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Lugh Crow-Slave
#841 - 2016-04-10 18:47:33 UTC
Rain6639 wrote:
The only question I'm interested in is how they will adjust the number of SP awarded per day. I see it as a matter of balance at this point.


What 27% of base daily sp to much or to little

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Rain6639
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#842 - 2016-04-10 18:49:25 UTC
It's not a stretch of the imagination to understand the benefit of awarding SP for kills eventually. Based on material costs perhaps. In that scenario, value for PLEX kills wouldn't increase the SP reward. Seems like a good measure of contributing to game activity.

Maybe the SP reward could be set by a 75% reduction of benefit compared to Injectors, so for killing an injector's going rate you get 25% of the highest SP tier (150k SP) which would be 30k or so.

This proposed SP reward for killing one NPC is very high, balanced only by the daily limit of 1. In terms of value killed vs SP it's ridiculous.

Those players who accepted the logic that SP in Injectors was earned by someone might agree that SP awarded for kills is ok when it is a result of removing value from the game through destruction.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#843 - 2016-04-10 18:54:17 UTC
Rain6639 wrote:
It's not a stretch of the imagination to understand the benefit of awarding SP for kills eventually. Based on material costs perhaps. In that scenario, value for PLEX kills wouldn't increase the SP reward. Seems like a good measure of contributing to game activity.

Maybe the SP reward could be set by a 75% reduction of benefit compared to Injectors, so for killing an injector's going rate you get 25% of the highest SP tier (150k SP) which would be 30k or so.

This proposed SP reward for killing one NPC is very high, balanced only by the daily limit of 1. In terms of value killed vs SP it's ridiculous.

Those players who accepted the logic that SP in Injectors was earned by someone might agree that SP awarded for kills is ok when it is a result of removing value from the game through destruction.


How would you account for injectors fluctuating in price of it ever happened

Also is it everyone on the kill that get a split like with bounties or is it the final blow?

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Rain6639
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#844 - 2016-04-10 18:57:17 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Rain6639 wrote:
The only question I'm interested in is how they will adjust the number of SP awarded per day. I see it as a matter of balance at this point.


What 27% of base daily sp to much or to little

10k SP is basically 10% of daily maximum SP so maybe they're testing a cap. I think it should be higher.

What players are forgetting is there is a lot of psychology behind rewarding XP for active gameplay.

If I allow myself to tinfoil here, I'd say this is a move in an overall / long-term effort to completely change EVE's business model. I don't see why there would be cause for resentment. If you were a player like me who paid for subscriptions for years to passively earn SP, you should have as much SP as you paid your subscription. So you realized the full benefit of the old model.

It's valid to say instead of this strategy, why not make EVE more fun, but in terms of technical limitations, changing the way EVE works is an impossible undertaking. To put it another way, EVE has some built-in, fundamental shortcomings that I don't see changing ever, unless new mechanics are introduced that allow some twitch gameplay

such as blocking to mitigate incoming attacks. Street fighter allows you to react with a low, mid, or high block to reduce the incoming damage of an attack. Without it you end up stuck to a bubble like a bug and there's nothing for you to do except die. The shortcoming is in that players of a lot of contemporary games expect that type of twitch counteraction to be available to them in PVP situations.

Anyway I don't want to get off-topic, my point is this type of change in rewarding SP for gameplay is one of the few options available for technical reasons.

WIth Injectors players should have realized CCP is looking to cut ties with players who pay subscriptions but don't play.
Rain6639
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#845 - 2016-04-10 18:58:11 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Rain6639 wrote:
It's not a stretch of the imagination to understand the benefit of awarding SP for kills eventually. Based on material costs perhaps. In that scenario, value for PLEX kills wouldn't increase the SP reward. Seems like a good measure of contributing to game activity.

Maybe the SP reward could be set by a 75% reduction of benefit compared to Injectors, so for killing an injector's going rate you get 25% of the highest SP tier (150k SP) which would be 30k or so.

This proposed SP reward for killing one NPC is very high, balanced only by the daily limit of 1. In terms of value killed vs SP it's ridiculous.

Those players who accepted the logic that SP in Injectors was earned by someone might agree that SP awarded for kills is ok when it is a result of removing value from the game through destruction.


How would you account for injectors fluctuating in price of it ever happened

Also is it everyone on the kill that get a split like with bounties or is it the final blow?

Goblin had a good system where he paid out based on the percent damage on a killmail.

SP rewarded would need to be a rolling figure based on the trading price of PLEX.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#846 - 2016-04-10 18:59:47 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Kieron VonDeux wrote:
Welcome to the End.

It was fun while it lasted.




While funny, I'd like to point out how counter productive this is. EVERY time there is a change (good or bad) people start talking about the end of EVE and "minus a million accounts!!" and such. Eventually it has a 'crying wolf' affect on people, especially CCP.

Right now Rise and Co. are probably sitting back thinking "hmm, usual end of the world/game hurf blurf, that must mean the idea is fine". This is why I'm careful to say that a change is bad on it's one merits but it probably won't kill the game, like skill trading (which I continue to oppose).

Anger is natural but it doesn't serve to change the minds of the powers that be. Reason does (sometimes lol).


To be honest I don't think any feed back in this thread will stop this change ccp knows is not going to be what many players want but they also know there is enough of them that will do dailies to achieve the goal


This is probably true.
Rain6639
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#847 - 2016-04-10 19:06:27 UTC
There was a comment some pages ago where a player was unhappy about the prospect of logging in ten accounts to run dailies. For some time now I've suspected the business model is moving away from account-heavy players to single-account players who are more active. Just consider for a second that multiple accounts is very unnatural for a video game. And that perhaps if you can bring EVE back to a new normal where you are only balancing for one character per player, maybe that's a good idea.

There are some huge discomforts to experience with one character, and maybe those are the items you would want to tackle first.

Personally I think eventually we'll see EVE limited to one account logged in at a time, as a matter of policy.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#848 - 2016-04-10 19:11:08 UTC
Rain6639 wrote:
There was a comment some pages ago where a player was unhappy about the prospect of logging in ten accounts to run dailies. For some time now I've suspected the business model is moving away from account-heavy players to single-account players who are more active. Just consider for a second that multiple accounts is very unnatural for a video game. And that perhaps if you can bring EVE back to a new normal where you are only balancing for one character per player, maybe that's a good idea.

There are some huge discomforts to experience with one character, and maybe those are the items you would want to tackle first.

Personally I think eventually we'll see EVE limited to one account logged in at a time, as a matter of policy.


be a serious rework of mechanics/rules if they were to limit to 1 account at a time, having to ask other for cyno's etc will create chaos

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Lugh Crow-Slave
#849 - 2016-04-10 19:13:45 UTC
Rain6639 wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Rain6639 wrote:
It's not a stretch of the imagination to understand the benefit of awarding SP for kills eventually. Based on material costs perhaps. In that scenario, value for PLEX kills wouldn't increase the SP reward. Seems like a good measure of contributing to game activity.

Maybe the SP reward could be set by a 75% reduction of benefit compared to Injectors, so for killing an injector's going rate you get 25% of the highest SP tier (150k SP) which would be 30k or so.

This proposed SP reward for killing one NPC is very high, balanced only by the daily limit of 1. In terms of value killed vs SP it's ridiculous.

Those players who accepted the logic that SP in Injectors was earned by someone might agree that SP awarded for kills is ok when it is a result of removing value from the game through destruction.


How would you account for injectors fluctuating in price of it ever happened

Also is it everyone on the kill that get a split like with bounties or is it the final blow?

Goblin had a good system where he paid out based on the percent damage on a killmail.

SP rewarded would need to be a rolling figure based on the trading price of PLEX.


Now this defiantly favors older players over newer ones

And what I meant by the price not being set is what if some group tanks the market price of injectors in order to exploit this. Not saying it's likely or easy but it is a possibility to be accounted for

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Rain6639
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#850 - 2016-04-10 19:35:50 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Rain6639 wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Rain6639 wrote:
It's not a stretch of the imagination to understand the benefit of awarding SP for kills eventually. Based on material costs perhaps. In that scenario, value for PLEX kills wouldn't increase the SP reward. Seems like a good measure of contributing to game activity.

Maybe the SP reward could be set by a 75% reduction of benefit compared to Injectors, so for killing an injector's going rate you get 25% of the highest SP tier (150k SP) which would be 30k or so.

This proposed SP reward for killing one NPC is very high, balanced only by the daily limit of 1. In terms of value killed vs SP it's ridiculous.

Those players who accepted the logic that SP in Injectors was earned by someone might agree that SP awarded for kills is ok when it is a result of removing value from the game through destruction.


How would you account for injectors fluctuating in price of it ever happened

Also is it everyone on the kill that get a split like with bounties or is it the final blow?

Goblin had a good system where he paid out based on the percent damage on a killmail.

SP rewarded would need to be a rolling figure based on the trading price of PLEX.


Now this defiantly favors older players over newer ones

And what I meant by the price not being set is what if some group tanks the market price of injectors in order to exploit this. Not saying it's likely or easy but it is a possibility to be accounted for

Considering that SP and by extension Injectors are the crack cocaine of EVE I don't see this type of manipulation being possible. Local manipulation was solved with Forex, and the Greater EVE Market Cabal is only so good at manipulation either. The group you're imagining would need more market pull and coordination than anyone in EVE ever.
Rain6639
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#851 - 2016-04-10 19:37:02 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Rain6639 wrote:
There was a comment some pages ago where a player was unhappy about the prospect of logging in ten accounts to run dailies. For some time now I've suspected the business model is moving away from account-heavy players to single-account players who are more active. Just consider for a second that multiple accounts is very unnatural for a video game. And that perhaps if you can bring EVE back to a new normal where you are only balancing for one character per player, maybe that's a good idea.

There are some huge discomforts to experience with one character, and maybe those are the items you would want to tackle first.

Personally I think eventually we'll see EVE limited to one account logged in at a time, as a matter of policy.


be a serious rework of mechanics/rules if they were to limit to 1 account at a time, having to ask other for cyno's etc will create chaos

And scouting. The difficulty is in the suck factor of being a guy who just sits there doing something. Still it's not something that can't be forced on CCP's end or solved with a culture shift on the player end.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#852 - 2016-04-10 19:37:31 UTC
Rain6639 wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Rain6639 wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Rain6639 wrote:
It's not a stretch of the imagination to understand the benefit of awarding SP for kills eventually. Based on material costs perhaps. In that scenario, value for PLEX kills wouldn't increase the SP reward. Seems like a good measure of contributing to game activity.

Maybe the SP reward could be set by a 75% reduction of benefit compared to Injectors, so for killing an injector's going rate you get 25% of the highest SP tier (150k SP) which would be 30k or so.

This proposed SP reward for killing one NPC is very high, balanced only by the daily limit of 1. In terms of value killed vs SP it's ridiculous.

Those players who accepted the logic that SP in Injectors was earned by someone might agree that SP awarded for kills is ok when it is a result of removing value from the game through destruction.


How would you account for injectors fluctuating in price of it ever happened

Also is it everyone on the kill that get a split like with bounties or is it the final blow?

Goblin had a good system where he paid out based on the percent damage on a killmail.

SP rewarded would need to be a rolling figure based on the trading price of PLEX.


Now this defiantly favors older players over newer ones

And what I meant by the price not being set is what if some group tanks the market price of injectors in order to exploit this. Not saying it's likely or easy but it is a possibility to be accounted for

Considering that SP and by extension Injectors are the crack cocaine of EVE I don't see this type of manipulation being possible. Local manipulation was solved with Forex, and the Greater EVE Market Cabal is only so good at manipulation either. The group you're imagining would need more market pull and coordination than anyone in EVE ever.


I think people said a similar thing about anyone buying enough to max out a toon

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Rain6639
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#853 - 2016-04-10 19:37:50 UTC
guy or girl.
Rain6639
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#854 - 2016-04-10 19:40:31 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:

I think people said a similar thing about anyone buying enough to max out a toon

No they didn't. The wealth ceiling was always known to be high enough that someone would power level a character.

Controlling the price of PLEX or Injectors is something players would love to do already but it's impossible. To do it someone would have to drive down the price of Injectors AND other players would have to avoid buying them.
Rain6639
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#855 - 2016-04-10 19:43:01 UTC
good ******* luck with that
Carrion Crow
Head Like a Hole.
#856 - 2016-04-10 20:29:01 UTC
CCP you are probably going to implement this, no matter how much negative feedback you get.

However, before you do I ask you to consider this from the persective of new players ( who I belive this is aimed at ).


The thrill and lure of eve is not from quicker skill progression or shooting a predetermined rat to get a daily gift.


Eve is a universe. A complex one and a dangerous one.

The sense of achievement comes from accomplishing real goals in this universe:


The first trip into lawless space...

The shakes you get in your first pvp fight...

The sense of overwhelming incredulity as you make your first solo kill...

Venturing into a wormhole that says "deadly"...


If anything, new kids should be rewarded with "skills" for hitting these amazing life stages.

Not for undocking to kill some random hisec NPC.


Make eve better. Make the beginning of the game mean something.
Rain6639
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#857 - 2016-04-10 20:36:35 UTC
lol if you think you'll have any luck finding a high sec NPC after this
Rain6639
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#858 - 2016-04-10 20:37:23 UTC
hell yes I won the high sec NPC lotto today yyyyayyyyy
Rain6639
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#859 - 2016-04-10 20:38:12 UTC
I can already see the blobs waiting for the belt NPC to spawn in every system in high sec.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#860 - 2016-04-10 20:59:19 UTC
Carrion Crow wrote:
CCP you are probably going to implement this, no matter how much negative feedback you get.

However, before you do I ask you to consider this from the persective of new players ( who I belive this is aimed at ).


The thrill and lure of eve is not from quicker skill progression or shooting a predetermined rat to get a daily gift.


Eve is a universe. A complex one and a dangerous one.

The sense of achievement comes from accomplishing real goals in this universe:


The first trip into lawless space...

The shakes you get in your first pvp fight...

The sense of overwhelming incredulity as you make your first solo kill...

Venturing into a wormhole that says "deadly"...


If anything, new kids should be rewarded with "skills" for hitting these amazing life stages.

Not for undocking to kill some random hisec NPC.


Make eve better. Make the beginning of the game mean something.










See sp for achievements is much better as this guides people and shows them what they can do not what they need to do . And it's up to the player at what pace they want to do it.

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble