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While I doubt this post will ever see the light of day down here at post number 2501...

It would be more convenient if the "timer" between 2 occurrences was simply the normal downtime. You would still be unable to do it more than once every 24h on average, but it would make it much easier if there was no timer to keep in mind.

For comparison, see jump clone timers. Admittedly, that issue was slightly different and we had a skill implemented to deal with it. This seems like a quick and easy QoL fix to me though.

Hi,

Please get rid of these stupid dailies. I live in Null Sec, there is so much to do as an industrialist as it is in null, I do not want to have to be forced to do these dailies, I rather you get rid of them than have them at all.

I have a Roqual pilot and I boost for a system from up time to downtime. With these dailies I am forced to find time to do the dailies before I can begin boosting. I am saying forced because since you have introduced these dailies I feel that I have to do them since you are giving away free SP. I shouldn't be put in a situation where I have to decide to do these dailies at all. Also the Rorqual was design specifically to boost without any Gunnery or Missile skills. So now I have to find some kind of ship to go kill a stupid rat in order to for me to gain your stupid 10000 SP. This is not fair at all, anybody doing hordes automatically gets these SP's because its their daily routines.

What about boosters including combat boosters, we do not do any killings but now we have too now. Also miners, not every miner kills rats as most organised industrialist have ether a dedicated miner that does the killing or dedicated ship to do the killing of rats for you. Why are you forcing me to do these dailies. Remove them its not needed.

If you feel its needed then make it fair, give me SP for boosting, give me SP for mining, give me SP for researching and so on. Why killing rat, not everyone does that. Make it fair for everyone, for every play style.

Regards,
Indigo Love-Jones

Agreed, dailies should never have been put in, the fear-of-missing-out (FOMO) you describe is real, CCP is blatantly taking advantage of this.


FOMO is a real thing, it's what makes people feel forced to do things like this even when they consiously know they're optional and no matter how many times people like you say "just don't do them." People with FOMO can't not do it, its *not* optional to them.

It's been said throught this thread, since before this horrible feature was implemented, that optional or not, it won't feel optional to many people. Just because its optional to you doesn't mean it is for everyone.


CCP - GET RID OF DAILIES.

You are not forced though. That is 100% on you if you feel like that. Why should the rest of us not be able to do the dailies, because you have some abnormal feelings about this feature? Grow up and take responsibility for your own life. If you want the SP boost do them, if you are feeling forced don't. That is an active choice you can make as an adult to solve your problem without affecting everyone else.

This would only be true if you define the highest value/hour as the right way of playing. So you are only "literally playing the game wrong if you do not drop everything and get those SP", if you accept the premise that that high value pr hour is the right way to play. I reject your "objective truth", I have another definition of what the goal of EVE online is for me.

Before this the thing you should do according to the crowds unless you where playing the game wrong, was incusions. Only ~8% of the population according to one of the CCP Quant posts if I recall correctly. So with your value/hr definition 92% of players where playing it wrong.



Well I am sure you will now post some general paraphrase from CCP (I don't care what they think this sandbox is about, only what I think it is about tbh.), but I think this is your definition. Futhermore I also don't ackonowledge that this small change has made it so that progress does not matter, unless you have a certain definition of progress.




You are exaggerating IMO, as you as often are having the theoretical/ ideological discussion about feature. You are ignoring that this in reality is one rat, done in two min. for most parts of new eden (and those parts like C6 wormholes where you need more effort has pretty high value/hr anyways). The effort is so little, that I think it is ridiculous to talk about how this forces a certain play style on the day to day basis. Ofc. you can argue this, and you probably will but I don't agree.

Also not only ratters but also miners in asteroid belts, FW plexing, missions runners and even explorers are kiling NPCs regularly. I think these groups combined represent more players than those who do not pop rats (Which is probably why CCP chose this measure for the first iteration. Most of the groups not interacting with NPCs have easy access to npc rats if they really want.

I also have to say, that it is volutarily and I don't care about if you feel forced for whatever reason (FOMO, believing you will lose EVE if not... etc.), that is on you (probably as you define the right way of playing EVE as most Value/time in your example).

TLDR: I disagree with some of your assumptions and think it is blown out of proportion on the theoretical level compared to how it means in pracsis on TQ. You will not suffer considerably if do not do them.

Hell I often forget, but it does not remove the skills I have.. neither SP skills or personal skills and I can still compete to the level where I earn enough to finance my PVP.

the thing is there is ceiling on how much SP you can get pr month but there is none for how much you can earn with other activities... doing the daily you get max 300,000 sp pr month pr account. The price of an injector is 615,000,000 isk, the extractor is 210,000,000 isk jita prizes right now. I will calculate without taxes, meaning the outcome here is better than it really is on tq. 405,000,000 is the difference between injector and extractor. we can train 3/5 injector pr month. which equals 243,000,000 isk pr month. pr account. You can get that with station trading without too much effort... The isk/hr is not interesting in this case IMO. as it is locked to 300,000 SP pr month no matter what you do, you will not earn more than ~243 mill pr month if you sell the SP. So it might be the highest isk/hour activity but it is pretty crappy in isk/month. So it is not as OP as you claim it is, unless ofc. you want to stick to the misleading isk/hr just so it fits your point.

I do compete though, but the funny thing about EVE is that everyone is competing and no one is really competing directly at the same time. Competing as almost everything is player made. Not competing as you do not really know how you are doing in comparrison to other people. A guy who does the daily and one who does not can both earn isk by doing the same buy order as EVE is big enough that both buy order will be filled, and you have no way to block the other guy. Hence how the "opponent" (who is really just your brain coping with that you are competing with everyone at once, without anyone caring about you) is doing does not really affect you directly.

I mean I have been playing EVE for 2 years and I am "competing" with 13 years old trillionaires, and still turning a profit. The competion has little to no real observable effect on me as all I care about is the profit, and i just pick something to buy that gives the profit I am happy with, no matter what the trillionaires of EVE are doing (No matter how much they manipulate, there will always be one thing that is the best to buy and sell profit wise at the time I trade). My point is that it makes no sense to me, arguing that you need to do it to stay competitive as you are actually in praxis only competing with yourself and your own goals in EVE IMO (you have no score board to know how much the others are earning and they cannot directly target you and stop your income).


I don't agree with you, that this really is an deincentive to sandbox activities. I have to be honest most people in my lowsec alliance are pretty chill with this, and have changed habits outside of kiling the one rat. It is only here on the forums I see people who are concerned about that they have to kill a rat. Most people I talk to in game have been positive. I have even been in two fleets the first two days the SP hit, that I would not have been in if I had not logged in to get the SP (I know this anecdotal, but it wil have to do till we can evaluate the effect in half a year or so). Perhaps the effect is likewise for other players all across new eden.

Btw. I am not against that the daily is changed to include other activities, I am just annoyed that people want a feature removed (Even if I don't use it that much), just because they are mind ****!ng themselves. It is just too irrational for me.

TLDR: I am still of the opinion that nothing is forced on you, and that you have chosen to wear the curse of dailies for 243 mill isk a month pr account. This is on you, and your game would not suffer too much without them I am pretty sure (So if it annoys you it is worth reconsidering if it is worth doing). I am enjoying EVE, competing in FW PvP, station trading, regional trading and PI and I am doing fine even with an non optimal SP training rate at 1800 SP/hr and not selling SP. I don't care as I can more or less fly the ships I want and I play for fun.

This was never about newbros though (see CCP rises OP about the daily), but about increasing the login numbers. It is still too early to say anything about if this has worked or not.

So the "but what about the newbros" argument is not really appropriate here (Though the newbros will get more out of the SP than the Vet will). I am convinced that people here are adults who can decide themselves if the daily is worth doing or not, without having their heads played with.

Even if that feature is not working as intended to increase activity/PCU/engagment or whatever metric CCP will use to assess the feature's success or failure?

I am sorry, but it effect on the game not purely psychological. The fact that the daily rewards so much more than anything else makes it mandatory to do if you are choosing what to do in the game based on reward. You apparently don't do view the game in such terms, and while I find your choice to do whatever you do instead of running the daily sub-optimal, I respect your freedom to play for whatever reasons motivate you. That doesn't change the fact however that the incentive structure is such it makes it mandatory for those seeking reward to do them instead of whatever else they were planning to do in the sandbox.

CCP: remove the daily (if it isn't working) or make it reward additional activities other than shooting rats, and soon. As it is, the daily is undermining your sandbox game and not rewarding activity as you stated was the intention but rewarding only those that shoot NPCs. This forces those of us that don't regularly shoot NPCs to pursue meaningless and unchallenging daily chores in order to earn your disproportionately good reward.

Of course it is mandatory. Just because something is limited, doesn't mean you shouldn't exploit it when you can.

It may not be game-breaking (like it would if you could infinitely farm SP from single NPC kills), but when rationally given the choice to spend a few minutes earning 10k SP or a few minutes doing something else, you are playing sub-optimally if you choose anything other than to collect your daily reward if you are choosing your activities to maximize isk/time.

Given most players trying to accumulate resources/power seek to maximize isk/time while playing, it is mandatory to collect these SP even if you were planning to do something else to earn resources. CCP has decided to award these SP based on a condition (shooting a rat) that is satisfied by many players during the course of normal gameplay, however there are a significant number of activities that are excluded by this single condition (trading, exploration, PI, PvP, some mining, corp management/diplomacy, hauling, etc.) and players who would rather pursue these activities are forced to go shoot rats instead for the first few minutes of their play session to maximize their isk/time.

Perhaps we basically agree and are arguing over semantics (what does exactly "forced" or "mandatory" mean?) but you have to admit that the current implementation does not adequately cover all the activities that players can do in the sandbox. Therefore, if players want this reward (and it is so good who wouldn't?), they have to change how they play the game to get it under the current system. This is not very conducive to player freedom or sandbox play nor is it purely rewarding 'activity' in the sandbox but rather is rewarding 'ratting activity' in contrast to the stated intention of the feature.

Further, it is not even clear that the feature is working at increasing activity. I am willing to give CCP some time to collect and analyze data, but given the intrusive effect this feature has on some players' game play (like mine), I hope they iterate on this feature sooner rather than later.

I quite enjoy flying as logi. I also enjoy flying EWAR. I enjoy flying my marauders. I want to soon enjoy flying command ships.

Argue all other points as much as you want, but SP is the gateway to all those things and more. Some of them are more intense SP investments than others, but it's SP all the same.

The thing is, in principle, I totally and completely agree with you when you say imply that people should enjoy the game first, worry about SP second. But then you gloss over the fact that to get to the place where you're enjoying the game, you have to invest in SP that unlocks it for you.

Enjoy exploring? Awesome! Don't have the SPs to fly a covops and you're stuck in a heron? Eh, that could limit your options. And if you really want to fully dive into the potential of that occupation, you need more SP in certain things. By the way, that's precisely how the SP system in this game is supposed to work, and works wonderfully, and by gosh, they just coincidentally came to SP as the universal reward. What are the chances??

Whatever fun you want to have at this game, you have to really work to understand it, and you need SP to unlock all the tools at your disposal to tackle the task at hand. Want to tell me that you can have fun being a simple t1 tackle for your roaming fleet? That's great, but every SP into ship maneuverability, speed, high speed maneuvering, etc, helps your cause. Which means that yes, you'll want to nab on to every little crumb of SP you can, so you can start having more fun sooner. Because eventually you'll want to fly an interceptor and really fly circles around your target, both literally and figuratively.

How long have dailies been out? I've stocked up enough unallocated SP to knock about three days off of one of my skill trains on the way to command ships, if I were so inclined. And dailies haven't even been out that long. As time progresses, and people have enough un-al-SP to knock off a week or two of training, do you really think that people are going to continue ignoring that? No, they'll want in. For only a few minutes a day, you too can shave off weeks of training that unlocks that thing you want to do so you actually can enjoy what this game has to offer. That's a very tantalizing offer.


Basically, all that to say, that no matter what you want to do in EvE to have fun, you have to get there somehow. And surrendering a few minutes a day to grab a few more crumbs of SP cheaply is almost too good to pass up, especially in the pursuit of a goal you perceive as fun. Unless, of course, you're at a point where you have access to most everything you wanted anyway.