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Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#1181 - 2016-04-12 02:25:25 UTC
Jediseah Tophet wrote:
I don't like the low bar for entry and/or the frequency of the activity. Having multiple goals achieved over a week might sound much more reasonable IMO than forcing a player to have to do a certain activity daily.


If you make it 7 activities over the course of a week it not only doesnt help CCP's log in numbers but also means the players who log in once a week have to spend that one day doing these 7 silly tasks to get their reward rather than doing what they want.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Rain6639
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1182 - 2016-04-12 02:36:16 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Rain6639 wrote:
my point is a daily 10k SP carrot is a buff to null sec


not a buff to anything its a nerf to freedom

dude. how do you think I feel about chasing entosis nodes.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#1183 - 2016-04-12 02:37:02 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Jediseah Tophet wrote:
I don't like the low bar for entry and/or the frequency of the activity. Having multiple goals achieved over a week might sound much more reasonable IMO than forcing a player to have to do a certain activity daily.


If you make it 7 activities over the course of a week it not only doesnt help CCP's log in numbers but also means the players who log in once a week have to spend that one day doing these 7 silly tasks to get their reward rather than doing what they want.


i still think the best compromise is

Quote:

make them build so every day 1 rat adds to your counter but the counter never goes over 30

so say you cant log in for half a month when you do log in your counter is at 15/30 so you can go and kill 15 rats but if you stay logged off for a year its only 30/30 this still incentives logging on but its much more free for the player to do it


this would be a way to adapt dailies to fit your game rather than just copy past and jam it in

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Amarisen Gream
The.Kin.of.Jupiter
#1184 - 2016-04-12 02:56:41 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Jediseah Tophet wrote:
I don't like the low bar for entry and/or the frequency of the activity. Having multiple goals achieved over a week might sound much more reasonable IMO than forcing a player to have to do a certain activity daily.


If you make it 7 activities over the course of a week it not only doesnt help CCP's log in numbers but also means the players who log in once a week have to spend that one day doing these 7 silly tasks to get their reward rather than doing what they want.


i still think the best compromise is

Quote:

make them build so every day 1 rat adds to your counter but the counter never goes over 30

so say you cant log in for half a month when you do log in your counter is at 15/30 so you can go and kill 15 rats but if you stay logged off for a year its only 30/30 this still incentives logging on but its much more free for the player to do it


this would be a way to adapt dailies to fit your game rather than just copy past and jam it in



Have to say, I agree with this compromise. At least i won't be peeing on any shoes this way.

"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels" - The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1

#NPCLivesMatter #Freetheboobs
Chjna
the Goose Flock
#1185 - 2016-04-12 03:50:13 UTC
To be compleatly honest most of us do not care if the game suddenly get more people logging in, if they not provide content and interact with the rest of us. Sure some will logg in with this as a reason and then stay on and do some other stuff. The main bulk of the allready active players will feel forced to spend time on this kind of pointless gameplay and have less time over for interacting with the rest of us.


The game have a couple of mecanics that pushes people to log AND interact with the rest of us without feeling forced like this.

Some examples would be:

--- PvP ---
Forming for timers in wars.


--- Industry ---
Keep your production lines full.

Getting your auctions for teams and move to where good ones land... ops you removed a great one, smart move.


--- Market ---
Updating your orders.

Refill empty orders.

This kind of stimulation is a integrated part of the game and the playerbase will not complain. You do not feel that your freedom is taken from you. It is tied to a path you chose to take.

Stuff that make us not want to log in is a stagnant game. Capsuleers are working hard right now to remove the biggest reason to this. First after the downfall of a certan entety, can we hope for a more active and intresting game.

Remove T2 BPOs
Lugh Crow-Slave
#1186 - 2016-04-12 03:53:23 UTC
Chjna wrote:
To be compleatly honest most of us do not care if the game suddenly get more people logging in, if they not provide content and interact with the rest of us. Sure some will logg in with this as a reason and then stay on and do some other stuff. The main bulk of the allready active players will feel forced to spend time on this kind of pointless gameplay and have less time over for interacting with the rest of us.


The game have a couple of mecanics that pushes people to log AND interact with the rest of us without feeling forced like this.

Some examples would be:

--- PvP ---
Forming for timers in wars.


--- Industry ---
Keep your production lines full.

Getting your auctions for teams and move to where good ones land... ops you removed a great one, smart move.


--- Market ---
Updating your orders.

Refill empty orders.

This kind of stimulation is a integrated part of the game and the playerbase will not complain. You do not feel that your freedom is taken from you. It is tied to a path you chose to take.

Stuff that make us not want to log in is a stagnant game. Capsuleers are working hard right now to remove the biggest reason to this. First after the downfall of a certan entety, can we hope for a more active and intresting game.


Not that your point isn't valid but uhh..... teams don't exist

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#1187 - 2016-04-12 03:59:29 UTC
The rat kill is the silliest part of this. They already know very much about the 'Leveling a Raven' syndrome, so why are they feeding it?

Joining player corp and staying in it for lengths of time? Now that is something that generates content, and gets people drawn into the game and its goings on.

Don't feed the Raven.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
Lugh Crow-Slave
#1188 - 2016-04-12 04:11:09 UTC
Vic Jefferson wrote:
The rat kill is the silliest part of this. They already know very much about the 'Leveling a Raven' syndrome, so why are they feeding it?

Joining player corp and staying in it for lengths of time? Now that is something that generates content, and gets people drawn into the game and its goings on.

Don't feed the Raven.


CCP is bad when they try to be clever you know not what you ate asking

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Chjna
the Goose Flock
#1189 - 2016-04-12 04:11:10 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Chjna wrote:
To be compleatly honest most of us do not care if the game suddenly get more people logging in, if they not provide content and interact with the rest of us. Sure some will logg in with this as a reason and then stay on and do some other stuff. The main bulk of the allready active players will feel forced to spend time on this kind of pointless gameplay and have less time over for interacting with the rest of us.


The game have a couple of mecanics that pushes people to log AND interact with the rest of us without feeling forced like this.

Some examples would be:

--- PvP ---
Forming for timers in wars.


--- Industry ---
Keep your production lines full.

Getting your auctions for teams and move to where good ones land... ops you removed a great one, smart move.


--- Market ---
Updating your orders.

Refill empty orders.

This kind of stimulation is a integrated part of the game and the playerbase will not complain. You do not feel that your freedom is taken from you. It is tied to a path you chose to take.

Stuff that make us not want to log in is a stagnant game. Capsuleers are working hard right now to remove the biggest reason to this. First after the downfall of a certan entety, can we hope for a more active and intresting game.


Not that your point isn't valid but uhh..... teams don't exist



Care to read that line again? :P

Remove T2 BPOs
Lugh Crow-Slave
#1190 - 2016-04-12 04:24:12 UTC
Chjna wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Chjna wrote:
To be compleatly honest most of us do not care if the game suddenly get more people logging in, if they not provide content and interact with the rest of us. Sure some will logg in with this as a reason and then stay on and do some other stuff. The main bulk of the allready active players will feel forced to spend time on this kind of pointless gameplay and have less time over for interacting with the rest of us.


The game have a couple of mecanics that pushes people to log AND interact with the rest of us without feeling forced like this.

Some examples would be:

--- PvP ---
Forming for timers in wars.


--- Industry ---
Keep your production lines full.

Getting your auctions for teams and move to where good ones land... ops you removed a great one, smart move.


--- Market ---
Updating your orders.

Refill empty orders.

This kind of stimulation is a integrated part of the game and the playerbase will not complain. You do not feel that your freedom is taken from you. It is tied to a path you chose to take.

Stuff that make us not want to log in is a stagnant game. Capsuleers are working hard right now to remove the biggest reason to this. First after the downfall of a certan entety, can we hope for a more active and intresting game.


Not that your point isn't valid but uhh..... teams don't exist



Care to read that line again? :P


My bad 4am and it stung a bit as I think they had great potential

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#1191 - 2016-04-12 05:02:41 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Why Dailies?
So first lets talk a little history. EVE had a daily logon incentive for most of it's existence: the 24 hour skill queue limit. Back in Phoebe, we removed those limitations. Now, at the time, we were of two minds internally. We didn't like the experience around being punished for not logging in to update your queue, but also knew that some of those logins might be leading to meaningful gameplay and we shouldn't lightly let go of them. We leaned to the side of a better experience and removed the limitations, hoping that the logins we were generating were fairly empty, rarely leading to more actual activity in the universe. Well, it turns out we were wrong about that. Now, with before and after data we can see that making it into the client is a huge step towards real activity, even if the reason for logging in in the first place seems artificial. So this leads us to where we are now, attempting to find ways to create more logins that also don't feel like such a punishment as the skill queue limitations did. This may not turn out to be the perfect alternative but that's what we're looking for.

Thanks for the laugh.

Remove standings and insurance.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#1192 - 2016-04-12 05:06:01 UTC
Mara Pahrdi wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Why Dailies?
So first lets talk a little history. EVE had a daily logon incentive for most of it's existence: the 24 hour skill queue limit. Back in Phoebe, we removed those limitations. Now, at the time, we were of two minds internally. We didn't like the experience around being punished for not logging in to update your queue, but also knew that some of those logins might be leading to meaningful gameplay and we shouldn't lightly let go of them. We leaned to the side of a better experience and removed the limitations, hoping that the logins we were generating were fairly empty, rarely leading to more actual activity in the universe. Well, it turns out we were wrong about that. Now, with before and after data we can see that making it into the client is a huge step towards real activity, even if the reason for logging in in the first place seems artificial. So this leads us to where we are now, attempting to find ways to create more logins that also don't feel like such a punishment as the skill queue limitations did. This may not turn out to be the perfect alternative but that's what we're looking for.

Thanks for the laugh.


I feel like if this was true they would just reverse the change done to the queue

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#1193 - 2016-04-12 05:28:06 UTC
Erihn Sabrovich wrote:
EVE mechanics are quite difficult to understand, which may be a big turn off to new players... But it's not the only turn off... (and somehow, that turn off is quite a good thing as it somehow protect us from "kiddies")

Not really. It's more the amount of different mechanics that is challenging for a new player. And while Blizzard has been abolishing game mechanics over time to reduce complexity, CCP went the other way.

Remove standings and insurance.
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#1194 - 2016-04-12 05:34:28 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Mara Pahrdi wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Why Dailies?
So first lets talk a little history. EVE had a daily logon incentive for most of it's existence: the 24 hour skill queue limit. Back in Phoebe, we removed those limitations. Now, at the time, we were of two minds internally. We didn't like the experience around being punished for not logging in to update your queue, but also knew that some of those logins might be leading to meaningful gameplay and we shouldn't lightly let go of them. We leaned to the side of a better experience and removed the limitations, hoping that the logins we were generating were fairly empty, rarely leading to more actual activity in the universe. Well, it turns out we were wrong about that. Now, with before and after data we can see that making it into the client is a huge step towards real activity, even if the reason for logging in in the first place seems artificial. So this leads us to where we are now, attempting to find ways to create more logins that also don't feel like such a punishment as the skill queue limitations did. This may not turn out to be the perfect alternative but that's what we're looking for.

Thanks for the laugh.


I feel like if this was true they would just reverse the change done to the queue

Well, hard to do that with this kind of feature.

Remove standings and insurance.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#1195 - 2016-04-12 05:34:59 UTC
Mara Pahrdi wrote:
Erihn Sabrovich wrote:
EVE mechanics are quite difficult to understand, which may be a big turn off to new players... But it's not the only turn off... (and somehow, that turn off is quite a good thing as it somehow protect us from "kiddies")

Not really. It's more the amount of different mechanics that is challenging for a new player. And while Blizzard has been abolishing game mechanics over time to reduce complexity, CCP went the other way.


It's not good that it protects is from kiddies
That is just the nessesary evil that comes with the level of depth and freedom in the game mechanics

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Lugh Crow-Slave
#1196 - 2016-04-12 05:36:39 UTC
Mara Pahrdi wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Mara Pahrdi wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Why Dailies?
So first lets talk a little history. EVE had a daily logon incentive for most of it's existence: the 24 hour skill queue limit. Back in Phoebe, we removed those limitations. Now, at the time, we were of two minds internally. We didn't like the experience around being punished for not logging in to update your queue, but also knew that some of those logins might be leading to meaningful gameplay and we shouldn't lightly let go of them. We leaned to the side of a better experience and removed the limitations, hoping that the logins we were generating were fairly empty, rarely leading to more actual activity in the universe. Well, it turns out we were wrong about that. Now, with before and after data we can see that making it into the client is a huge step towards real activity, even if the reason for logging in in the first place seems artificial. So this leads us to where we are now, attempting to find ways to create more logins that also don't feel like such a punishment as the skill queue limitations did. This may not turn out to be the perfect alternative but that's what we're looking for.

Thanks for the laugh.


I feel like if this was true they would just reverse the change done to the queue

Well, hard to do that with this kind of feature.


Not really just make it impossable to add a skill to a queue that currently extends past 24hr

Of you mean do to the back lash it would be just as bad or smaller than it is with dailies

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Mikkal Rune
Doomheim
#1197 - 2016-04-12 06:19:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Mikkal Rune
This post (which I've already linked once, but having read the entire thread, it really is the most coherent and cogent) already said everything really necessary (especially the bit where she points out that Rise’s funny ideas about what we all should be doing in New Eden are "utterly and completely irrelevant" Big smile), but – now that it's evening and I've had a glass of wine or two – where the hell has CCP's artistic integrity gone these days? Game releases of Eve Online used to be about testing and extending the limits of the sandbox, providing challenging new things to do, more complexity to master, new reasons to HTFU. Eve was a work of art, with CCP creating an increasingly sophisticated dystopian image of a future society and letting it play out in the interactions of players with the environment and with each other. There was an artistic concept, a vision behind it all.

To judge by his recent ideas, that vision doesn't interest Rise in the slightest. In fact, I doubt he has ever understood it. This new "improvement" is like a painter deciding to offer people $5 to look at his painting. If the painting was at all good, people would look at it without having to be given special incentives. But that's all beyond Rise. All he can imagine is offering carrots. It will make more people log in each day, so it must be good, right? In my view that's an admission of total intellectual bankrupcy.

In any case, my sub comes up for renewal in the summer. Or not. Currently more likely not.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#1198 - 2016-04-12 06:29:49 UTC
Mikkal Rune wrote:
This post (which I've already linked once, but having read the entire thread, it really is the most coherent and cogent) already said everything really necessary (especially the bit where she points out that Rise’s funny ideas about what we all should be doing in New Eden are "utterly and completely irrelevant" Big smile), but – now that it's evening and I've had a glass of wine or two – where the hell has CCP's artistic integrity gone these days? Game releases of Eve Online used to be about testing and extending the limits of the sandbox, providing challenging new things to do, more complexity to master, new reasons to HTFU. Eve was a work of art, with CCP creating an increasingly sophisticated dystopian image of a future society and letting it play out in the interactions of players with the environment and with each other. There was an artistic concept, a vision behind it all.

To judge by his recent ideas, that vision doesn't interest Rise in the slightest. In fact, I doubt he has ever understood it. This new "improvement" is like a painter deciding to offer people $5 to look at his painting. If the painting was at all good, people would look at it without having to be given special incentives. But that's all beyond Rise. All he can imagine is offering carrots. It will make more people log in each day, so it must be good, right? In my view that's an admission of total intellectual bankrupcy.

In any case, my sub comes up for renewal in the summer. Or not. Currently more likely not.


As people have pointed out in doubt this is rises idea he just got stuck being the messenger I would look more to someone like seagull to put your blame onto

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#1199 - 2016-04-12 06:58:18 UTC
This whole thing will end in XP/SP grind soon. One step at a time. First SP trading, now rewards for logging. Next step xp boost for playing at least 3 hours.
Let's face it. Players are creating content in sandbox (if EvE is still sandbox?). If they are not online because they passively gaining XP/SP it's bad for the business.
Problem is if game is not entertaning there is not enough high reward to encourage players to log in.

Rise do you really think giving 3 650 000 SP = 4 900 000 000 ISK at current prices to be hardcore gameplay? Undock, warp to anomaly, shoot rat, dock.
If you think this is good proposal I don't want to know what you guys baking with tribute system...

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
Lugh Crow-Slave
#1200 - 2016-04-12 07:09:14 UTC
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
This whole thing will end in XP/SP grind soon. One step at a time. First SP trading, now rewards for logging. Next step xp boost for playing at least 3 hours.
Let's face it. Players are creating content in sandbox (if EvE is still sandbox?). If they are not online because they passively gaining XP/SP it's bad for the business.
Problem is if game is not entertaning there is not enough high reward to encourage players to log in.

Rise do you really think giving 3 650 000 SP = 4 900 000 000 ISK at current prices to be hardcore gameplay? Undock, warp to anomaly, shoot rat, dock.
If you think this is good proposal I don't want to know what you guys baking with tribute system...


Don't forget this is just the first daily the op dais they ate planning to add more so it's much more than 3 650 000

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble