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Recurring Opportunities coming soon

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Black Pedro
Mine.
#2541 - 2016-06-18 13:34:34 UTC
sero Hita wrote:
Don't forget that people can have started up to 13-n (n being the years you yourself have played) years earlier than you. Black pedro is so caught up in his "being competative" stick, that he forgets the time and ressource bias present in EVE. Doing the extra daily does not make you competative with the 13 year old trillionaires in EVE anyway. Both you and the older player will still be able to enjoy playing EVE and make a profit, though. This is where Black Pedro is failing, thinking that equalizing min/max every parameter and being the best has practical implications in this game (Does it really matter if you are number 1, 5000 or 150000 most efficient player in EVE, if you can do what you want?). It does not.
The value of those SP is real. The in-game advantage of those SP is real. You are welcome to leave them on the table as you choose, but you cannot deny they are desirable. In fact, CCP Rise explicitly said they choose that reward as it was desirable.

Eve is a sandbox and you can play many ways. It's your subscription so do what you want. But you will be less competitive in this game relative to your peers if your choose not to take the daily bonus for whatever reason, and that gap in power will only grow. That is the reality. Sure, you will never likely catch up with those that started many years before you, but you will be relatively weaker and poorer to those players that started when you did who do regularly cash in the daily. That is a fact.

But if you aren't trying to compete, then do what you want. I don't care if you never put a skill in your skill queue and spend your time in Eve just visiting every system in your rookie ship and just chatting with the locals. But if we go head-to-head in a PvP contest, I will have an advantage for collecting those SP while you were too lazy to be bothered. Perhaps that advantage won't make a difference, but it very well could, which is the motivation CCP is relying on to get people to log in.

I still don't see what you two are arguing with me for. All I have said is that I would like there to be additional criteria to earn your daily activity bonus other than ratting, something that CCP Rise says they intend to do. If you would like to present a case why they should not expand the feature and just stick with the shoot-a-single-NPC activity criteria, I am all ears. Otherwise, I don't think this discussion of the ethereal concept of what motivates players is going to be very productive given we all all play for many different combinations of reasons.

Do what you want though. I'll be cashing in that daily bonus everytime I log in and be stronger than you for it.

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2542 - 2016-06-18 20:59:13 UTC  |  Edited by: sero Hita
Black Pedro wrote:


But if you aren't trying to compete, then do what you want. I don't care if you never put a skill in your skill queue and spend your time in Eve just visiting every system in your rookie ship and just chatting with the locals. But if we go head-to-head in a PvP contest, I will have an advantage for collecting those SP while you were too lazy to be bothered. Perhaps that advantage won't make a difference, but it very well could, which is the motivation CCP is relying on to get people to log in.

Again with the assumptions, you will only have an advantage (a super small one) if we all started with the same amount of SPs, trained with the same rate, we have same player skills, you collect the bonus i do not and we fly the same hulls, with the same fittings and implants. If this is not the case your SP advantage means nothing. And when have you had a fight like that on TQ? Someone always has another advantage that overules the the small SP bonus (if brawl scrams kite it is game over almost regardless of SP) . This is what I try to open that closed mind of yours to.
Edit:
Black Pedro wrote:

Sure, you will never likely catch up with those that started many years before you, but you will be relatively weaker and poorer to those players that started when you did who do regularly cash in the daily. That is a fact.

Edit: Only if we play the same amount of time and get the same payout for the activities we do. Again how often does this happen outside of the theoretical mindgames? And the thing is should we evaluate the dailies after the theoretical effect, or consider what is the netto effect on TQ, and perhaps accept it is not the end of the world as other things are more unbalances than SP from dailies
Black Pedro wrote:

I still don't see what you two are arguing with me for. All I have said is that I would like there to be additional criteria to earn your daily activity bonus other than ratting, something that CCP Rise says they intend to do. If you would like to present a case why they should not expand the feature and just stick with the shoot-a-single-NPC activity criteria, I am all ears. Otherwise, I don't think this discussion of the ethereal concept of what motivates players is going to be very productive given we all all play for many different combinations of reasons.

Well we have established that I agree with the point of more criteria, but that is not all you have said though. What leads to us arguing with you, is that you keep insisting that this is such a big advantage to do the dailies that is it is mandatory, just repeating repeating that statement. And then you do not consider that in the complex background of tranquility even if you have an advantage in SP you can still get you killed by someone with less SP but who has better playerskills, more ISK does not mean you can "win" in trading as it is depending on who is 0.01 isking when someone is selling(If you ahve a big market like Jita). As long as you keep making your simpleminded comments who are not put into context of the complexity of TQ, I would also keep discussing it. the thing is more activities should be included to the dailies, and I am sure they will be. But people are just complaining to much about the effect of the dailies IMO.
Black Pedro wrote:

Do what you want though. I'll be cashing in that daily bonus everytime I log in and be stronger than you for it.

Lol, such narrowmindedness. If I have more SP than you, fly a ship that counter yours or have better player skills will you still be stronger than me? that is the thing TQ is already unbalanced, so don't do something you don't like for just 20% more SP (and then complain about how you feel forced into doing it). Even if you don't hunt the dailies you will often run into someone who is weaker than you anyway or oppotunities to earn ISK anyway.

"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
Black Pedro
Mine.
#2543 - 2016-06-20 06:44:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Black Pedro
sero Hita wrote:

Lol, such narrowmindedness. If I have more SP than you, fly a ship that counter yours or have better player skills will you still be stronger than me? that is the thing TQ is already unbalanced, so don't do something you don't like for just 20% more SP (and then complain about how you feel forced into doing it). Even if you don't hunt the dailies you will often run into someone who is weaker than you anyway or oppotunities to earn ISK anyway.
Narrowmindness? Lol. SP and assets provide a very real and tangible advantage in this game. Of course they are not the sole determinant of any outcome. Player skill, strategic and tactical decisions and your allies have a massive impact on any PvP encounter as it should be for an interesting video game. But the whole point of a persistent, single-world MMO is that your character progression and assets impact on the game and that is indeed the case for Eve, especially for solo and small gang PvP encounters, or industrial or market PvP where it is not who has the biggest blob wins.

So, given two players that start at the same time and play a similar amount, the one that collects the free SP will have a significant advantage over the other player that doesn't. That is a fact. This is a reality of a single-universe competitive game. The industrialist who trains those science skills first will have a competitive advantage researching T2 blueprints before their competitors and will make more ISK. The trader will have more market orders faster and build their capital faster. The combat PvPer will eek out those final skills before their opponents.

Sure you can throw up your hands and say there will always be someone better than you, or you might be outnumbered or outplayed but that doesn't mean you still won't be relatively better off than your competitors over time if you collect these easy SP and they don't. If you can't see that, you really don't get what kind of game you are playing. That's fine, understanding what type of game Eve Online is isn't a prerequisite to play as evidenced by the large number of completely clueless posts that appear on these forums.

Again, do what you want. That's the great thing about Eve: you can play anyway you choose, including completely sub-optimally.

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
Geronimo McVain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2544 - 2016-06-20 09:41:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Geronimo McVain
You are right, but it's just untill some point where both have the same skillset for the activity. Maybe one earlier then the other but in the end both have the same skillset. The other one may have more opportunities but for the frig fight it doesn't matter if he can research T2 modules or not. And I doubt that many people will fit officer modules on PvP frigs.
With your argumentation PvP is a waste of resources because you are loosing money.

But I don't understand why you are complaining. Dailies give you more money then any other activity and you are still complaining about it. Is station trading more thrilling? Hauling? Mission running? I really doubt that you will ever get the dailys for "gank a miner" or "shoot a transport at Jita".
Black Pedro
Mine.
#2545 - 2016-06-20 10:51:12 UTC
Geronimo McVain wrote:
But I don't understand why you are complaining. Dailies give you more money then any other activity and you are still complaining about it. Is station trading more thrilling? Hauling? Mission running? I really doubt that you will ever get the dailys for "gank a miner" or "shoot a transport at Jita".
Shooting a single rat is pointless busy work. It was not interesting the first time, and will be down-right tedious the 1000th time. Really, if CCP wants to reward activity in a sandbox game, they should just reward people for logging in. I mean, updating the skill queue they claim this is meant to replace required not much more than that. But if CCP want something more concrete, I'll take anything that actually involves playing Eve: updating some market orders, building something, running an exploration site, shooting another player, scanning something down, mining some gas, taking a gate or wormhole, earning LP. Ideally I should earn the reward without changing my game play given the feature is intended only to get me to log-in daily, not force me to rat. Once I log-in I should retain the freedom to play Eve the way I choose as befits a sandbox game.

I am asking CCP to follow through on what CCP Rise stated they already intend to do. I fully realize they will still need time to collect and analyze the data, but this feature has significantly changed the incentive structure of the game and made the first few minutes of my game session less enjoyable. However, providing more choice in how to earn that reward will help alleviate the tedium and should lessen the effect of this feature on skewing sandbox play.

So how 'bout it CCP Rise? Any chance of an update on how the feature is working or at least some time frame on when you will evaluate the success of the feature and announce further iterations?

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#2546 - 2016-06-20 11:30:38 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:
So how 'bout it CCP Rise? Any chance of an update on how the feature is working or at least some time frame on when you will evaluate the success of the feature and announce further iterations?

I'd like to hear on that too. Dailies should be removed from EVE, and we eager to know when it will happen.
Geronimo McVain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2547 - 2016-06-20 13:48:54 UTC
You need some activity that even a 5min old char can do so Shooting a rat is a very good choice.
It would be nice to have all the activities counting for the dailies but then I want a option to opt out toons. I don't want to be forced to start my toon in a certain succession because I want the SP on a certain toon and not on another alt just by accident. The question is: how much energy will CCP put into dailies to include other activities.
Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2548 - 2016-06-22 11:14:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Pelea Ming
Personally, I think it would be more useful if the timer of the 'daily' events were based on downtime.

My reasoning thus is simple... if I wake up and do my daily in the middle of the night, as it is now, I have to then continue waking up in the middle of the night to run them or basically miss a day to reset it to an earlier time of the day again.

Whereas, if it's keyed off of downtime, then anytime on any day I can run it once, and not risk missing a day unless something comes up that I just can't make logging in that day.
Circumstantial Evidence
#2549 - 2016-06-23 21:23:40 UTC
This thread has essentially come to a close, with an announcement and new thread here: [118.6] Recurring Opportunity removal

Stats:

Top Ten most prolific:
Lugh Crow-Slave    239 (9,4%) 
Frostys Virpio     100 (3,9%) 
Lan Wang            52 (2,0%) 
Rain6639            50 (2,0%) 
Ria Nieyli          47 (1,8%) 
Jeremiah Saken      43 (1,7%) 
Indahmawar Fazmarai 40 (1,6%) 
Erihn Sabrovich     39 (1,5%) 
Axhind              36 (1,4%) 
Tippia              32 (1,3%)

Longest post: Tippia
Neadayan Drakhon
Heuristic Industrial And Development
AddictClan
#2550 - 2016-06-23 21:49:38 UTC
Circumstantial Evidence wrote:
This thread has essentially come to a close, with an announcement and new thread here: [118.6] Recurring Opportunity removal

Stats:

Top Ten most prolific:
Lugh Crow-Slave    239 (9,4%) 
Frostys Virpio     100 (3,9%) 
Lan Wang            52 (2,0%) 
Rain6639            50 (2,0%) 
Ria Nieyli          47 (1,8%) 
Jeremiah Saken      43 (1,7%) 
Indahmawar Fazmarai 40 (1,6%) 
Erihn Sabrovich     39 (1,5%) 
Axhind              36 (1,4%) 
Tippia              32 (1,3%)

Longest post: Tippia


dangit, I was 11th most prolific P I'll have to try harder next time
Jagati Khan81
Trinity Collective Co.
DammFam
#2551 - 2016-06-28 12:07:00 UTC
Recurring SP mission was a good idea bring it back and make it a little harder with some variations.
P.s. Just back from a 4 year break just for the record
Bobman Smith
Solitary Confinement 4 One
#2552 - 2016-06-30 01:09:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Bobman Smith
Just my 2 cents on the new daily Scope Quests:

SP Bonuses:
The daily SP thing was a little simple and I can see how it wont really meet the goals of bringing people online more often. However I kinda like the idea of having a means to work for and add SP to my toons. The injector system actually takes SP out of the game permanently but still a nice feature to trade with. But it does leave the game in an SP deflationary situation. So I hope that as small as the relive gains are, say 10 to 15% more SP over time bonus over the skill que for active daily players, we have a means to introduce some SP into the game that requires activity.

More Low Sec content:
Make the Scope quests only available in LOW SEC and WH. Low sec needs a little connect love and I think the Scope quests will add that extra little bit of incentive for people to do things in low sec other then just PVP. Its still low sec, and its still subject to the risks of mining/ratting quests were getting out of the Scope Quests. The PVPers will rejoice as their is more targets. The rewards: SP. Those points we earn can add up into buying injectors that can be used to improve our toons or be sold into the markets for the high/null residence. Does not need to be an ISK faucet, just to supplement the incentives to live in LOW Sec and do things other then FW or strait up PVP.

And if you feel you want to keep some of the activities for HIGH sec... Make it so it progresses. Using mining as an example. The first random mining related missions starts with the things you can mining in high and low sec. Frigate rats etc. But as you do more of them during the 40 days or so this event goes on for, they progress into LOW sec rats/rocks. Make it so it progress to so that the High SECers get their bronze but cant realistically achieve the silver or gold standing that you can achieve with the Low Sec payouts. Maybe with a lot of time spent grinding out in High might you get the Silver... But again, goal would be to use this to push people into low sec space.

I cant find the rewards for Bronze, Silver, and Gold... so pardon my ignorance on that while I suggest something.

Bronze rewards for SP: Can only earn SP for the toon that got the points.
Silver reward: injector
Gold: 2+ injectors

Balance this in your own way mind you but I hope this paints a picture/plants a seed for what I think would make great use of this new Daily Content stuff.

T3 immune to remote reps. They should be the most powerful solo/small gang ships but not useful for large fleets as T2 ships should be used. Remove Insurance from game. Ban Frigate Pirate Ships from Novice FW Plexs. Buy me Ice cream please!
Koldais
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2553 - 2016-07-01 19:53:42 UTC
Took out the 10,000SP daily and replaced it with garbage only people without a job, family or life can do?

This is the only way I can express my disgust to CPP

http://s369.photobucket.com/user/koldfusion77/media/Buycot_CCP.jpg.html
Astrid Farnsworth
Broke and Famous
#2554 - 2016-07-01 23:44:36 UTC
Koldais wrote:
Took out the 10,000SP daily and replaced it with garbage only people without a job, family or life can do?

This is the only way I can express my disgust to CPP

http://s369.photobucket.com/user/koldfusion77/media/Buycot_CCP.jpg.html



But its fine, no one force you to play the game you dont like. Have a nice AWAY frim eve time, and see you.

"Amateurs talk about tactics, but professionals study logistics." - Gen. Robert H. Barrow, USMC (Commandant of the Marine Corps) noted in 1980**strong text**
KaarBaak
Squirrel Team
#2555 - 2016-07-05 22:33:58 UTC
Koldais wrote:
Took out the 10,000SP daily and replaced it with garbage only people without a job, family or life can do?

This is the only way I can express my disgust to CPP

http://s369.photobucket.com/user/koldfusion77/media/Buycot_CCP.jpg.html

What...um....what did you do say...2 months ago...before the SP misfire? You could just do that?

KB

Dum Spiro Spero
DrysonBennington
Eagle's Talon's
#2556 - 2016-07-14 14:34:25 UTC
Recurring Opportunities is a good thing. But I would suggest not running them all of the time or the Pilot's will grow weary of them and they will simply take of server and bandwidth processes.

I suggest running them for a month at a time change the events to include different NPC's and then offer the event every three to four months.

DrysonBennington
Eagle's Talon's
#2557 - 2016-07-14 14:36:24 UTC
KaarBaak wrote:
Koldais wrote:
Took out the 10,000SP daily and replaced it with garbage only people without a job, family or life can do?

This is the only way I can express my disgust to CPP

http://s369.photobucket.com/user/koldfusion77/media/Buycot_CCP.jpg.html

What...um....what did you do say...2 months ago...before the SP misfire? You could just do that?

KB



Life isn't catered to those with families or a life as you call it. You cater your existence to your own needs so stop blaming others for your inadequacies.
Big Z1776
256th Shadow Wing
Phantom-Recon
#2558 - 2016-07-15 06:24:28 UTC
As a 2 Million SP guy I can say that I really liked having the daily, especially with the skills I need to get into my Corp's doctrines, which I can't realistically fly without several weeks of being dead weight. Thankfully we have a fit master and a few really experienced pilots who've been tutoring me, but being able to knock out the I and II on a skill when they say "Train that" is huge for me. To put it in perspective I have a true story of the impact the dailies could have for me last week. And I'm sure this could apply in other variants to other equally new guys and gals out there.

We were going to be going on a stealth bomber roam, kinda on-the-spur of the moment, but I was really looking forward to it, I'd been doing research, watching Bomber Bay vids, and practicing on Test Server with some Injectors my Corp-mates gave me by extracting their own useless SP from alts. I was however six hours short on Cloaking IV, I could've gotten my daily, applied it, and probably have gone with them, but no daily, so I spent the night waiting between rocks being depleted. It sucked, and I'm sure many others have had that happen since the dailies have gone and before Eve had them. So just from the POV of a new guy I can say that the dailies were huge, and it made me get on each day, that's how I met my current corp actually, saw one ratting doing my daily, saw he was in a corp asked about it and now I'm one of them. It's not just the SP, it's really the experience for guys like me that it helps, and that's why I started playing.
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#2559 - 2016-07-18 02:56:05 UTC
Big Z1776 wrote:
As a 2 Million SP guy I can say that I really liked having the daily, especially with the skills I need to get into my Corp's doctrines, which I can't realistically fly without several weeks of being dead weight. Thankfully we have a fit master and a few really experienced pilots who've been tutoring me, but being able to knock out the I and II on a skill when they say "Train that" is huge for me. To put it in perspective I have a true story of the impact the dailies could have for me last week. And I'm sure this could apply in other variants to other equally new guys and gals out there.

We were going to be going on a stealth bomber roam, kinda on-the-spur of the moment, but I was really looking forward to it, I'd been doing research, watching Bomber Bay vids, and practicing on Test Server with some Injectors my Corp-mates gave me by extracting their own useless SP from alts. I was however six hours short on Cloaking IV, I could've gotten my daily, applied it, and probably have gone with them, but no daily, so I spent the night waiting between rocks being depleted. It sucked, and I'm sure many others have had that happen since the dailies have gone and before Eve had them. So just from the POV of a new guy I can say that the dailies were huge, and it made me get on each day, that's how I met my current corp actually, saw one ratting doing my daily, saw he was in a corp asked about it and now I'm one of them. It's not just the SP, it's really the experience for guys like me that it helps, and that's why I started playing.



6 hours at 2200 sp/hr or even 2000 sp/hr (i dont know how you are map'ed and what implants) wouldn't of been covered by your dailly and you still would of missed the roam. I just did the math 1666 sp/hr is what you would have to be earning so that the daily is worth 6 hours of training, which i believe would only be possible if no implants and 100% off map but I'm not sure on that one.

Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#2560 - 2016-07-18 02:58:58 UTC
Koldais wrote:
Took out the 10,000SP daily and replaced it with garbage only people without a job, family or life can do?

This is the only way I can express my disgust to CPP

http://s369.photobucket.com/user/koldfusion77/media/Buycot_CCP.jpg.html



you should always cancel reoccurring subscriptions so that you don't forget about them and have them renew. my entire eve carrier has many many cancelled and ccp even has it as an option on there survey of why you canceled.