they design Nova to be just another shooter, with nothing special, it will fail like all the other generic FPS games in the last ~15 years.

The concept of Legion and "1 universe, 1 war" was unique and very promising, i dont know why they have abandoned it.
Eldurian Gavriel
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#57 - 2016-10-08 18:01:22 UTC
I am actually very glad they aren't using "One Universe, One War" as a selling point. DUST 514 was anything but a generic shooter. It had some of the most innovative concepts I've ever seen in an FPS.

My hope with project Nova is that they will pick up where DUST 514 left of and deliver us first and foremost, a great shooter like DUST 514. Let people judge Nova on it's quality as a shooter and THEN, once you have a strong foundation to build from, resume the "One Universe, One War" thing.

The Dev team might have the "One Universe, One War" thing in mind the whole time it's being built, but as far as the public is concerned keep us focused on what is in front of us and not on how what is in front of us isn't what the game will deliver 5 to 10 years from now.
MidnightWyvern
The Bosena Accords
Warclone Initiative
#58 - 2016-10-12 15:26:57 UTC
Eldurian Gavriel wrote:
I am actually very glad they aren't using "One Universe, One War" as a selling point. DUST 514 was anything but a generic shooter. It had some of the most innovative concepts I've ever seen in an FPS.

My hope with project Nova is that they will pick up where DUST 514 left of and deliver us first and foremost, a great shooter like DUST 514. Let people judge Nova on it's quality as a shooter and THEN, once you have a strong foundation to build from, resume the "One Universe, One War" thing.

The Dev team might have the "One Universe, One War" thing in mind the whole time it's being built, but as far as the public is concerned keep us focused on what is in front of us and not on how what is in front of us isn't what the game will deliver 5 to 10 years from now.

Well said.

Rattati Senpai noticed us! See you in the next FPS!

Alts: Saray Wyvern, Mobius Wyvern (Dust 514)

Gogela
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#59 - 2016-10-12 20:21:02 UTC
Eldurian Gavriel wrote:
I am actually very glad they aren't using "One Universe, One War" as a selling point. DUST 514 was anything but a generic shooter. It had some of the most innovative concepts I've ever seen in an FPS.

My hope with project Nova is that they will pick up where DUST 514 left of and deliver us first and foremost, a great shooter like DUST 514. Let people judge Nova on it's quality as a shooter and THEN, once you have a strong foundation to build from, resume the "One Universe, One War" thing.

The Dev team might have the "One Universe, One War" thing in mind the whole time it's being built, but as far as the public is concerned keep us focused on what is in front of us and not on how what is in front of us isn't what the game will deliver 5 to 10 years from now.

I disagree. DUST was not a great FPS. It was clunky... the player control was bad and the graphics were marginal at best. I tried to get into it and put in many hours. It was never meaningfully connected to EvE... save maybe that orbital strike mechanic but even then it wasn't worth it. I was really bummed out by the whole thing. They are really going to need to take it up a notch to get me over the feeling of being burned by DUST. I'll wait and see...

Signatures should be used responsibly...

Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#60 - 2016-10-12 22:03:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
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