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Fermin Mascagranzas
Contubernium
Fraternity.
#621 - 2016-04-09 15:34:07 UTC


Daily quests? Yea why not.

And we could also put a system that match you automatically with other pilots to make a DED and hell, even teleport you there, and we could have instanced PVP in special ships that really don´t broke, and we could create PVE servers.

Wait, why stop there? We can get rid of spaceshit and wear armor, and staves, and swords, and a DAMMNED ORCHARD in wich farm daily what we need for our strongest potions.

And then we drink bleach and die.
Ruby Gnollo
#622 - 2016-04-09 15:40:36 UTC
Nicen Jehr wrote:
do it like dust, offer multiple missions per day with small random rewards including SP, ISK, LP, loot
if I was a new player i'd be thrilled to see an ingame reward of a frigate for killing 3 lowsec rats


I'd really love that, since it'll be then end of NS big powers, gate camps and other quite stupid activities, and might even make playing Eve attractive to newcomers.
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#623 - 2016-04-09 15:42:43 UTC
Roro Zoro wrote:
As a 2m SP player i welcome this addition.


We were all low sp pilots at one point. I feel you on that.

However, given everything we know at this point about keeping new players interested until they get to that magic SP number where they can fly enough of the things they want to, and have all the enabling support skills, the problem should be addressed in other ways. Namely, I can't help but see you are in an NPC corp. If you like exploration, why haven't you checked out Signal Cartel, etc? Having reasons to log in, like buddies and things to do together, is not only a better reason to log in, it's a far more effective at getting content rolling. It's a proven fact that joining a corp, getting ganked, wardecced, etc, essentially having New Eden (in any of its many, many incarnations) say Hi to you is the most effective way to get you to want to say Hi back.

If they rewarded new players with SP for being in a player run corp, even though it would be gamed and abused by some, ineffective for others, it would actually push new blood to interact with the game, whereas this, so far, is just an annoyance.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
Terianna Eri
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#624 - 2016-04-09 15:44:04 UTC
This seems very much not in the spirit of EVE. If this is implemented I think it should only apply to characters below, say, 5 million or 10 million SP.

10,000 SP is about 4 hours of training (~2,500 sp/hr), which is a 16% increase in skill training per day - that's a huge amount!

It's such a huge amount that I think people will feel obligated to do it, and therefore resent it.

That said, I like - in principle - the idea of getting more people to undock.

The problem with this idea though is that it takes hardly any time to kill one rat - undock, warp to belt, kill frigate, dock is maybe 5 minutes total? - that it's unlikely to drive much interaction with hostiles. And making it per character is, I think, pretty scary. I know technically it's not a 'requirement' but with such a huge payoff for such a small investment, I know if I had like... 10 characters training, I'd be trying to do this every day.

So that's 5 minutes each per 10 characters - about an hour of (tedious) work for me and with none of those excursions being likely to drive inter-player content.

It reminds me of the old learning skills where if you DID train them first, you had a huge advantage over time, but the act of slogging through those skills was such a pain that it drove away a lot of people. I note that CCP wisely eventually removed these.

I don't like the idea of "SP reward for completing content" in general, but here's how I'd change it:
1) Give people more flexibility in when and how they complete the activities - not "do X every day and Y happens" or even "do X every week and Y happens." Rather, I think something like "Do X at least 7/30/100/whatever times a month and Y happens at the end of the month". This removes the "do this EVERY DAY or fall behind" idea to which I think a lot of people are averse.
3) Limit the amount of SP a character can gain from this every month - say... to 5 times or something. This is a different way of addressing the "do this every day or fall behind" issue.
3) Cap it to characters at 5 million or 10 million SP.

That's all I've got.

As a final thought EVE has been, from the beginning, a long-term game where many people don't need to log in to progress. This is reflected in the long skills, the ability to set up market orders and contracts, etc.. Daily activity rewards - especially for something as huge as SP and in such a magnitude - seem to violate that idea.
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
SL33PERS
#625 - 2016-04-09 15:44:41 UTC
How could the CSM let this happen to us?
Tyrant Scorn
#626 - 2016-04-09 15:48:21 UTC
I don't see the problem, really... If you don't shoot NPC's, you just don't get the tiny bonus, other then that, nothing is going to change for you.

Ya'll are screaming like something is being taken away from you.

The Tyrant King

YouTube | Twitter | Twitch
Anataine Deva
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#627 - 2016-04-09 15:58:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Anataine Deva
The current skill point system rewards player with long term subscription. Bad for people who play every week an other game, good for people who stick with Eve.

SPs as reward for grinding is a slap in the face to those, who paid and supported this game for years. It's a slap in the face to those who gave you CCP employees the opportunity to work on this special game.

As many times mentioned before, if you want people to spend more time in-game, make it more interesting with content not with bribing.

I'm really surprised that a game developer with hundreds of employees, can't come up with better ideas. Maybe that's the real problem.

Give The BIG Lottery a try (it's conform with the EULA) and me your Fedos!
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#628 - 2016-04-09 15:58:05 UTC
Tyrant Scorn wrote:
I don't see the problem, really... If you don't shoot NPC's, you just don't get the tiny bonus, other then that, nothing is going to change for you.

Ya'll are screaming like something is being taken away from you.

Sure thing. Next step in the daily tasks: Accept a mission in your station/citadel to be allowed to repair your ship. Do a market task to receive 1M ISK. Buy a SKIN to be able to train a skill for another month. Talk to a player in order to be able to buy something on the market. Get your ship destroyed in order to be able to buy something in the market. Extract some skills to be allowed to engage in PVP.

But who am I talking to? The great unwashed won't see the problem, even after CCP literally broke their own assertion from just weeks ago.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Drammie Askold
Hideaway Hunters
The Hideaway.
#629 - 2016-04-09 16:14:41 UTC
CCP Rise, thank you for reading this thread, as I'm sure you will, (most of it anyway - skim over the rants). Eve players are a pretty intelligent bunch so we both know what is going on here. This is a cheap and tacky way of bribing players to get a quick boost to the log-in numbers. I am not, by the way, blaming you for this idea which WILL of course be implemented as it comes from WAY above your pay-grade. You just got given the job of fronting it to the player-base.

I strongly believe that this very bad idea originates from a recent hire who is interested in EVE and CCP only as a way-point on their career path to Obscenely Rich Early Retiree. Increasing the log-in numbers, which will happen in the short term, will make a nice entry on the CV of such a person.

For those of us who love Eve, and those who make their living from it, the prognosis isn't quite so rosy. This is the thin end of a VERY thick wedge which I do hope can be prevented from going in too far.

As the blessed St. Reptilicus said "Some days you can't get a drink on the cuff anyplace."
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#630 - 2016-04-09 16:15:31 UTC
this idea was thought up at 4:55pm on a friday evening just before everyone was leaving for the pub

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Roro Zoro
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#631 - 2016-04-09 16:18:32 UTC
Vic Jefferson wrote:
Roro Zoro wrote:
As a 2m SP player i welcome this addition.


We were all low sp pilots at one point. I feel you on that.

However, given everything we know at this point about keeping new players interested until they get to that magic SP number where they can fly enough of the things they want to, and have all the enabling support skills, the problem should be addressed in other ways. Namely, I can't help but see you are in an NPC corp. If you like exploration, why haven't you checked out Signal Cartel, etc? Having reasons to log in, like buddies and things to do together, is not only a better reason to log in, it's a far more effective at getting content rolling. It's a proven fact that joining a corp, getting ganked, wardecced, etc, essentially having New Eden (in any of its many, many incarnations) say Hi to you is the most effective way to get you to want to say Hi back.

If they rewarded new players with SP for being in a player run corp, even though it would be gamed and abused by some, ineffective for others, it would actually push new blood to interact with the game, whereas this, so far, is just an annoyance.


Yep, you are right, i am only back to the game for a week after a long time and i am waiting just a bit to find a good corp. Being in a player run corp definitely makes the game A LOT more fun. I remember when i started the game i joined a corp and after a couple days they got wardecced. It was a bit scary for a fresh player like me but it was also exciting.

Awarding players with SP to join player run corps is a really good idea and probably a better alternative, but we all know that the reason they do the Daily op is the same as every other game is doing it, bump the numbers ;p
The games population is decreasing over time and they have to act quickly to fix it, it may be far from a problematic number but you have to adress these issues very very early.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#632 - 2016-04-09 16:42:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
WoW


I remember when having a life meant I wasn't at to much of a disadvantage

I'm already uncomfortable with this first purposed idea to be implemented in dread to think what other menial task I will need to do to stay competitive.



What happened to the game where I was given tools and expected to make something with them. Given little to no guidance or push in any particular direction :/

Are things really that bad at ccp that you need to implement something like this to get numbers up?

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
ACESsiggy
Deaths Consortium
#633 - 2016-04-09 17:00:51 UTC
Pretty interesting stuff. +1

I approve.

“The open-minded see the truth in different things: the narrow-minded see only the differences.”
Baygun
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#634 - 2016-04-09 17:01:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Baygun
(+) SP booster is GOOD (as long as we have to accumulate massive amounts to be effective and not for fun)
(+) that will undermine the price of skill injectors heavily. as well as price for empty syringes will skyrocket. perhaps that will balance a bit use of skill injectors

(-) Concept of SP is outdated and obsolete legacy mechanic. I'd scrap it altogether, having that recently announced competitive projects does not have "character leveling"
(-) Dailies are bad
(-) this will not affect all players - only ratters will see the bonus - some players consider it a mortal sin to undock, others to shoot anything than carebares.


From my modest experience in the game i noticed that people log-in and even resub when there is content like a great war or many people to scam in Jita. I believe devs know best how to produce such results with minimal efforts :)
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#635 - 2016-04-09 17:04:35 UTC
Roro Zoro wrote:
As a 2m SP player i welcome this addition. Gathering SP to do (more) fun stuff takes a lot of time, like now i am training to T2 frigates for exploration and i need a whole month for all the skills, a little bump/boost is very welcome and gives the incentive to login every day.
I guess that this addition is to boost the concurrent users and breath a bit more life into the game, i think its a good way but yeah dont make this world of warcraft.Tthese daily oportunities should be very limited, dont make the players feel that they HAVE TO do a bunch of dailies, its exausting.
But killing a simple rat, just to make people login is very easy and a good approach.

I understand that this is a little beyond the nature of the game for many people but skill extractors were the same, and those are limited to rich players.
We "poor" players would very much like this daily opportunity, it takes quite long to learn some "basic skills" but maybe limiting to low sp character or introducing diminishing returns on the reward for high SP players will solve the problem.


I understand that you're motivated to "catch up" more quickly, but please give some thought as to whether this is the best mechanism to facilitate this.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Aliana Heartborne
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#636 - 2016-04-09 17:13:38 UTC
Hooray for padding log in numbers! (...)

How about actually making stuff fun to do so people will log in more often naturally? Like having missions not be static and not the exact same thing over and over again?
Midnight Hope
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#637 - 2016-04-09 17:14:33 UTC
Tyrant Scorn wrote:
I don't see the problem, really... If you don't shoot NPC's, you just don't get the tiny bonus, other then that, nothing is going to change for you.

Ya'll are screaming like something is being taken away from you.



This is just the beggining. This is the start of the slippery slope where we end up with actual XP for playing (ala WOW) not for subscribing.

Also, this is the easy crappy way out. Because if the purpose is to have more people log in and play, then why not make the game actually interesting and engaging?

Like adding more features? Comet mining? Proper T3 frigates? (not the easy way out of the t3 destroyers).
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#638 - 2016-04-09 17:15:42 UTC
Midnight Hope wrote:
Because if the purpose is to have more people log in and play, then why not make the game actually interesting and engaging?




RING A DING EFFING DING

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Quesa
Macabre Votum
Northern Coalition.
#639 - 2016-04-09 17:18:47 UTC
I think this is a really horrible idea in a fairly scary trend of recent changes. I was late to the party when discussing the skill injectors, of which I think is a horrible idea and antithetical to what the game truly is and purports to be.

A daily reward that in any way rewards players with SP, or even an SP training buff, should not be implemented. SP is not a resource that should be rewarded to players except in times of server instability.

This really seems like a way to improve daily numbers in a game where logging in daily isn't, and shouldn't, be a necessity.
Big Lynx
#640 - 2016-04-09 17:27:34 UTC
Ria Nieyli wrote:
How could the CSM let this happen to us?

Cause CSM is useless like a peen on the pope.