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Citadel Fitting

Author
Primus Accensi
POS Party
Ember Sands
#1 - 2016-04-15 23:22:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Primus Accensi
This post is my extremely scatterbrained thoughts on citadel DPS, ewar, and the lack of fitting variety. This post is focusing on mediums and larges.

Variety

Currently, there isnt much of this. Your options for highs are filling your hardpoints, then neuts and maybe point defense batteries (if you rig for it on your large).

Mids at the moment consist of webs scrams paints and nothing else, the other modules are way too weak.

Lows are limited to BCUs, and missile enhancers, fitting mods are never needed and never worth it.

Combat rigs are also super limited. For a medium, you fit one of each missile application rig and one locking rig. For a large, you fit missile, locking, and maybe point defense. The ewar and neut ones are either niche or under powered.

Ewar:
The good:
Paints are new and give a 72% sig modifier with stacking penalties, great for missile application.

Webs slow 70%, pretty happy with these.

Scram is a scram, 10 points isn't bad, but its not enough to hold a super unless you have 3.

The bad:
Damps for citadels do 31% unscripted (62 scripted), Pos Damps used to do 50% each, and could not be scripted (65% with faction). Jams were almost always a better choice for poses though.

Jams have a unscripted strength of 5, and a scripted strength of 10. For reference, old pos jams had a base of 15 and a racial of 45 (25/76 faction). They are exceptionally weak.

Tracking disrupts do 34.5% unscripted (appears to be just guns at the moment), and I see absolutely no reason to use them, your sig is near infinite and you can only damp one ship.

(Have not had the chance to try out an XL, frankly not interested in them)

Damage

A Astrahaus fit for maximum subcap DPS does:
Fighters: 2025 from 3 templar wings, + 2 heavy/support squads.
Missiles (2 BCUS, highest damage): 1177 DPS, 353 medium damage and 176 low.

Total of 3202 DPS

A Fortizar fit for maximum subcap DPS does:
Fighters (Amarr for best mix of application/dps): 2700 DPS from 4 templar squads (Rocket salvo included) + 1 support/heavy squad.
Missiles (3 BCUS, Highest damage missiles): 1889 DPS from high, Medium and low damage missiles are 556 dps and 283 dps.

So a total of 4596 DPS with some really questionable application (Even with dual web + paint). So you end up paying 10-15 times as much for a citadel that is twice as vulnerable with very little dps increase. You do however get better slot layout, a lot more ehp, and a market, but you don't gain much in defense. A single triage repair cycle is enough to tank a large indefinitely.


My suggestions:

Large DPS up across the board, they need to be able to defend themselves.
Ewar made useful
More low slot options then 2 missile mods
More module choices (see below)
Make your own bombs do less damage to your own fighters
Make it so that a defense fleet holding your citadel is benefited by your citadel in a meaningful way.


Modules I'd like to see added: Remote reps, remote cap, burst projectors to l/xl citadels, fighter enhancement mods, aoe support mods (remote sebo/remote tracking comp, ect) , mid range grappler (30km optimal?), more choice in combat related rigs, capacitor booster/rechargers/flux, A low slot or rig that trades tank for damage or damage for tank, remote resistance enhancer, Suppression module (Hic points + jams + webs to 0 + paints a target for a short time with a long cooldown. Requires a lot of cap and fitting.)
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2016-04-15 23:53:36 UTC
If you're going against triage, fit anti-cap launchers and your Large Citadel will do something like 40k DPS. And you'll still do a few thousand DPS against battleships. It's a swarm of T2 logi cruiser that you'd have to worry about then.

I agree in that I don't understand the point of bothering with weapon disruption mids on a citadel.

Doomsdays for XLs already exist.

I'd be interested to seeing Citadels getting a 5% link bonus per skill level, once links are on-grid only. Or maybe even 7.5% per skill level.
Primus Accensi
POS Party
Ember Sands
#3 - 2016-04-16 00:08:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Primus Accensi
Eli Stan wrote:
IAnd you'll still do a few thousand DPS against battleships.

I agree in that I don't understand the point of bothering with weapon disruption mids on a citadel.



15k explosion radius for anti capital missiles, not too great even against web/painted targets. Ill test this out.

I meant titan ones, but I guess your right. Removed that bit.
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2016-04-16 00:44:18 UTC
Primus Accensi wrote:
Eli Stan wrote:
IAnd you'll still do a few thousand DPS against battleships.

I agree in that I don't understand the point of bothering with weapon disruption mids on a citadel.



15k explosion radius for anti capital missiles, not too great even against web/painted targets. Ill test this out.

I meant titan ones, but I guess your right. Removed that bit.


Yeah, try it out. With a web and two TPs, the anti-cap missiles will two-shot a frig, maybe three. Which is crazy underpowered for a 40k DPS weapon system, but it's still a large engagement envelope. The only reason I see going with anti-subcap missiles is to perhaps save costs - I don't know how much more expensive the anti-cap weapons will be, but they kill sub caps almost as well as the anti-subcap weapons. Of course, these are test server numbers, so could change significantly before deployment. We're mostly is bug-hunt mode now I think, rather than balance testing.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#5 - 2016-04-16 13:33:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
The pos damps and jams were to strong imo the 10/20 they ate at now is much more balanced for ecm same with how damps work
There are also a lot of mods missing like the tractor repulser and fighter damage mods

As for fitting mods these will be needed if you want to max out and use all of your service slots it's just atm there are only 3 in the game. Once manufacturing reactions and research come out these things are going to be starved for fitting
Lugh Crow-Slave
#6 - 2016-04-16 13:34:58 UTC
Primus Accensi wrote:
Eli Stan wrote:
IAnd you'll still do a few thousand DPS against battleships.

I agree in that I don't understand the point of bothering with weapon disruption mids on a citadel.



15k explosion radius for anti capital missiles, not too great even against web/painted targets. Ill test this out.

I meant titan ones, but I guess your right. Removed that bit.


The application numbers are not final and Tbh look like place holders. Hell the super cap missiles apply better than the capital ones
Ligraph
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2016-04-18 20:28:32 UTC
Something that could be neat (but probably hard to implement) is giving citadels the ability to make bookmarks anywhere on-grid using the new tactical UI. It would give defenders the advantage of warpins and perches, and it kind of makes sense with the lore.

Actually, this would be interesting for any command ship.