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Parts are rare in eve, what to do if u are indy??????
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Ssj4gogeta
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#1 - 2011-12-17 21:30:16 UTC
Now i sort of just started doing manu and prod.....

Currently im in the process to make same T2 Frigs, i have all the material yo start apart from a few items thats really scares.

In order for me to complete this manu i need Esoteric Ship Data, i have the bpc!

The problem comes in at the material needed to produce this :

Armor Blocks
Computer Chips
Electronic Link
Power Couplings
Spare Parts

I search the market and aonly a few of each was available, nothing on contracts, there is no bpc or bpo for this, i did some recearch on PI and found nothing on how to make these.

Does anybody has some light on this subject?

So my question to Eve (CCP) is the following, if there is no more of a specific item and there is no bpo or bpc to make this, how will I succeed in Production and Manufacturing.

Regards
SS
Wyke Mossari
Staner Industries
#2 - 2011-12-17 21:59:26 UTC
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#3 - 2011-12-17 22:05:08 UTC
Armor Blocks
http://eve-marketdata.com/price_check.php?step=Show&type_id=21590&region_id=10000002&type=sell

Computer Chips
http://eve-marketdata.com/price_check.php?step=Show&type_id=21591&region_id=10000002&type=sell

(repeat for the others)

Basically, you have to go to one of the major trade hubs (Jita, Rens, Dodixie, Amarr) for stuff like that.
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#4 - 2011-12-17 22:09:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Akita T
And there are BPOs for them sold by NPCs.
You just need to be in the right regions to see them offered for sale.

To get the materials needed to build those though, you will need the output of advanced POS reactors, which can only operate outside of highsec.
Then again, you can just buy them on the market in Jita, that's what most people do.

Whoops, nevermind, I accidentally read that as T2 component blueprints, but you were talking about other parts.

Akita T evewiki profile | | | Build your own EVE-ready PC
Xuzi
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2011-12-18 01:20:20 UTC
The Esoteric Ship Data Interface isn't consumed in the invention process, so you might be better off saving some time and just buying it off the market and possibly selling the BPC you have. Its a one time expense and you can move on with your inventions, which is the hard part.

I highly suggest you do a lot more reading about T2 invention and manufacturing as it sounds like you are pretty new to the whole manufacturing thing. T2 production is one of the most complex things to do in eve and its easy to lose money if you don't do the math first.

If you haven't made a spreadsheet for the T2 frigate you want to make, then its more than likely you've already failed to notice the most important aspect of T2 production. This is the fact that many T2 items are unprofitable to invent and manufacture due to some people with Blueprint Originals already meeting the current in game demand.

I suggest you start out with something easier like a T2 module or drone.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#6 - 2011-12-18 12:54:47 UTC
Xuzi wrote:

If you haven't made a spreadsheet for the T2 frigate you want to make, then its more than likely you've already failed to notice the most important aspect of T2 production. This is the fact that many T2 items are unprofitable to invent and manufacture due to some people with Blueprint Originals already meeting the current in game demand.


While there are some items where this is true:

1. BPOs themselves are not a problem (if they weren't in game, the items would most likely be really expensive and/or completely un-used).
2. The item in question might just suck right now.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Xuzi
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2011-12-19 00:27:49 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
Xuzi wrote:

If you haven't made a spreadsheet for the T2 frigate you want to make, then its more than likely you've already failed to notice the most important aspect of T2 production. This is the fact that many T2 items are unprofitable to invent and manufacture due to some people with Blueprint Originals already meeting the current in game demand.

While there are some items where this is true:

1. BPOs themselves are not a problem (if they weren't in game, the items would most likely be really expensive and/or completely un-used).
2. The item in question might just suck right now.

I'm just stating the facts to the best of my understanding, not arguing the pros or cons of BPOs. However, I do disagree with pretty much everything you said here. Not intending to be antagonistic, but I feel like your statements are missing the mark.

"Some" is an understatement. Its not hard to find items that are completely unprofitable to produce through invention. Not hard at all. "Some" makes it sound like its unlikely that you'll pick one if you pick an item at random to invent. That isn't the reality.

When it comes to prices, while you might be partially correct when it comes to low demand items, it would be completely opposite for high demand items. Without invention, high demand items would be much much much more expensive. Without BPO's low demand items would only be moderately more expensive based on the extra cost of inventing them.

Take for example the Hobgoblin II and the Hornet II drone. If there were no Hornet II BPOs, they would cost approximately the same as a Hobgoblin II (or a bit more due to lack of demand) because they have almost exactly the same production requirements, but if there was no invention Hobgoblin II would be significantly more expensive due to demand far exceeding supply. Some people would pay the higher price, some people wouldn't and use tech1 instead. At some point an equilibrium between supply and demand would be reached. Its hard to know what that number would be, but I'd guess it would be well over 1m isk if not much more.

As for the tech2 items with low demand, including the subset that "suck", the existence of BPO's does allow them to be on the market for cheaper than they would be through invention, but this moderately lower price only has a small impact on consumption. Supply side economics is complete crap. Demand drives markets, demand is king.

I have no qualms with the limited number of T2 BPOs still in the game, but thats because I like math and spreadsheets don't trouble me. It allows me to be profitable while other poor suckers get the screws put to them. However, I do pity the poor saps that are getting their wallets ganked when they assume the same rules are being used to create all the different T2 items in the game. How would they know otherwise unless we mention it from time to time in the forums.

Short story is, if you want to produce T2 items, you gotta do your math.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#8 - 2011-12-19 00:42:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Velicitia
Xuzi wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
Xuzi wrote:

If you haven't made a spreadsheet for the T2 frigate you want to make, then its more than likely you've already failed to notice the most important aspect of T2 production. This is the fact that many T2 items are unprofitable to invent and manufacture due to some people with Blueprint Originals already meeting the current in game demand.

While there are some items where this is true:

1. BPOs themselves are not a problem (if they weren't in game, the items would most likely be really expensive and/or completely un-used).
2. The item in question might just suck right now.

I'm just stating the facts to the best of my understanding, not arguing the pros or cons of BPOs. However, I do disagree with pretty much everything you said here. Not intending to be antagonistic, but I feel like your statements are missing the mark.

"Some" is an understatement. Its not hard to find items that are completely unprofitable to produce through invention. Not hard at all. "Some" makes it sound like its unlikely that you'll pick one if you pick an item at random to invent. That isn't the reality.

When it comes to prices, while you might be partially correct when it comes to low demand items, it would be completely opposite for high demand items. Without invention, high demand items would be much much much more expensive. Without BPO's low demand items would only be moderately more expensive based on the extra cost of inventing them.

Take for example the Hobgoblin II and the Hornet II drone. If there were no Hornet II BPOs, they would cost approximately the same as a Hobgoblin II (or a bit more due to lack of demand) because they have almost exactly the same production requirements, but if there was no invention Hobgoblin II would be significantly more expensive due to demand far exceeding supply. Some people would pay the higher price, some people wouldn't and use tech1 instead. At some point an equilibrium between supply and demand would be reached. Its hard to know what that number would be, but I'd guess it would be well over 1m isk if not much more.

As for the tech2 items with low demand, including the subset that "suck", the existence of BPO's does allow them to be on the market for cheaper than they would be through invention, but this moderately lower price only has a small impact on consumption. Supply side economics is complete crap. Demand drives markets, demand is king.

I have no qualms with the limited number of T2 BPOs still in the game, but thats because I like math and spreadsheets don't trouble me. It allows me to be profitable while other poor suckers get the screws put to them. However, I do pity the poor saps that are getting their wallets ganked when they assume the same rules are being used to create all the different T2 items in the game. How would they know otherwise unless we mention it from time to time in the forums.

Short story is, if you want to produce T2 items, you gotta do your math.


yeah, you're right ... was just trying to head off any "T2 BPOs are unfair!" whines ... we get enough of those already.Cool

TBH, I intended to take out that first line, and got ganked when trying to edit the post (so said **** it)

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Xuzi
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2011-12-19 01:10:30 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
just trying to head off any "T2 BPOs are unfair!" whines ... we get enough of those already.Cool
Totally on board with that. They are no more unfair than a lot of other things in the game and less game breaking than a lot of them too. My primary problem with them is the lack of transparency to the new player, but then again, this is eve. Learning this game is like chiseling through onyx.
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
#10 - 2011-12-19 13:33:37 UTC
Akita T wrote:
And there are BPOs for them sold by NPCs.
You just need to be in the right regions to see them offered for sale.

To get the materials needed to build those though, you will need the output of advanced POS reactors, which can only operate outside of highsec.
Then again, you can just buy them on the market in Jita, that's what most people do.

Akita, are you drunk or trolling?

The items listed in the OP drop from exploration sites (radars, if memory serves correctly), they have no BPOs, they are not related to moon goo in any way.

What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644
Nevryn Takis
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2011-12-19 17:52:24 UTC
Ssj4gogeta wrote:
Now i sort of just started doing manu and prod.....

Currently im in the process to make same T2 Frigs, i have all the material yo start apart from a few items thats really scares.

In order for me to complete this manu i need Esoteric Ship Data, i have the bpc!

The problem comes in at the material needed to produce this :

Armor Blocks
Computer Chips
Electronic Link
Power Couplings
Spare Parts

I search the market and aonly a few of each was available, nothing on contracts, there is no bpc or bpo for this, i did some recearch on PI and found nothing on how to make these.

Does anybody has some light on this subject?

So my question to Eve (CCP) is the following, if there is no more of a specific item and there is no bpo or bpc to make this, how will I succeed in Production and Manufacturing.

Regards
SS

You can get the BPCs(Only) for these from Radar sites or off the contract market.
The items are either offered on the market or in contracts at the major trade hubs.

The parts are all available on the market in trade hubs under the relavent faction menu under the research & manufacturing capability. They'll most likely al from one faction (Guritas or Serpentis - none look like Angel Items from memory). If you want to get them youself they can be retrieved from the same radar sites that contain the BPC's in the first place.

The BPCs are all single run (at least in Highsec) BTW . I pulled another Cryptic Tuner Data Interface BPC from a site on Saturday.
Ender Sai
Perkone
Caldari State
#12 - 2011-12-19 18:58:31 UTC
The best advice I can give OP in the space of a single readable post is this:

"Learn about t2 industry, right from the top"

I'm quite certain that EVE Uni or some other has made a readable guide or blog or somewhat.

For now, it suffices to say that t2 industry is a little bit more complicated than mine mats -> BPC -> Stuff to sell.

You will need:
BPO -> copying -> BPC for invention
BPO/BPC + minerals -> manufacturing -> t1 component
BPO/BPC + moon poo -> manufacturing -> t2 construction components

invented BPC + t2 construction components + t1 component -> Final result.

And that excludes some stuff on invention and the complications of ships and all the rest of it. This just illustrated the complexity. I would post links for you but I don't have any on hand really. OH wait here's one;

http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/invention_chance.php?base_item=none&base_chance=25&decryptor=modifier2&skill_encryption=4&skill_datacore_1=4&skill_datacore_2=4&precalculated_chance=hidden

But that's best used for ships not modules.
Taedrin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2011-12-19 20:20:22 UTC
Just buy the interfaces off of the market. There should be plenty of them on the Jita market. The T2 ships themselves only require trade goods, minerals, RAM and T2 components to manufacture (and skills. And the invented bpc)
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#14 - 2011-12-19 22:09:05 UTC
Jack Dant wrote:
Akita, are you drunk [...] The items listed in the OP drop from exploration sites[...]not related to moon goo in any way.

Whoops, I misread those as T2 components.

Akita T evewiki profile | | | Build your own EVE-ready PC
Quinc4623
Space Explorers Federation
#15 - 2011-12-19 23:31:52 UTC
The materials come from the same place as interface BPCs, Radar exploration sites. Fortunately you only ever need one of a particular data interface, so don't worry about the expense too much. However you might want to visit Jita for this anyway. Jita can also be the best place to get T2 components for the actual production quickly and cheaply. You should be able to browse the market at look at the info for the T2 BPOs. However remember to click the option for showing market items even if none are availiable, since there won't be any T2 BPOs on the market. The actual material costs after invention are by default 50% that shown for market BPOs. Invented ship BPOs will have 1 run with -4 PE and -4 ME by default, invented modules have 10 runs. Use copys with 1 run for ships, and 300 runs for modules. There are items that change this (also found in Radar exploration sites), but they're only worth it for T2 ships costing 100 million or more due to cost.
Gridwalker
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2011-12-21 10:41:47 UTC
Xuzi wrote:

I have no qualms with the limited number of T2 BPOs still in the game, but thats because I like math and spreadsheets don't trouble me. It allows me to be profitable while other poor suckers get the screws put to them. However, I do pity the poor saps that are getting their wallets ganked when they assume the same rules are being used to create all the different T2 items in the game. How would they know otherwise unless we mention it from time to time in the forums.

Short story is, if you want to produce T2 items, you gotta do your math.


I don't pity anyone who decides to play industrialist but doesn't do their homework, just as I don't pity anyone who plays PvP and gets spanked because they don't understand how to fit and use their chosen ship.

If you want to produce ANY item, you need to do your math, T2 or not. I own several T2 BPO's (none of which from the old lottery, by the way) and even some of those are no longer profitable to build. I've also seen plenty of T1 items which are also completely unprofitable.

The trick with industry is knowing what to build, pure and simple. That takes the willingness to research market conditions, and the aptitude to understand not only supply and demand, but also your costs and profits. If you're not using some sort of toolset, or at least a set of spreadsheets, you're unlikely to do well, and you may not even realize how poorly you're actually doing.

And personally, I believe that is the real reason so many items are actually unprofitable to build. When a T2 item is unprofitable to build, even with a T2 BPO, one can only conclude that the industrialists working that market simply haven't a clue what they're doing.

All that said, it still comes down to understanding the supply, demand, and profit margin of your chosen product. You can never assume any of those three things are favorable for any particular product.
Nevryn Takis
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2011-12-21 17:51:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Nevryn Takis
Gridwalker wrote:
[quote=Xuzi]
And personally, I believe that is the real reason so many items are actually unprofitable to build. When a T2 item is unprofitable to build, even with a T2 BPO, one can only conclude that the industrialists working that market simply haven't a clue what they're doing.

All that said, it still comes down to understanding the supply, demand, and profit margin of your chosen product. You can never assume any of those three things are favorable for any particular product.

This doesn't only apply to T2 .. there a group of dudes near my industrial base selling T1 items at 70% of the cost of the materails to build them..and my costs are base off an ME 50 (0.1% waste) BPO.