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Marauders are now useless

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PAPULA
The Chodak
Void Alliance
#1 - 2016-04-15 13:34:29 UTC  |  Edited by: PAPULA
I tested paladin today in normal level 4 mission.

Due to bastion mode now has 5% chance of being tracking disrupted/scrammed/jammed/painted ..... i get tracking disrupted from sansha npc's all the time.
99% of the time i am tracking distrupted while in bastion mode.
This happens because npc's are cheating so that 5% is more like 70%...


Please CCP make it 100% resistance or remove bastion module.
Evil

Image:
http://www.netsky.org/eve/Bastion95Percent.png
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#2 - 2016-04-15 16:31:05 UTC
There is a bug that currently causes some NPC effects to ignore ewar resistances. The intended behavior isn't a 5% chance to be tracking disrupted/scrammed/jammed/painted, it's that those effects would only apply at 5% strength (making it very easy to simply ignore them in most situations).

As a workaround until we have this defect fixed, we are re-enabling the old 100% block on offensive modifiers against ships in bastion mode. This will then be adjusted back to the 95% resistance once we have the NPC effects working correctly.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#3 - 2016-04-15 17:11:58 UTC
Maybe I'm missing something here... but what is 5% of a scram?

Doesn't this neutralise dropping out of Bastion and warping / MJDing before someone tries to re-apply their previously-ineffective scrambler?
PAPULA
The Chodak
Void Alliance
#4 - 2016-04-15 17:43:53 UTC  |  Edited by: PAPULA
CCP Fozzie wrote:
There is a bug that currently causes some NPC effects to ignore ewar resistances. The intended behavior isn't a 5% chance to be tracking disrupted/scrammed/jammed/painted, it's that those effects would only apply at 5% strength (making it very easy to simply ignore them in most situations).

As a workaround until we have this defect fixed, we are re-enabling the old 100% block on offensive modifiers against ships in bastion mode. This will then be adjusted back to the 95% resistance once we have the NPC effects working correctly.

Thanks for reply Fozzie.

I just hope i don't get scrammed/webbed/jammed/tracking disrupted/sensor dampened in mission with marauder while in bastion and then one mission takes me 40 minutes because i can't lock anything.
Also why not leave them all to 100% for npc's only ?

Sentient Blade wrote:
Maybe I'm missing something here... but what is 5% of a scram?

Doesn't this neutralise dropping out of Bastion and warping / MJDing before someone tries to re-apply their previously-ineffective scrambler?

On sisi currently, any npc can do ewar to you even if you are in bastion.
That means missions can take very long time if you get perma jammed / perma ewar'ed.

5% scram ... i don't know.
Scram is either on or off there's no in between..
2891
The Chodak
Void Alliance
#5 - 2016-04-15 18:34:55 UTC
Agree with PAPULA.

I think players won't run missions any more due lower isk gain per time.More players will scam, gank and declare high sec wars, because they found out more profitable doing that.
High sec wars for no reason should be also limited. People can not run high sec missions anymore!
Conjaq
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2016-04-15 19:54:58 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
There is a bug that currently causes some NPC effects to ignore ewar resistances. The intended behavior isn't a 5% chance to be tracking disrupted/scrammed/jammed/painted, it's that those effects would only apply at 5% strength (making it very easy to simply ignore them in most situations).

As a workaround until we have this defect fixed, we are re-enabling the old 100% block on offensive modifiers against ships in bastion mode. This will then be adjusted back to the 95% resistance once we have the NPC effects working correctly.


How does a jam only apply at 5%?

(fyi this is a bad change, ewar on npc's are horrible for some factions, and completely ignoreable on others...)

Lugh Crow-Slave
#7 - 2016-04-15 22:28:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Conjaq wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
There is a bug that currently causes some NPC effects to ignore ewar resistances. The intended behavior isn't a 5% chance to be tracking disrupted/scrammed/jammed/painted, it's that those effects would only apply at 5% strength (making it very easy to simply ignore them in most situations).

As a workaround until we have this defect fixed, we are re-enabling the old 100% block on offensive modifiers against ships in bastion mode. This will then be adjusted back to the 95% resistance once we have the NPC effects working correctly.


How does a jam only apply at 5%?

(fyi this is a bad change, ewar on npc's are horrible for some factions, and completely ignoreable on others...)




have you guys just not looked at the stats?


its not a flat 95% resistance to all e-war

its 95% to sensor damps weapon disruption remote assistants and tp. so it just does not resist scram and it does not give a 95% reduction to ECM it gives a 1k% to sensor strengths

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
PAPULA
The Chodak
Void Alliance
#8 - 2016-04-15 22:45:32 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
have you guys just not looked at the stats?


its not a flat 95% resistance to all e-war

its 95% to sensor damps weapon disruption remote assistants and tp. so it just does not resist scram and it does not give a 95% reduction to ECM it gives a 1k% to sensor strengths

If that's the case and it will stay this way then bastion mode is useless.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#9 - 2016-04-16 00:24:49 UTC
Ouch.... CCP, Give Marauders some use outside of Bastion mode if you are stripping away their immunity. They are barely better than T1 Battleships as it is, in some cases T1 Battleships apply more DPS. So buff their base outside Bastion stats please since you are making Bastion weaker.
PAPULA
The Chodak
Void Alliance
#10 - 2016-04-16 01:47:28 UTC
I really hope we can have same bastion immunity as it is now on TQ, otherwise faction battleships will be 1000 times better.
Jonas Kanjus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2016-04-16 05:41:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonas Kanjus
Related to Marauders.

Why is there a weapon aggression timer when using Bastion module? This is my first time using Bastion mode since Marauders were introduced.

My start date to EVE Online: 6/25/2005 8:24:57 AM UTC
PAPULA
The Chodak
Void Alliance
#12 - 2016-04-16 09:14:24 UTC
Jonas Kanjus wrote:
Related to Marauders.

Why is there a weapon aggression timer when using Bastion module? This is my first time using Bastion mode since Marauders were introduced.

So you can't do station games with bastion on.
Blink
Lugh Crow-Slave
#13 - 2016-04-16 13:27:22 UTC
PAPULA wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
have you guys just not looked at the stats?


its not a flat 95% resistance to all e-war

its 95% to sensor damps weapon disruption remote assistants and tp. so it just does not resist scram and it does not give a 95% reduction to ECM it gives a 1k% to sensor strengths

If that's the case and it will stay this way then bastion mode is useless.


How are they useless? You may as well be immune to ecm and only taking 5%from other forms of ewar is not that bad you can also now revive 5% of friendly assistance


With that said I do feel all siege mods should keep their immunity it's probably the biggest bonuse you get fit the trade off of being stuck

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Lugh Crow-Slave
#14 - 2016-04-16 13:29:57 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
There is a bug that currently causes some NPC effects to ignore ewar resistances. The intended behavior isn't a 5% chance to be tracking disrupted/scrammed/jammed/painted, it's that those effects would only apply at 5% strength (making it very easy to simply ignore them in most situations).

As a workaround until we have this defect fixed, we are re-enabling the old 100% block on offensive modifiers against ships in bastion mode. This will then be adjusted back to the 95% resistance once we have the NPC effects working correctly.


If you feel it can just be ignored for the most part why not just keep the immunity

It was supers and titans people didn't like being 100% immune not dreads and Marauders

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
PAPULA
The Chodak
Void Alliance
#15 - 2016-04-16 18:36:17 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
There is a bug that currently causes some NPC effects to ignore ewar resistances. The intended behavior isn't a 5% chance to be tracking disrupted/scrammed/jammed/painted, it's that those effects would only apply at 5% strength (making it very easy to simply ignore them in most situations).

As a workaround until we have this defect fixed, we are re-enabling the old 100% block on offensive modifiers against ships in bastion mode. This will then be adjusted back to the 95% resistance once we have the NPC effects working correctly.


If you feel it can just be ignored for the most part why not just keep the immunity

It was supers and titans people didn't like being 100% immune not dreads and Marauders

I agree.
Dreads and marauders get stuck for duration of the timer, so they should keep 100% immunity, after all madauder will die very fast if you try to pvp with it in bastion mode.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#16 - 2016-04-16 20:02:12 UTC
PAPULA wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
There is a bug that currently causes some NPC effects to ignore ewar resistances. The intended behavior isn't a 5% chance to be tracking disrupted/scrammed/jammed/painted, it's that those effects would only apply at 5% strength (making it very easy to simply ignore them in most situations).

As a workaround until we have this defect fixed, we are re-enabling the old 100% block on offensive modifiers against ships in bastion mode. This will then be adjusted back to the 95% resistance once we have the NPC effects working correctly.


If you feel it can just be ignored for the most part why not just keep the immunity

It was supers and titans people didn't like being 100% immune not dreads and Marauders

I agree.
Dreads and marauders get stuck for duration of the timer, so they should keep 100% immunity, after all madauder will die very fast if you try to pvp with it in bastion mode.



O.of have you never pvped with Marauders? It's freaking awesome and with the right support you're a god.

.... getting method down can be expensive though

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
PAPULA
The Chodak
Void Alliance
#17 - 2016-04-16 21:08:42 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
O.of have you never pvped with Marauders? It's freaking awesome and with the right support you're a god.

.... getting method down can be expensive though

Yea with the right support...
Capital fleet is also very good if you have support, if you are alone titan in space, battlecruisers will kill you.

If you go in alone with a marauder and 8 battleships attack you, neut you, you will die.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#18 - 2016-04-17 04:09:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Nevyn Auscent
PAPULA wrote:

Yea with the right support...
Capital fleet is also very good if you have support, if you are alone titan in space, battlecruisers will kill you.

If you go in alone with a marauder and 8 battleships attack you, neut you, you will die.

There are actually a couple of good solo PvP Marauder set ups, Golem & Vargur, but they are based around the 2*XL-ASB set up from what I know, and how crazy overpowered multiple ASB's are to start with, and very much based on knowing your targets before you drop your marauder on them. And you can do the 2*XL-ASB set up on non marauders and get also insane results. So it's not the fact it's a marauder so much as ASB's.

However the removal of immunity from the Bastion massively shifts things, especially in PvE where you can no longer use Bastion to drop points on you temporarily and take advantage of the delay re-establishing it after Bastion finishes to warp out of a site.

Basically, Marauders need a compensating buff for when they aren't in Bastion, because they sure weren't overpowered compared to the T1 BS, if anything Marauders were totally underwhelming for a T2 Battleship.
PAPULA
The Chodak
Void Alliance
#19 - 2016-04-17 07:52:09 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

if anything Marauders were totally underwhelming for a T2 Battleship.

Yea they still are, faction battleships are way better, only good thing about marauders is that they're 100% immune to ewar.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#20 - 2016-04-17 11:22:05 UTC
PAPULA wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

if anything Marauders were totally underwhelming for a T2 Battleship.

Yea they still are, faction battleships are way better, only good thing about marauders is that they're 100% immune to ewar.

oh i'm not arguing this point i dont think anyone would disagree

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
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