EVE General Discussion

Granted I know very little of all the drama involved and I can really only base my opinion on the "facts" presented in this thread and my personal knowledge of networking here is what I think.

CCP has no obligation to protect people from their own stupidity. Clicking a suspect link and having someone steal your personally identifiable information is not with CCPs realm to deal with. What that person does once he has your info could be though. If information obtained outside of the game is obtained through an illegal act and is then used to carry out an action inside of the game then it is within CCPs realm to adjudicate.

We have seen several times where CCP has taken ingame action for out of game actions. Defacing the EvE monument, and banning people for the singing ransoms are just a couple.

There are quite a few things CCP would need to investigate and decide on. If any of this proves true they should at least ban the person that took action ingame.

it`s fun to read ha the goons are losing so thats why the are doing this. haha and that for a game.....

I never really post on the EVE forums, but this one has definitely sparked my interest and somewhat mandates a response.

First, let's examine what actually happened:

Party A decides to be a pro-level distributor of secret information. The secret information Part A decides to distribute comes from a privately held web service that has no affiliation with EVE Online or CCP Games, and is owned by a third party all together for which CCP Games has no access to, no administrative privileges for, and for which CCP Games does not guarantee or provide any level of service, support, or warranty.

Party B, the victim of the released information, attempts to determine who the distributor of their secret information is. As the secret information is being leaked from their privately held web services that, again, have no affiliation with EVE Online or CCP Games, are owned by a third party for which CCP Games has no access to and no administrative privileges for, and for which do not contain, use or have access to any CCP Games held assetts at all, Party B decides to try to determine who the culprit is using very simple IP matching with their own services. They do not attempt to hack anyone, or use brute force criminal activity, they simply put together a little ruse to see if the spy is dumb enough to take the bait.

Party A really loves reddit. That's his target of choice for posting information.
Party B sends Party A a private message, with a ruse link back to the privately held, non-game services, which CCP Games and EVE Online are in no way a part of.
Party A chooses to click said link on their super secret spai alt reddit account, having no idea what the link is for, or why this person would be sending them a link.
Party B reviews their private server data, determines the connection, and takes measures to remove said distributor of secret information from their privately held services.

At this point in time, based on the above, one can clearly determine that none of these activities ever involved CCP Games or EVE Online. The connection of the two parties did not take place because of in game actions or in game communications. To make matters worse, the data that was leaked by Party A from Party B was never even inside of EVE Online or CCP Games property. In fact, no in-game assets or services were used at all.

Party B, now knowing Party A has been divulging their secret information, decides that they no longer wish to be affiliated with Party A in EVE Online, and removes them from their alliance.

What happened here is a simple connecting the dots on completely outside of game assets and completely outside of game services that are not wholly or partially owned by or under the control of CCP Games. The reason that this connection of the dots even occurred is because Lemba chose to disclose chat logs from, again, an outside of game web service that was not part of CCP Games or EVE Online intellectual property in a dump on Reddit. In other words, both the events that occurred and the triggering event for the events that occurred are so far removed from EVE Online and from CCP Games that quite frankly CCP Games has absolutely no business getting involved in this matter at all and would risk legal peril to themselves if they attempted to.

Again, let me repeat, the triggering event for the activities that took place did not occur due to in-game mechanics (such as connecting with someone via a trade channel to harass them for personal enjoyment, a corp application scam where in game assets were used as a catalyst to denigrate an individual on a personal, out of game basis, or a Jita scam with advantage interrogation techniques i.e. "bonus room" style hazing) therefore they are not in any way under the control of CCP Games and there would be no terms of service violation as the mere facts of all of the above details specifically remove this from an in-game or terms of service issue. Keep in mind, in situations in the past where CCP Games has stepped in and taken action, they have been because individuals were selected, contacted or targeted using in-game assets and communications. Because everything that happened here, from the reason for the investigation to the triggering events, to all of the services involved, etc were all completely outside of the game and in no way used in game services, there is no grounds for CCP Games to intervene in this at all.

While some may be upset that others are quite savvy with technology and are able to perform these kinds of checks against your personal information out of game, keep in mind that as many others have mentioned, every time you connect somewhere or login to a forum you make a lot of data available. If that data is used against you because you chose to login, that is really your own fault. CCP Games cannot do anything to remedy situations like this unless they choose to ban all player organizations from using third party services to connect with other players that they meet in the game. In other words, RIP EVE Online.

You missed out the stage where they then publically pinged his ip address to a particular subset of the userbase of the game...

A subset that might have slightly rustled jimmies.

But they sent them to a subset of the eve online userbase...



E: and their reason for sending it was based around events centred on eve online...

Just pointing out that it looks a bit **** to have your product associated with such a ****** act really...

Thats all.

EVE Online is literally famous for these types of things in bloc wars. Right now, EVE is getting more press than Donald Trump between VR/Valkyrie and this war, let it roll baby.

so what do you want CCP to do? Goonswarm Federation and its non-playing members will continue to do this over third party services.

What do you mean 'probably', Kimosabe? GIA/Black Hand are very, very good at what they do.



Yup. These sorts of shenanigans will appeal to a great many gamers. Heck, it was a combination of reading about the Guiding Hand Social Club and reports on B-R5RB that drew me in.