EVE General Discussion

So as you may well have noticed, there has been a new thread on the upcoming features forums: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=476516&find=unread

This introduces daily rewards for small tasks. Pretty much every mmo has them.

However, EVE isn't famous or popular for being 'Pretty much the same as every other mmo' or for being 'just another WoW clone' it is famous for challenging the realms of what is deemed acceptable in a game environment. Eve is famous because of the freedom the players have, the sandbox where players create sandcastles and watch them be destroyed. It is the greatest hub of villainy, thievery, scamming, trolling and the likes that no other game has managed to maintain or cater for. This is why eve is a vile piece of crap to some, but a sanctuary for those who like to be able to carve the game to suit their personality, the way they want to be. Eve is what YOU make of it.

Very few mmo's out there have these sorts of features and freedom to its players. This is why 9/10 mmo's today are just pay to win WoW clones that get attention for a few weeks then die out.

Eve is perfect the way it is. If you want to be successful and rich here, you have to put in the time and the effort to become so. There are ways to do it quicker than others, however this is where one of the most ruling factors of eve come out. Risk vs reward. If you want more reward, you will have to risk what you already have. Sure you can become a trillionaire by farming level 4 missions in high sec, however it will take a long time and has minimum risks. But by risking what you have, you are able to hit that trillion figure in less than 1/4 of the time in a c5 wormhole farming capital escalations.

So my question is: Why does ccp feel the need to look over all of this and decide that the game needs to be like all the other mmos, the WoW clones that last a few weeks, the games that are just generic copies of what the last one did successfully. Eve has survived and thrived for more than 10 years now and why is it now, the game is being changed to be like another WoW clone?

Skill injectors are a thing that can allow a day 1 player to pay real money to have as much sp as he likes. Sure he won't have the game knowledge or real life skill to use that sp effectively but it seems an awful lot like a WoW feature does it not? "You can earn your way to the top, or if you pay us this amount you are able to get it instantaneously"

Although I am not fond of them, I know that skill injectors are somewhat good to a group of older players that put them to good use.

However this is where my next :rant: begins. Dailies. I exclaimed why I think they are a terrible idea and why they just make eve stoop down to the level of WoW etc.

Sure 10,000 sp per day for killing a rat doesn't sound alot. Read this then:

To undock from a station in low sec with a frigate, warp to an asteroid belt and kill a single rat, then dock back up again will take roughly 2 minutes of your time, with relatively low risk dependent on what pocket you are in.

So in 1 month (30 days for those not aware) you will gain 300,000 sp. Assuming that the average character gains around 1.75million sp per month, that 300,00 sp equates to roughly 5 days of skill training.

So they are offering you an extra 5 days sp, with very low risk and in a whole month you will spend 1 hour of your time, maybe less once you get the hang of the warp button.

This free sp is per character and not per account. This means if you spend another 2 hours of your time, you can get that extra 5 days of sp on 2 other characters on the same account. Thats half a month of sp for 3 hours every month. 900,000 sp total.

Let's assume that an average eve player has 2 accounts active, 3 characters on each. For every extra account he/she owns is a free multiplier of sp that doesn't take up any more time due to the ability to multi box. So for 3 hours of work every month you can earn 1.8million sp. Just over 1 months worth of free sp.

Now if we take this amount, we can extract 1.5million of it with the use of skill extractors. Which at this time cost 236million isk. This will turn it into a skill injector which sells for 643million isk.

With some basic maths you can work out that 643 - 236 = 407. Thats 407million isk profit from 1 injector. With 2 accounts you will have 3 of those injectors per month. This equals 1.22billion isk.

That's right, that little 10,000 sp you get per day per character over your two accounts will gain you 1.22billion isk. With very little reward.

And another bad thing about this is the fact that the sp didn't come from anywhere, at least with extractors and injectors, the sp with taken from 1 character and passed on to another. These daily missions introduce a new, unlimited source of sp that comes out of nowhere.




So I beg you ccp, please don't just turn this game into another WoW clone like you are doing right now.


Grrr CCP

o7



Where is your integrity CCP? Where is your commitment to a harsh universe CCP?[/quote]

Did you not read it or are you just ignorant? An average eve player with two accounts can generate 1.8mil per month, i know you must be slow minded or something but 1.8mil x 12months does not equal 3million. Its more in the realms of 21.6 million per year. So maybe look at the facts before posting little bee.

Ugh, I agree with the OP, dailies are a terrible idea for EVE, keep them away.

I also maintain my original opinion on skill point trading in that it's an exceptionally bad idea that should never have even come close to implementation.

CCP had better be joking about this SP dailies thing, but given their track record of implementing bad ideas lately (skill trading, removing the watch list, the GONG - which at least got removed) it'l probably happen.

CCP - STOP MIMICKING OTHER MMO'S

What's the max SP/h? Like 2700 SP/h? In 1 year that's 23,652,000 SP with no dailies.

If you do dailies you add 3,650,000 SP on top, that's a 15.4% increase, that is something worth caring about. It's an even bigger % increase when you're not training optimally. Rough numbers of course.

My thoughts on the topic

Those aren't the only options.

One can always quit.

Stuff like this will drive some people away from EVE, while admittedly it will attract certain others.

Will the gain in players outweigh the loss in players? I don't know. What I do know is: I don't care if it brings in more players or not, integrity in the core concepts of the game is more important to me than how to squeeze every dollar they can out of this game.

Relevant.

Most of the solo-mode content in this game has a really bad case of that already. We need to rip out or change the mechanisms which make farming a good way to play the game, not make new ones.

CCP did dailies in Dust. That didn't kill it. The game was able to become profitable and retain a pretty diehard user base even on a dying console.

I think as business people it's hard to look at WoW's playerbase and not think in terms of snaking a goodly percentage away from them. It's the sort of doctrinal imperative they're schooled by, so seeing it there must be such a temptation even their subconscious minds can't let go of the thought. They must dream about it...WoW players parking their pandas and pulling into the EVE noob ship garage.

I'm quite weary of the discussion, frankly. By now, if the professionals can't read their own market, I'm no longer going to try cheering and chanting them into where they should be. I don't get paid for it anyway. They take free advice as seriously as everyone else does, so it's immaterial if I'm correct. I don't even think it's interesting to mull over the possibilities and muse over the lost opportunities, or failed ventures anymore. It's like chewing a stick of gum too long.

After all, didn't we just see the masters of economics bailed out of their fatal mistakes with hundreds of billions of tax payer dollars? Hubris...maybe Gordon Gekko shoulda said "hubris is good." It makes as much sense.

FOMO - fear of missing out. This will lead to people farming it for a while and then getting bored and quitting the game alltogether.

It was less of a "Here's how to do it," and more of a "Please watch, it contains useful things."

EC is definitely geared more toward more conventional games, and less toward sandboxes. It's got a lot for EVE to think about, but if everyone made a game the way they said to, we wouldn't have a whole bunch of diversity, and anyone taking most of their advice wouldn't have made anything like EVE.

Many of the modern "MMO" games just don't belong as online games. They're just single-player games which require you to be constantly online, which, for the end user, means "stupid strong DRM." Most of the group-finder "multiplayer" community is about "read guide before running dungeon/raid" because they want whatever the raid drops as fast as possible and the "bonus" whatever the daily gives. The fun of actually finding out how it works is lost on them.

I think this isn't the first time EVE has been introduced to dailies. I seem to remember a few forum posts about grinding sov in an the system and how boring that was.