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Seeking information to learn the market...
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Serena Darknight
Doomheim
#1 - 2016-04-11 01:20:56 UTC
I am a returning player from 2011 and had to start anew. I was a miner the whole time I played and now I want to dip my feet into the market. I don't know much about it so I came to this place to get some advice on where I can research some information to get on my feet. I currently have around 14m isk and a Sigil.

Are there any websites that are full of good and recent info that can get me started? I do have Evernus on the computer and been looking on how to use it to get started, but I just need some information to boost me. I am not wanting any isk from anyone.

I just want a hand-up, not a hand-out. Thank you for your time.
Makeleth Riatu Solette
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2016-04-11 01:58:55 UTC
Get your wallet up to 100m, then start looking for mid-velocity, mid-margin items to trade in-station. Once you get your wallet to a billion, you can start branching out into more lucrative items.

Mail me if you'd like some marketing advice or advice in general
Serena Darknight
Doomheim
#3 - 2016-04-11 02:23:36 UTC
Makeleth Riatu Solette wrote:
Get your wallet up to 100m, then start looking for mid-velocity, mid-margin items to trade in-station. Once you get your wallet to a billion, you can start branching out into more lucrative items.

Can I have one example of a 'mid-velocity, mid-margin item'? Honestly, I have no clue what that even means and what would make an item 'lucrative'...
Mindy Lelievre
The Canary - Ta-er al-Safar
#4 - 2016-04-11 05:53:28 UTC
I see you have an industrial. Have you considered contract hauling as a possible gateway profession into market trading? As a hauler you can gain some insight into what traders and industry builders are moving around, which could lead to trading ideas.

We have our own channel: "Haulers Channel" if you want to stop by and chat :) There are haulers as well as some major traders and builders since they often hire courier services.
Cista2
EVE Museum
#5 - 2016-04-11 07:02:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Cista2
Serena Darknight wrote:
Can I have one example of a 'mid-velocity, mid-margin item'? Honestly, I have no clue what that even means and what would make an item 'lucrative'...
Well let's say you have 50 mil, you could trade ammunition, or modules that are worth less than 1 million each. You can look at for example laser crystals, and some T2 modules that are not too expensive.

What is meant with "mid-velocity" is that the item trades for e.g. several billion overall each day, but not more than that or you will have too much competition from some very stubborn traders. What is meant by "mid-margin" is that when an item does not have too much volume, you can find a difference in buy price and sell price of maybe 20%. That would mean that for each module costing 1 million isk you can make 200K profit.

My channel: "Signatures" -
Makeleth Riatu Solette
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2016-04-11 11:52:11 UTC
Cista2 wrote:
Serena Darknight wrote:
Can I have one example of a 'mid-velocity, mid-margin item'? Honestly, I have no clue what that even means and what would make an item 'lucrative'...
Well let's say you have 50 mil, you could trade ammunition, or modules that are worth less than 1 million each. You can look at for example laser crystals, and some T2 modules that are not too expensive.

What is meant with "mid-velocity" is that the item trades for e.g. several billion overall each day, but not more than that or you will have too much competition from some very stubborn traders. What is meant by "mid-margin" is that when an item does not have too much volume, you can find a difference in buy price and sell price of maybe 20%. That would mean that for each module costing 1 million isk you can make 200K profit.



Thanks cista. I fell asleep last night, so unfortunately I couldn't reply.

Mail me if you'd like some marketing advice or advice in general
Serena Darknight
Doomheim
#7 - 2016-04-13 00:57:02 UTC
Cista2 wrote:
Serena Darknight wrote:
Can I have one example of a 'mid-velocity, mid-margin item'? Honestly, I have no clue what that even means and what would make an item 'lucrative'...
Well let's say you have 50 mil, you could trade ammunition, or modules that are worth less than 1 million each. You can look at for example laser crystals, and some T2 modules that are not too expensive.

What is meant with "mid-velocity" is that the item trades for e.g. several billion overall each day, but not more than that or you will have too much competition from some very stubborn traders. What is meant by "mid-margin" is that when an item does not have too much volume, you can find a difference in buy price and sell price of maybe 20%. That would mean that for each module costing 1 million isk you can make 200K profit.

Thank you for this information. I did a bunch of mining the last couple of days and I am just shy of 24m isk in the wallet. I am thinking of taking 10m of it and putting it into the market and see how I do and keep the other 14m+ in reserve in case it doesn't work.

And as for contract hauling, the Sigil only holds around 2000 m3 of cargo space and not much of a tank to speak of, so I am hesitant in using it to do any sort of hauling at this point. I have been looking at Eve Central and seeing the trade hauling feature to see if anything good can be hauled for a nice profit. I just feel I need to find a station to work out of and start from there.
Makeleth Riatu Solette
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2016-04-13 02:00:12 UTC
Serena, I know you don't want a hand-out, but if you ever need a loan as you get bigger in market trading, drop me a mail and I will be happy to assist :)

Mail me if you'd like some marketing advice or advice in general
Serena Darknight
Doomheim
#9 - 2016-04-13 04:50:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Serena Darknight
Makeleth Riatu Solette wrote:
Serena, I know you don't want a hand-out, but if you ever need a loan as you get bigger in market trading, drop me a mail and I will be happy to assist :)

I appreciate the offer. This market thing is complicated when you are unsure of what you are doing.

Update: Decided to do a Dodixie-Hek route to see how well it goes. I know it wasn't going to make much but wanted to start off small and see what I could do. I ended up going back and forth hauling a few items including: Neural Network Analyzer, Antibiotics, Central System Controller, X5 Enduring Stasis Webifiers, 250mm 'Scout' Accelerator Cannon, Mjolnir Heavy Assault Missile, and Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M.

Profits made:

Neural Network Analyzer (20) - 519,926.80 isk profit
Antibiotics (20967) - 371,107.99 isk profit
Central System Controller (7) - 206,843 isk profit
X5 Enduring Stasis Webifier (330) - 793,939.24 isk profit
250mm 'Scout' Accelerator Cannon (3) - 68,082 isk profit
Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M (15000) - 274,027.42 isk profit

Losses made:

Mjolnir Heavy Assault Missile (30000) - 2,994,667.92 isk LOSS


I learned a lot in that Mjolnir haul where I lost almost 3m isk. Did not realize that Eve Central Trade Tool doesn't show the buyer's price only. I was supposed to sell the missiles on the market instead of to a buyer. Lesson learned. Down just over a million isk doing this run this day. Now I know better and got the CN ammo in market to sell and doing well so far and I should make about 900,000 isk on that if it sells at the price I got it at now.
Tam Arai
Mi Pen Rai
#10 - 2016-04-14 03:49:19 UTC
Remember to always use buy orders to get your stock and sell orders for selling unless you are desperate for cash
Cista2
EVE Museum
#11 - 2016-04-14 04:42:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Cista2
Or unless you see a very good deal between two markets.

Speaking of incredible deals, be aware of the margin trading scam. That is, a person can trick you into buying something somewhere, because you think you can sell it elsewhere. When you arrive to sell it, it turns out that the buy order is void, because his wallet is empty. When something looks too good to be true, it usually is not true.

If the great opportunity is announced in local chat, it is *always* a scam. When you see one announced, study it and learn.

My channel: "Signatures" -
Serena Darknight
Doomheim
#12 - 2016-04-16 08:49:36 UTC
My friend who brought me back into the game suggested that I start a corporation and have people invest in it through the shares provided. I am hesitant since I am not sure how this works, since a few questions come to mind. Having investors inject some capital and then paying them off does sound interesting.

1. He told me that you keep the majority of the shares to maintain control of the corporation. He suggested to raise the number of shares from the base of 1000 to 10000 and keep at least 5500 of those shares, and basically sell the other 4500 shares as capital to get my market business going. But I am unsure how to sell them and what to sell them for.

2. What type of percentage do I pay out to the 'investors' and how often?

3. With the proceeds of the 5500 shares, I assume that is re-invested into the corporation. Is there a formula that keeps track of this so I am not shortchanging either my 'investors' or myself? I want to be clear and transparent, but make it known that I am new at this and it might not be profitable, especially in the beginning.

4. Reading some of these forums for Market Discussions, I see a lot to where people ask for money for loans, which I do not want. I don't feel I am in any position to make a profit since I am learning, but the idea is interesting as some passive income to reach out and invest in others. But who can you trust? How do you keep them from running off with your isk without collateral?

5. I have an idea of a location I would like to base myself out of. I do not want to do the 0.01 isk dance of boredom so being in a major trade hub is not a viable option. I don't mind doing some small hauling to get around.

I still haven't decided if I want to move into this direction since starting a corporation would make it so I could have a wardec brought against me and I don't have the skills, or means to fight back. But having something of my own that can support my identity is intriguing. Would love to hear what you think...
Collector Kat
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2016-04-16 09:34:29 UTC
Serena Darknight wrote:
My friend who brought me back into the game suggested that I start a corporation and have people invest in it through the shares provided. I am hesitant since I am not sure how this works, since a few questions come to mind. Having investors inject some capital and then paying them off does sound interesting.

1. He told me that you keep the majority of the shares to maintain control of the corporation. He suggested to raise the number of shares from the base of 1000 to 10000 and keep at least 5500 of those shares, and basically sell the other 4500 shares as capital to get my market business going. But I am unsure how to sell them and what to sell them for.

2. What type of percentage do I pay out to the 'investors' and how often?

3. With the proceeds of the 5500 shares, I assume that is re-invested into the corporation. Is there a formula that keeps track of this so I am not shortchanging either my 'investors' or myself? I want to be clear and transparent, but make it known that I am new at this and it might not be profitable, especially in the beginning.

4. Reading some of these forums for Market Discussions, I see a lot to where people ask for money for loans, which I do not want. I don't feel I am in any position to make a profit since I am learning, but the idea is interesting as some passive income to reach out and invest in others. But who can you trust? How do you keep them from running off with your isk without collateral?

5. I have an idea of a location I would like to base myself out of. I do not want to do the 0.01 isk dance of boredom so being in a major trade hub is not a viable option. I don't mind doing some small hauling to get around.

I still haven't decided if I want to move into this direction since starting a corporation would make it so I could have a wardec brought against me and I don't have the skills, or means to fight back. But having something of my own that can support my identity is intriguing. Would love to hear what you think...


it will fail try making it on your own for starts then if you do find a clever tactic thats tried and tested then maybe find some friends to invest, Then maybe just maybe try a Ipo but shares via in game always fail
Thermal Damage
Star Nation
Goonswarm Federation
#14 - 2016-04-16 12:22:58 UTC
How often and for how long do you log into eve? This will play a big part in what sorts of items you should be looking to trade.

You do not want to enter into a highly competitive market unless you are able to update your orders frequently. I don't get to play for long periods of time, and to be quite honest I wouldn't want to sit there babysitting orders, even if I could.

If you are more casual like me, set up orders for more slow moving, less competitive stock. Most of my stock is bought while I am AFK in work ;)

I was found guilty of Nitshe by the CoCaP
Cista2
EVE Museum
#15 - 2016-04-16 13:59:53 UTC
Serena Darknight wrote:
My friend who brought me back into the game suggested that I start a corporation and have people invest in it through the shares provided. I am hesitant since I am not sure how this works, since a few questions come to mind. Having investors inject some capital and then paying them off does sound interesting.

1. He told me that you keep the majority of the shares to maintain control of the corporation. He suggested to raise the number of shares from the base of 1000 to 10000 and keep at least 5500 of those shares, and basically sell the other 4500 shares as capital to get my market business going. But I am unsure how to sell them and what to sell them for.

2. What type of percentage do I pay out to the 'investors' and how often?

3. With the proceeds of the 5500 shares, I assume that is re-invested into the corporation. Is there a formula that keeps track of this so I am not shortchanging either my 'investors' or myself? I want to be clear and transparent, but make it known that I am new at this and it might not be profitable, especially in the beginning.

4. Reading some of these forums for Market Discussions, I see a lot to where people ask for money for loans, which I do not want. I don't feel I am in any position to make a profit since I am learning, but the idea is interesting as some passive income to reach out and invest in others. But who can you trust? How do you keep them from running off with your isk without collateral?

5. I have an idea of a location I would like to base myself out of. I do not want to do the 0.01 isk dance of boredom so being in a major trade hub is not a viable option. I don't mind doing some small hauling to get around.

I still haven't decided if I want to move into this direction since starting a corporation would make it so I could have a wardec brought against me and I don't have the skills, or means to fight back. But having something of my own that can support my identity is intriguing. Would love to hear what you think...
It is fruitless to think along those line until you are an experienced player.

My channel: "Signatures" -
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#16 - 2016-04-16 16:59:04 UTC
https://youtu.be/9ipRjmNJeXI Market screen tutorial, its very basic, but, it has some handy stuff in there.

sound starts about 2 minutes in

Fluffy Bunny Pic!

Fat Buddah
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2016-04-19 08:01:39 UTC
Consider placing ranged buy orders. Those generally compete at prices well below hub station buy prices.

Ideally you would buy stuff cheap some jumps away from the hub, move them to, and list them for sale at the hub station. However, if you are tight in wallet and need a fast cash flow you can always dump your stuff onto the top hub local buy order and still make profits.
Don't worry about stuff being bought in low-sec stations. Sooner or later somebody is going to 0.01 isk your buy order. Then you dump your low-sec stuff on him.

That's how I started...it got me enough money to buy my first raven, which then was sold at a great profit using then popular CNR scam.
Big Lynx
#18 - 2016-04-19 13:12:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Big Lynx
Most important thing before you start to trade seriously and with bigger amounts/margins:

+ All relevant trade skills to V
+ Max as possible standings to relevant factions and Corporations (that is more important than ever with upcoming tax increase, otherwise you will lose billions)

and the most precious tip: buy low, sell high
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#19 - 2016-04-19 13:19:39 UTC
Big Lynx wrote:
Most important thing before you start to trade seriously and with bigger amounts/margins:

+ All relevant trade skills to V
+ Max as possible standings to relevant factions and Corporations (that is more important than ever with upcoming tax increase, otherwise you will lose billions)

and the most precious tip: buy low, sell high



Actually, the upcoming changes mean standings are slightly less of an issue than they are now

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Thoraemond/eve-market-order-broker-fees-2016-04-09.png

You dont need all trade skills to V.

Slots are primarily something you need when starting out, especially if station trading, but later you dont need them so much. If you are doing regional trading you might need 305 orders, but I never have.

You should have broker relations and accounting to V, the rest are less needed

Fluffy Bunny Pic!

Thermal Damage
Star Nation
Goonswarm Federation
#20 - 2016-04-19 15:26:59 UTC
He did say 'relevant'

I was found guilty of Nitshe by the CoCaP
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