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Lugh Crow-Slave
#2141 - 2016-05-06 20:43:46 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Neadayan Drakhon wrote:
Hopefully CCP's dropped it and just doesn't want to admit it.


Telling us they dropped it in that case would eb the best PR move of the whole ordeal possible. They are either blind to it or just working on a different implementation and keeping silent while it's still being modified.

Or it's going along with no change at all and just currently disabled from SiSi for :reasons:.


maybe they are just going to stealth it in with some other update :/

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#2142 - 2016-05-06 23:18:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Sgt Ocker
Axhind wrote:


Design goal is to pad numbers as CCP probably has financial difficulties as usual. The idea that numbers are down just due to the queue change and not due to jump fatigue, fozzie sov and rest of the "eve is all about small gang PvP" design goals is absurd.

It's obvious from the recent numbers that eve players care about large scale drama and fighting and not about insignificant 5v5 fights that means jack **** in the grand scheme of things. Introducing dailies will pad the numbers for a bit until people start burning out. Remember that most EVE players are not 12 y.o. with infinite amounts of free space but people with jobs and families which means not everyone can play every single day. Punishing those of your players who are actually ones with RL money (the money that CCP needs to finance all their pipe dreams) in effort to go after the demographic that has always been free of RL money is suicidal.

If they want people to login then provide conflict drivers and go away from the idiotic meta of everyone lives in perfectly safe NPC low sec stations. Kick out PL, NC., Imperium and russians back into 0.0. Force us to fight for real. Ofc that means that citadels would have to start working properly and that they will have to nerf the NPC stations into the ground not to mention that should probably involve citadels in only player 0.0 being allowed to accept supers and titans for docking and mooring.

If 0.0 space is so big a conflict driver and worth having - Why did Gons just recently pick up and run to lowsec instead of fighting when they were attacked by numbers they could easily match in most cases..

There were whole engagements (not fights, just stupid time wasting 2,000 man fleets) where Gons no Co just failed to turn up.

There is nothing in or about 0.0 worth fighting for - Unless you want to become a giant care bare alliance that docks up every time a small gang roams by.

You are right about one thing though - Fozzie Sov is too grindy and painful to do latest "war" (if you want to give it more credit than is due) should have been enough for CCP to rethink the whole sov thing, they won't.
Fatigue and Jump ranges - Devs weren't happy with fixing a presumed issue - They had to turn it into a punishing experience for everyone involved moving via cynos jump bridges etc. With a well thought mechanic, instead of "punish, punish punish" those changes could have led to positive change - Instead we have everyone packed into a tiny area of space (lowsec) competing for kills on travel fit supers and titans.

Which will get worse now with the latest punishments Devs thought up to inflict on the players base who like (or used to like) capital fights. The same dominating capital groups will dominate - Simply because "*again*" Devs have designed a meta around N+1 being the best option.
Why would you use a titan when 10 dreads are cheaper and more effective - Why would you bring carriers, when dreads and subcaps are far more effective (unless you have double or triple what the group your fighting has).

Like I've said all through the Citadel production (all its been really is a show, nothing about how capitals are used changes).. What is the point of "re-balancing" capitals, if use cases don't change.
Devs good intentions combined with lack of foresight and innovation have left us with?????????

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
ACESsiggy
Deaths Consortium
#2143 - 2016-05-07 04:41:53 UTC
Been cool if this was live during this promotional period on Steam.

“The open-minded see the truth in different things: the narrow-minded see only the differences.”
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#2144 - 2016-05-07 07:33:12 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Axhind wrote:


Design goal is to pad numbers as CCP probably has financial difficulties as usual. The idea that numbers are down just due to the queue change and not due to jump fatigue, fozzie sov and rest of the "eve is all about small gang PvP" design goals is absurd.

It's obvious from the recent numbers that eve players care about large scale drama and fighting and not about insignificant 5v5 fights that means jack **** in the grand scheme of things. Introducing dailies will pad the numbers for a bit until people start burning out. Remember that most EVE players are not 12 y.o. with infinite amounts of free space but people with jobs and families which means not everyone can play every single day. Punishing those of your players who are actually ones with RL money (the money that CCP needs to finance all their pipe dreams) in effort to go after the demographic that has always been free of RL money is suicidal.

If they want people to login then provide conflict drivers and go away from the idiotic meta of everyone lives in perfectly safe NPC low sec stations. Kick out PL, NC., Imperium and russians back into 0.0. Force us to fight for real. Ofc that means that citadels would have to start working properly and that they will have to nerf the NPC stations into the ground not to mention that should probably involve citadels in only player 0.0 being allowed to accept supers and titans for docking and mooring.

If 0.0 space is so big a conflict driver and worth having - Why did Gons just recently pick up and run to lowsec instead of fighting when they were attacked by numbers they could easily match in most cases..

There were whole engagements (not fights, just stupid time wasting 2,000 man fleets) where Gons no Co just failed to turn up.

There is nothing in or about 0.0 worth fighting for - Unless you want to become a giant care bare alliance that docks up every time a small gang roams by.

You are right about one thing though - Fozzie Sov is too grindy and painful to do latest "war" (if you want to give it more credit than is due) should have been enough for CCP to rethink the whole sov thing, they won't.
Fatigue and Jump ranges - Devs weren't happy with fixing a presumed issue - They had to turn it into a punishing experience for everyone involved moving via cynos jump bridges etc. With a well thought mechanic, instead of "punish, punish punish" those changes could have led to positive change - Instead we have everyone packed into a tiny area of space (lowsec) competing for kills on travel fit supers and titans.

Which will get worse now with the latest punishments Devs thought up to inflict on the players base who like (or used to like) capital fights. The same dominating capital groups will dominate - Simply because "*again*" Devs have designed a meta around N+1 being the best option.
Why would you use a titan when 10 dreads are cheaper and more effective - Why would you bring carriers, when dreads and subcaps are far more effective (unless you have double or triple what the group your fighting has).

Like I've said all through the Citadel production (all its been really is a show, nothing about how capitals are used changes).. What is the point of "re-balancing" capitals, if use cases don't change.
Devs good intentions combined with lack of foresight and innovation have left us with?????????


The point is that everybody hates the N+1when they're N-1, but also everyone would hate losing if they where N+1 and yet had their ass kicked.

"I want to win whether I am outnumbered but outskill them or I am outskilled but outnumber them" can't be balanced versus "I want to win whether I am outskilled but outnumber them or I am outnumbered but outskill them".
Axhind
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#2145 - 2016-05-07 09:48:09 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
If 0.0 space is so big a conflict driver and worth having - Why did Gons just recently pick up and run to lowsec instead of fighting when they were attacked by numbers they could easily match in most cases..

There were whole engagements (not fights, just stupid time wasting 2,000 man fleets) where Gons no Co just failed to turn up.

There is nothing in or about 0.0 worth fighting for - Unless you want to become a giant care bare alliance that docks up every time a small gang roams by.

You are right about one thing though - Fozzie Sov is too grindy and painful to do latest "war" (if you want to give it more credit than is due) should have been enough for CCP to rethink the whole sov thing, they won't.
Fatigue and Jump ranges - Devs weren't happy with fixing a presumed issue - They had to turn it into a punishing experience for everyone involved moving via cynos jump bridges etc. With a well thought mechanic, instead of "punish, punish punish" those changes could have led to positive change - Instead we have everyone packed into a tiny area of space (lowsec) competing for kills on travel fit supers and titans.

Which will get worse now with the latest punishments Devs thought up to inflict on the players base who like (or used to like) capital fights. The same dominating capital groups will dominate - Simply because "*again*" Devs have designed a meta around N+1 being the best option.
Why would you use a titan when 10 dreads are cheaper and more effective - Why would you bring carriers, when dreads and subcaps are far more effective (unless you have double or triple what the group your fighting has).

Like I've said all through the Citadel production (all its been really is a show, nothing about how capitals are used changes).. What is the point of "re-balancing" capitals, if use cases don't change.
Devs good intentions combined with lack of foresight and innovation have left us with?????????


I said that big fights is what pulls people in and makes them want to login. Numbers were down because CCP has had this idiotic idea that EVE is all about small gang fights (or rather ganks). With the idea of boosting small gangs running around ganking ratters. Sadly that kind of gameplay is boring as **** for the target. PvE is already bad and if you have to pay attention ever second not to get ganked by elite pvp crowd being boosted by fozzie and co then might as well do missions in perfect safety of high sec.

We moved to low sec (just like NC. and PL did long time ago) because the stuff that is in NPC station is perfectly safe, there is absolutely no way to attack that station and in low sec there are no bombs nor bubbles. At the same time in 0.0 player stations you are constantly at risk of disabled services (like horde found out several time) and the station being taken with your stuff stuck there.

Devs that are working on capital changes are quite heavy on former PL players so you can be sure that titans will not be bad, nor are they bad right now. Pl and NC. have a lot more than anyone else which means they can run around in them. True it's a bit more dangerous right now as we can counter drop dreads but that would most likely end up with a lot of dead dreads and perhaps a few FAXes. Titans supported by FAXes are the end game right now. You have to hold reps until DDs remove the hostile dreads and if the dreads go after FAXes that's fine too.

Basically the jump fatigue was put it to avoid dog piles (one of the reasons PL and pets lost B-R) while the more elegant solution would have been to just have a timer for jump in. Once you arrive at the gate of a TiDi system and jump it puts you into the system when the internal, slowed down, clock reaches your time. That way a big fight doesn't get instant reinforcements which gives local groups a chance to out number people locally and get out before reinforcements move in.

As to citadels they are still useless for staging and living out as they can't compete with perfect safety of NPC low sec stations that offer all the important services. CCP will have to nerf the crap out of those and probably force cloak logout of supers/titans if in low sec to make players even think about living in 0.0 again.

As to fozzie sov that is just giant clusterfuck. Attacking is stupidly easy, literally a single ship is enough, while defence takes a lot more effort (you don't know that it's a single ship). Trolling defenders is the best way to take sov as they will all be quitting EVE after a few months of responding to a single fast cloaky attacker. Now that we have lost most of our space perhaps CCP will change it to be more like citadels with minimum needed DPS (citadels need higher minimum as well) to force the attacker to risk things just like the defender. That way dominion was far better as you actually had to at least risk the SBUs and even shooting an SBU is a lot more engaging than watching someone orbit a node with the jesus laser.
Mizhir
Devara Biotech
#2146 - 2016-05-07 11:20:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Mizhir
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Mizhir wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

106 pages later, I still have to read a proposal on how to incentivize login in each day without a daily reward or penalty for login in.


That is because you have tunnelvision on this and think that making players log in daily will fix CCP's problems. While we are overall against any time based login incentives I have seen a few proposals on how to soften it up so you have the opportunity to either partially or fully catch up if you have been away for a few days. It could be that they change it to weekly opportunities instead of dailies or make the dailies "pool up" to a certain extend so if you haven't done them for a few days they are still available when you do log in.

The best would still be CCP actually respecting the needs of their players and let the players decide how they will play the game and instead focusing on making interesting content. Interresting content = more players playing. Even small mini events (like the easter one) have seemed to have a positive influence on log in count so small random events could be an easy way for CCP to boost the login sligthly. Some of it could even be tied with the lore and other things going on in the game.


Oh really? Are you even remotely aware on how many bloody years I've been saying the same? Roll

And now CCP is late. See, I don't mind pennies from heaven.This is why I want this idea to be released. But it's too late. It wil not work that well and is not what the game needs.

CCP is late. They can't finish the Rubicon Plan before being run over by the backlog of neglected playstyles.

They really should had made Rubicon a Plan for everyone and not a Plan for the chosen few.


CCP may have put more effort into Null and Lowsec content, but they have never given them an SP advantage. They made the SP system so players could progress no matter what they did or how often they did that. Dailies are gonna change that.

I still fail to see how dailies are gonna fix anything for the so called neglected playstyles. It wouldn't make L4 missions more fun. It wouldn't improve the life of a casual highsec miner. It wouldn't give the highsec explorer new stuff to explore. So why annoy the players with this?

I would love to see new and interesting PVE content. They have done a few projects (like new hacking, burner missions and all the drifter stuff), but I have honestly no clue about how you make the connection between dailies and improved PVE content.

Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

Ditto. Also, the incentive they are replacing was based on SP: "log in or miss SP because your queue is empty".


The difference is that you didn't have to log in every day since it was possible to plan your way out of it. "Going away on a holiday? Put in a long skill and you are fine."

Dailies are so inflexible that players have no possibility to plan their way out of it.

❤️️💛💚💙💜
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#2147 - 2016-05-07 12:25:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Indahmawar Fazmarai
Mizhir wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Mizhir wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

106 pages later, I still have to read a proposal on how to incentivize login in each day without a daily reward or penalty for login in.


That is because you have tunnelvision on this and think that making players log in daily will fix CCP's problems. While we are overall against any time based login incentives I have seen a few proposals on how to soften it up so you have the opportunity to either partially or fully catch up if you have been away for a few days. It could be that they change it to weekly opportunities instead of dailies or make the dailies "pool up" to a certain extend so if you haven't done them for a few days they are still available when you do log in.

The best would still be CCP actually respecting the needs of their players and let the players decide how they will play the game and instead focusing on making interesting content. Interresting content = more players playing. Even small mini events (like the easter one) have seemed to have a positive influence on log in count so small random events could be an easy way for CCP to boost the login sligthly. Some of it could even be tied with the lore and other things going on in the game.


Oh really? Are you even remotely aware on how many bloody years I've been saying the same? Roll

And now CCP is late. See, I don't mind pennies from heaven.This is why I want this idea to be released. But it's too late. It wil not work that well and is not what the game needs.

CCP is late. They can't finish the Rubicon Plan before being run over by the backlog of neglected playstyles.

They really should had made Rubicon a Plan for everyone and not a Plan for the chosen few.


CCP may have put more effort into Null and Lowsec content, but they have never given them an SP advantage. They made the SP system so players could progress no matter what they did or how often they did that. Dailies are gonna change that.

I still fail to see how dailies are gonna fix anything for the so called neglected playstyles. It wouldn't make L4 missions more fun. It wouldn't improve the life of a casual highsec miner. It wouldn't give the highsec explorer new stuff to explore. So why annoy the players with this?

I would love to see new and interesting PVE content. They have done a few projects (like new hacking, burner missions and all the drifter stuff), but I have honestly no clue about how you make the connection between dailies and improved PVE content.


Jesus, I may be explaining myself terribly.

Let's talk about fruits as an analogy:

"I want more Apples, but CCP doesn't gives Apples"
"Now CCP gives Grapes, I hate fruits, Grapes are terrible, all Fruits are terrible"
"Well, they're not Apples, I sorely miss Apples, but Grapes are a kind of Fruit"
"But Grapes don't fix the Apples issue! And they're Fruit and Fruit is terrible for EVE!"
"That's why I say CCP is damn late on the Fruit matter, but anyway I appreciate the Grapes"
Solhild
Doomheim
#2148 - 2016-05-08 14:22:40 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Mizhir wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Mizhir wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

106 pages later, I still have to read a proposal on how to incentivize login in each day without a daily reward or penalty for login in.


That is because you have tunnelvision on this and think that making players log in daily will fix CCP's problems. While we are overall against any time based login incentives I have seen a few proposals on how to soften it up so you have the opportunity to either partially or fully catch up if you have been away for a few days. It could be that they change it to weekly opportunities instead of dailies or make the dailies "pool up" to a certain extend so if you haven't done them for a few days they are still available when you do log in.

The best would still be CCP actually respecting the needs of their players and let the players decide how they will play the game and instead focusing on making interesting content. Interresting content = more players playing. Even small mini events (like the easter one) have seemed to have a positive influence on log in count so small random events could be an easy way for CCP to boost the login sligthly. Some of it could even be tied with the lore and other things going on in the game.


Oh really? Are you even remotely aware on how many bloody years I've been saying the same? Roll

And now CCP is late. See, I don't mind pennies from heaven.This is why I want this idea to be released. But it's too late. It wil not work that well and is not what the game needs.

CCP is late. They can't finish the Rubicon Plan before being run over by the backlog of neglected playstyles.

They really should had made Rubicon a Plan for everyone and not a Plan for the chosen few.


CCP may have put more effort into Null and Lowsec content, but they have never given them an SP advantage. They made the SP system so players could progress no matter what they did or how often they did that. Dailies are gonna change that.

I still fail to see how dailies are gonna fix anything for the so called neglected playstyles. It wouldn't make L4 missions more fun. It wouldn't improve the life of a casual highsec miner. It wouldn't give the highsec explorer new stuff to explore. So why annoy the players with this?

I would love to see new and interesting PVE content. They have done a few projects (like new hacking, burner missions and all the drifter stuff), but I have honestly no clue about how you make the connection between dailies and improved PVE content.


Jesus, I may be explaining myself terribly.

Let's talk about fruits as an analogy:

"I want more Apples, but CCP doesn't gives Apples"
"Now CCP gives Grapes, I hate fruits, Grapes are terrible, all Fruits are terrible"
"Well, they're not Apples, I sorely miss Apples, but Grapes are a kind of Fruit"
"But Grapes don't fix the Apples issue! And they're Fruit and Fruit is terrible for EVE!"
"That's why I say CCP is damn late on the Fruit matter, but anyway I appreciate the Grapes"


Interesting. I'd prefer if CCP allowed us to buy wine with our Aurum and completely kept out of the fruit market for ever. If you want Apples, play another game as the Apples will wreck this one!
El Burt
La Famille Larouche
#2149 - 2016-05-08 21:21:06 UTC  |  Edited by: El Burt
This change isn't targeted at people login in or not everyday. CCP cannot care less about them, they already subscribed. It is targeted at converting trials into subscribers and keeping new subscribers invested in.

Content in EVE is gated by both ISK and SP.
You earn ISK by actually playing the game, that's 100% what a game should be.
SP on the other hand is earned out of thin air, over time, by queuing skills, therefore SP is balanced around hours, days, weeks. It ends up trolling early adopters into safe repetitive activities.

Repetitiveness and lack of diversity/originality aside, most new players end up doing security missions and after 21/30 days, it hasn't changed, they still cannot risk losing their ship. They leave.

New players can
Mine, but who would? You ain't doing anything, there are no game mechanics.
Play the market? Sure, but how many people want to play a market simulator?
Courier, but you don't drive in EVE you click a button, again not fun to play. Two words: truck, simulator.
Explore, unfortunately it's not worth it in high-sec.
PvE (security mission), which they end up doing for maybe a week or two until they quit for a better game.

New players can't
PvP. Outside noob fleets, they can't. You can't roam low-sec with a T1 ship and expect to survive. Which is the major issue here.
Call me crazy, but you shouldn't lose anything but your cargo in HighSec, everything but your ship and implants in LowSec. You trolls won't like this idea, since most of you are grumpy old men set in their ways, but this would bring the PvP you all have been crying about for years. This game has so many flaws, its worse being its oblivious community.
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#2150 - 2016-05-09 00:21:38 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Neadayan Drakhon wrote:
Hopefully CCP's dropped it and just doesn't want to admit it.


Telling us they dropped it in that case would eb the best PR move of the whole ordeal possible. They are either blind to it or just working on a different implementation and keeping silent while it's still being modified.

Or it's going along with no change at all and just currently disabled from SiSi for :reasons:.


maybe they are just going to stealth it in with some other update :/

I'm glad we haven't heard anything on this for a while now, although my guess is that CCP is iterating on the idea, although I would be very happy if they have decided to drop it altogether.

Bear in mind what they did with skill injectors, they got the initial wave of mass negative feedback, and then a couple of months later when everyone thought they had dropped them came back with the feature ready to go live in the next patch.
Malcaz
Omni Paradox Securities
Grand Inquisitors Federation
#2151 - 2016-05-09 07:17:23 UTC
Personally don't care enough about 300k SP a month to do this.

What this will do though is get people to compulsively log in routinely every day just to kill one npc ship and then log off. I don't think that will make people enjoy the game more.
Axhind
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#2152 - 2016-05-09 08:47:16 UTC
El Burt wrote:
This change isn't targeted at people login in or not everyday. CCP cannot care less about them, they already subscribed. It is targeted at converting trials into subscribers and keeping new subscribers invested in.

Content in EVE is gated by both ISK and SP.
You earn ISK by actually playing the game, that's 100% what a game should be.
SP on the other hand is earned out of thin air, over time, by queuing skills, therefore SP is balanced around hours, days, weeks. It ends up trolling early adopters into safe repetitive activities.

Repetitiveness and lack of diversity/originality aside, most new players end up doing security missions and after 21/30 days, it hasn't changed, they still cannot risk losing their ship. They leave.

New players can
Mine, but who would? You ain't doing anything, there are no game mechanics.
Play the market? Sure, but how many people want to play a market simulator?
Courier, but you don't drive in EVE you click a button, again not fun to play. Two words: truck, simulator.
Explore, unfortunately it's not worth it in high-sec.
PvE (security mission), which they end up doing for maybe a week or two until they quit for a better game.

New players can't
PvP. Outside noob fleets, they can't. You can't roam low-sec with a T1 ship and expect to survive. Which is the major issue here.
Call me crazy, but you shouldn't lose anything but your cargo in HighSec, everything but your ship and implants in LowSec. You trolls won't like this idea, since most of you are grumpy old men set in their ways, but this would bring the PvP you all have been crying about for years. This game has so many flaws, its worse being its oblivious community.


How about you go play hello kitty and leave us alone? Theme park MMOs are failing across the board. They get some popularity in the beginning and then people get tired of it. One of the reasons why EVE survives, despite CCPs efforts to kill it off lately, is because things matter and there are almost always some goals and things to do. If you remove loss then you just made an arcade game that costs 15€ per month which will hardly compare favourably to many other similar games that are for free.

EVE is a unique game and should stay that way. It showed growth for 10 years and started dropping numbers first when CCP went on the the whole "small gang PvP without any consequences is only thing that matters" tangent.
Mizhir
Devara Biotech
#2153 - 2016-05-09 10:51:08 UTC
El Burt wrote:
This change isn't targeted at people login in or not everyday. CCP cannot care less about them, they already subscribed. It is targeted at converting trials into subscribers and keeping new subscribers invested in.

Content in EVE is gated by both ISK and SP.
You earn ISK by actually playing the game, that's 100% what a game should be.
SP on the other hand is earned out of thin air, over time, by queuing skills, therefore SP is balanced around hours, days, weeks. It ends up trolling early adopters into safe repetitive activities.

Repetitiveness and lack of diversity/originality aside, most new players end up doing security missions and after 21/30 days, it hasn't changed, they still cannot risk losing their ship. They leave.

New players can
Mine, but who would? You ain't doing anything, there are no game mechanics.
Play the market? Sure, but how many people want to play a market simulator?
Courier, but you don't drive in EVE you click a button, again not fun to play. Two words: truck, simulator.
Explore, unfortunately it's not worth it in high-sec.
PvE (security mission), which they end up doing for maybe a week or two until they quit for a better game.

New players can't
PvP. Outside noob fleets, they can't. You can't roam low-sec with a T1 ship and expect to survive. Which is the major issue here.
Call me crazy, but you shouldn't lose anything but your cargo in HighSec, everything but your ship and implants in LowSec. You trolls won't like this idea, since most of you are grumpy old men set in their ways, but this would bring the PvP you all have been crying about for years. This game has so many flaws, its worse being its oblivious community.


CCP Rise has stated that this isn't aimed at newbies. It is aimed at making the login counts higher. Nothing more, nothing less. If they want to improve it for newbies then they should make things that are aimed for newbies which we have repeated over and over in this thread. Dailies wouldn't make newbies enjoy the game. Sure they may stay for a bit longer but if dailies are the only thing that keeps them in the game they will just leave when they inevitably gets burned out by it.

I would love to see mechanics that gives newbies a good start in the game. But the most important thing is not SP or ISK. It is learning the game. So an improved NPE which gives them the opportunity to try different aspects of the game and learn how to do it while rewarding SP and the nescessary ships would be far more superior than dailies ever would. As it would:

  1. Teach them the game
  2. Let them try out different parts of the game they initially haven't though about and likewise give them the little push needed to try out things they are afraid to try (like pvp)
  3. It would mean that only newbies would benefit from it. Adding a SP cap would mean it can't just be farmed for SP for old chars and likewise vets like me can't just use it for making new alts without having to spend time on going through all the steps.


Regarding your list of things that newbies can or can't do: I call bullsh*t on that. See one of my previous replies:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6464762#post6464762

So no. It is not about grumpy old men being scared of newbies. It is about keeping the game free of the most obvious and stupid iteration of Skinner's box. Newbies are welcome and important to the game. I don't mind if they start out much better than I did.

❤️️💛💚💙💜
Matthew en Thielles
Matthew en Thielles' magical tax haven
#2154 - 2016-05-09 11:33:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Matthew en Thielles
El Burt wrote:
This change isn't targeted at people login in or not everyday. CCP cannot care less about them, they already subscribed. It is targeted at converting trials into subscribers and keeping new subscribers invested in.

Content in EVE is gated by both ISK and SP.
You earn ISK by actually playing the game, that's 100% what a game should be.
SP on the other hand is earned out of thin air, over time, by queuing skills, therefore SP is balanced around hours, days, weeks. It ends up trolling early adopters into safe repetitive activities.

Repetitiveness and lack of diversity/originality aside, most new players end up doing security missions and after 21/30 days, it hasn't changed, they still cannot risk losing their ship. They leave.

This game has so many flaws, its worse being its oblivious community.



hate on this guy all you want, he has some valid points. it doesn't matter that it's a feature designed to generate logins, that 10000 sp is worth infinitely more to a 10000 sp character than it is to a 60 mil sp one. that means this is a good feature for noobs.

Personally, i still get every single SP i would have even if i don't log in. literally nothing changes, except i now get the chance to get 10000 extra sp every day i do log on, for nothing more than killing a rat? when was the last time you logged in, and played a whole session, and didn't come across a single rat that you could just shoot on your way past? They spawn on low and nulsec gates! In every asteroid belt, eploration (combat) site and mission. this is no hassle for me, or i imagine, for any player that flys spaceships around in space with guns fitted. I would like to see this expanded into the other professions though, and not limited to killing rats, you know, hack a can, mine a rock, place a buy/sell order or something. that way you won't even need to have guns fitted.

I'm excited to see it land though, ******* command ships might actually get trained for eventually now that i can shave some time off damn warfare link specialisations.

Anyone know when we might expect this to go live? i went to test server the other day to try it out, and i couldn't see any indication of it's existence.
Mizhir
Devara Biotech
#2155 - 2016-05-09 12:21:51 UTC
Matthew en Thielles wrote:
El Burt wrote:
This change isn't targeted at people login in or not everyday. CCP cannot care less about them, they already subscribed. It is targeted at converting trials into subscribers and keeping new subscribers invested in.

Content in EVE is gated by both ISK and SP.
You earn ISK by actually playing the game, that's 100% what a game should be.
SP on the other hand is earned out of thin air, over time, by queuing skills, therefore SP is balanced around hours, days, weeks. It ends up trolling early adopters into safe repetitive activities.

Repetitiveness and lack of diversity/originality aside, most new players end up doing security missions and after 21/30 days, it hasn't changed, they still cannot risk losing their ship. They leave.

This game has so many flaws, its worse being its oblivious community.



hate on this guy all you want, he has some valid points. it doesn't matter that it's a feature designed to generate logins, that 10000 sp is worth infinitely more to a 10000 sp character than it is to a 60 mil sp one. that means this is a good feature for noobs.


That is under the assumption that the newbies log in most days. Otherwise they would gain less SP from this than the people who log in every day.

While it may be a little help for newbies it causes many other issues in the game. So I would much rather see a system that gives a larger boost to newbies and then let the rest of us enjoy a game without dailies.

❤️️💛💚💙💜
Raging Bull Unchained
Signal Lost
#2156 - 2016-05-09 12:28:42 UTC
I heared (well - listened and talked with veterans) that it´s not uncommon (it seems) that those vets got moer then 1 account. It looked like those old people got more accounts in total then are active. Maybe it´s a try to get those old alt-accounts reactivated?

Like in: It´s not less ppl that plays eve, it´s just less accounts? I don´t know the numbers though.
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#2157 - 2016-05-09 12:54:05 UTC
Matthew en Thielles wrote:
El Burt wrote:
This change isn't targeted at people login in or not everyday. CCP cannot care less about them, they already subscribed. It is targeted at converting trials into subscribers and keeping new subscribers invested in.

Content in EVE is gated by both ISK and SP.
You earn ISK by actually playing the game, that's 100% what a game should be.
SP on the other hand is earned out of thin air, over time, by queuing skills, therefore SP is balanced around hours, days, weeks. It ends up trolling early adopters into safe repetitive activities.

Repetitiveness and lack of diversity/originality aside, most new players end up doing security missions and after 21/30 days, it hasn't changed, they still cannot risk losing their ship. They leave.

This game has so many flaws, its worse being its oblivious community.



hate on this guy all you want, he has some valid points.

Most of what he said was irrelevant. This proposal clearly isn't aimed at new player retention as Rise has even stated himself. So rather than hating him I regard his point as simply irrelevant to the discussion. CCP Ghost will hopefully give us some decent features to solve the player retention issue, and it has nothing to do with introducing dailies.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#2158 - 2016-05-09 13:32:05 UTC
Raging Bull Unchained wrote:
I heared (well - listened and talked with veterans) that it´s not uncommon (it seems) that those vets got moer then 1 account. It looked like those old people got more accounts in total then are active. Maybe it´s a try to get those old alt-accounts reactivated?

Like in: It´s not less ppl that plays eve, it´s just less accounts? I don´t know the numbers though.

The game has changed a lot over the last few years - Many of the older players with lots of accounts no longer need those accounts due to changes in how the game now works.
Offering basically free SP with dailies is not going to encourage those players to start using them again, there is no need for them.

Up until recently I ran 11 accounts with a total of 28 characters, in 3 days this one expires and is not being subbed again as all it has been used for in the last year is a forum alt. I no longer wish to pay CCP for a forum alt and it is of little use to me otherwise, dailies or not. That leaves me with 3 active accounts, 7 characters in all, 4 of which are somewhat useful.

Daily "opportunities won't get me to resub - But CCP giving us the opportunity for some real content might.

What will make Eve great again?
Fix the "everything is disposable" design - Everything Destructible is great - Doing it by making things disposable isn't.. (When players start blowing up their own capitals for the insurance payout - There is something drastically wrong with their current design)

Fix Sov so it is worth owning - Get rid of the painful pointless grind > Shooting a TCU for hours with bombers was not all that different to what we have now. Only real difference is, now you have to fly around a whole constellation shooting lots of little structures instead of just one big one. And worse, your often doing it alone as there is no need for "a fleet".
Entosis links = Boring, tedious grinding.

Jump ranges and Fatigue need to be looked at again and fixed in a way they should have been originally - This "might" encourage a few of the large lowsec groups to venture into nul. As it stand now, they won't simply because moving is a long drawn out pain in the *** and once there, there is no-one to fight without another slow, tedious, punishing move.
The reason all the large capital groups live in lowsec is jump ranges and fatigue - What self respecting capital group wants to live in nulsec where there is just no use for capitals? Why would you leave lowsec when with such limited jump ranges and fatigue combined gives you so many easily reachable targets. If Devs looked at their so precious metrics, they would see, what is happening now is not good long term for Eve or players.
There has been many good alternatives to what we have now posted in many threads - Try thinking outside the "punishing players is good" box.
-- - -- - -- - -- - --
The Goon war has fizzled out, with a flicker and a very small bang. Citadel's right now offer little as most of those being built are also being destroyed before even being fit out (Devs new "everything disposable" design at its best).. I'd expect to start seeing online numbers decline again pretty soon as there really isn't anything to entice players to continue to log in. Aside from the "everything requires N+1" meta, Eve doesn't have much going for it right now. And N+1 is pretty boring if you belong to a smaller group.....

Sorry for the long winded response, hope it helps understand why "dailies" won't effect players with unsubbed alts.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
NotTheSmartestCookie
Shooting Blues Everyday
Gimme Da Loot
#2159 - 2016-05-10 07:55:30 UTC
This thread is verging wildly off topic, which probably means that every argument has already been repeated ad nauseam. A small vocal minority is strongly opposed while most EVE players would probably go "free stuff, gimme", if they could be bothered to express an opinion at all.

Daily opportunities are cool with me. Would be better if the system was "once per downtime". This would allow people to feel all warm and smug that they can game the system by performing the daily twice around a single downtime, while CCP would still be "yeah, press that shiny button in our Skinner box".

Making New Eden a better place 8 rounds of Void at a time.

Funny, smartest, pretty and relevant. Pick 3.

Proud shareholder in Halaima MinerBumping
Yana Shakti
Gradient Shift
#2160 - 2016-05-10 08:00:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Yana Shakti
I agree with pretty much everything Sgt Ocker (two posts above) said.

Here are some other reasons why this is a bad idea:

(1) The proposal tries to solve a problem that doesn't exist. Log-in numbers are going up (not down) ... and this as a result of better content development over the past year or two. Suggestion: keep on with the game development and drop the gimick.

(2) The proposal undermines and disrupts creativity, individuality and the immersive experience. Many people, myself included, have specialized toons each with a very distinctive feel and set of habits: one does this, one does that... The areas of operations seldom overlap. Forcing everyone to log in every toon to mine some veldspar one day, then sell a sprocket the next day, etc. etc. has the potential to artificially reduce the game's complexity to a series of mechanical tasks.

For context, compare this with how undergraduates are rewarded for their work. You can reward students for doing individual, creative reserach (say, by setting term papers). Or you can reward them for meaningless micro-tasks: using a pen one day, opening a book the next day, using the shift key on their laptop the day after that. And so on. My guess is that the students who are rewarded for personal creativity rather than for micro-actions will be better off for it. Just think of which classroom you'd rather be in. Much the same applies to creative sandbox games.

(3) This reward system is already available in other MMOGs. If we wanted to be part of that we'd quit EVE and play those.

Bottom line: EVE is what many of us do at the end of the workday to relax. It's supposed to be what we make it: entertaining and open-ended. The last thing I want to do at the end of the day is to log into another 'job' that 'pays' me for meaningless tasks set by a virtual middle-manager. I come to EVE to be free not to be condescended to. Stop it.