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CSV dump of all PVP kills between Mar 1-Apr 4

First post
Author
CCP Quant
C C P
C C P Alliance
#21 - 2016-04-08 09:56:09 UTC
Lokyar Brightmane wrote:
CCP Quant wrote:
Masao Kurata wrote:
CCP Quant wrote:
Masao Kurata wrote:
Excuse me? Some people like to keep certain kills and losses secret, this is a big change in policy.


We excluded characterID for that purpose. If that is still giving away too much info we could move(from corporationID as the lowest identifier) up to allianceID, but yeah this sentiment is the reason kills aren't accessible in bulk through CREST. However, one of the biggest arguments for hiding kills has been to hide fitting, these kill logs don't show fitting. Also, it's only PVP kills where a player character kills a player character.


Okay, that was a knee jerk reaction. .


I didn't want to dance around the subject Smile no knee jerk reaction intended! I'm biased here as If this were completely up to me I'd say we open up the killfeed in crest and the 0.1% of pilots who don't want kills shown will just have to suck it up Pirate However, and luckily for the 0.1% the decision is not solely in my hands.

As I understand the conversation, he meant that he made a knee jerk reaction and actually thinks it's a good idea, now he's had time to review it further.


Ah, well it's not often that I suffer from not being a native English speaker :)
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#22 - 2016-04-08 10:33:13 UTC
God I would love to just open up all killmails... /me dreams

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

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Geronimo McVain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2016-04-08 10:36:10 UTC
CCP Quant wrote:
I'm biased here as If this were completely up to me I'd say we open up the killfeed in crest and the 0.1% of pilots who don't want kills shown will just have to suck it up Pirate However, and luckily for the 0.1% the decision is not solely in my hands.

I like it this way. IMHO there is no real reason to show the name of the victim in stats. I thinks accurate stats are totally okay but only if you can't catch the individual.
And I would really like to have these reports each month. They are also very good business infos as you see which ships people loose so.....
ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2016-04-08 11:18:42 UTC  |  Edited by: ChromeStriker
CCP FoxFour wrote:
God I would love to just open up all killmails... /me dreams


Do it.... or ask the question at least, make it a discussion with pro's and cons. I dont know the in's and out's of this but i find it hard to think of a non-technical reason why we cant have access to all Pvp kills Shocked

I CAN imagine the sweet apps cleaver peeps could makes with graphs and ratios and stats.... ugh that would be sweet Roll

No Worries

SerratedX
End-Game
#25 - 2016-04-08 12:31:22 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:
God I would love to just open up all killmails... /me dreams


DO IT!
Talon White
Red vs Blue Flight Academy
#26 - 2016-04-08 13:57:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Talon White
Would I be correct in assuming

victimCorp = lost a ship?
finalCorp = killed a ship?

If so, one can calculate/rank which corps:

* lost the most ships (total number of 'lost a ship') per corporation?
* killed the most (total number of 'final corp') per corporation?
Robbert Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2016-04-08 14:12:56 UTC
CCP Quant wrote:
I'd say we open up the killfeed in crest and the 0.1% of pilots who don't want kills shown will just have to suck it up Pirate However, and luckily for the 0.1% the decision is not solely in my hands.


What if you did this, but made a very obvious way how to opt out? For example, there could be an option on the character sheet combat log. If you opt out, the data is available, but the victimCharacter is missing.

Obviously there is some development time involved there, but think of the graphs man, the graphs!
Circumstantial Evidence
#28 - 2016-04-08 15:07:39 UTC
I know some older characters who would like to review their personal kills and losses from the first year that EVE was "online." I'm told the info was first sent in eve-mails, thus the phrase "killmails." But eve-mail limits (compressible text!) storage allowed per character means that old mails are removed to make room for new ones.

Are the first kills and loss mails stored somewhere? Could the personally lost info be retrieved on player request, perhaps by support ticket?
Masao Kurata
Perkone
Caldari State
#29 - 2016-04-08 16:26:31 UTC
So people complain about "free intel" when it's as vague as "this guy's online" but not when it's a complete combat history?
Eretria Amberle
Doomheim
#30 - 2016-04-08 16:48:35 UTC
From what i have read, from this,is that your giving out more info than what is already provided.Yeah,about that.lets see how this has evolved.

Api's

legacy api's? --oh yeah those got updated,outdated,ancient(alot of problems that are still recorded from abuse of information)
Battleclinic -who didnt use this? (Now we have a few options for fittings)(Battleclinic you will be missed)
Crest API - guess battle clinic and the beta killboard was getting it wrong still .

ok so we have came up to this time and moment where you are wanting to do what?So now there is more info than what is here on zkillboard.I dont see this as being any more useful as eve central,something else you have to look up out of game to get anything useful from it.

just looking at zkillboard,what questions are not really being answered that says hey lets dump more infomation.

from a kill we get,ship type,owner of said ship,attackers ,ship fit ,and what dropped fairly simple.

your not going to be able to answer all of your pvp problems sifting through information that is already there(no way thats impossible).Sounds like to me you need to look at what you did wrong ,if you found more info that is useful,add it to what you got,here your just going to dump info like no oneelse care about their priviacy.Maybe someone is too big headed to realize his orbit was wrong when he lost his ship {cause that can never happen}

you want ships lost per month,just bring it up by searching ship type.

Maybe your baffled cause you went to look up info on someone and couldnt find them cause their using a character born right after the new eden incident so their records are lost.

If your killboard is not collecting killmails so why use it....adding this compile monthly killmail report is just another mess that might be sorted through next year.

i think CCP/Eve needs to look at what its got and build from there,not another killboard site, not another asset because 1% dont care and the other 99 wants info kept with a sense of decentancy(not that it will help)

build something that is going to help new players,(help channels were great).maybe a widget or window that shows recents kills in a small window,or an broadcast that says "There was currently 3 ships and 3 pods destroyed in the last 20 minutes within 5 jumps of this gate" something that gives immediate info that can be used for deciding if they want to go through the gate. or something bigger like a huge cloaking veil that hides like a group of BS 200km off the gate,perhaps limited to distance and angle,so if it is facing towards the gate only ships behind the veil and out to a said distance is "cloaked",till you start flying to the side of it and see said BS sitting there behind the veil.

My thing is really make the game more fun,not more serious,your bringing in more personal info and dropping it for the vultures to feed upon.Perhaps take all Identifiable info and input random variables for it to be recorded to.If i kill a ship with something that normally isnt seen,it is not my problem if they cant figure out how it was done.They dont "need" my ship fittings.CCP can make info avaiable simply by bringing up ships lost .They can also provide info to you safer than this compiled info they are stuck with so they throw the heap at you and tell you to do something with it .I havent really seen any request that was justified to give out personal info.

In my opinion(s),This effort is useless especially if this has led us to to this Crest API. CCP is getting paid(in case you havent looked at plexes and stuff,they have well made bank) to sit,feed you scraps that are half thought of.If you were to go and say hey make a list of ships killed in whatever time period,this is easy for them to do as they have all the info.but it doesnt take away from the fact that there is tools already here for that.





Gaestler
Jovian Disease Foundation
#31 - 2016-04-08 21:40:11 UTC
I like the concept in general, but one major exclusion that I would like to see is any kills in w-space systems. Much like the removal of NPC kills in w-space from the API, excluding pvp kills from any automatic database dump is very important for the security of those that live in w-space.
Sven Viko VIkolander
Allemannsrett
#32 - 2016-04-08 23:53:56 UTC
Intel in EVE is already so widespread and easy to obtain in and out of game that I really don't think the small group of players who want to be invisible from killboards have a compelling argument at this point. It is especially unnecessary now that we have skill injectors. I.e., you can create an endless supply of new alts with high SP totals and blank killboards. (I swear Shadow Cartel makes a new 20m SP BLOPs alt every other day at this point!) I would love to see an open discussion about making the info public

Tochimo
Backwater Redux
Tactical Narcotics Team
#33 - 2016-04-09 06:29:40 UTC
I'm glad you could find time for this while I still have 3 open support tickets waiting for responses.

Props to CCP for proving what is more important to them.
Kaivaja
State War Academy
Caldari State
#34 - 2016-04-09 09:40:34 UTC
I think providing intel like this is wrong in Eve. There should NOT be any intel that's absolutely accurate. Public killboards provide much of the same data in searchable form, but you can never be sure if the data is absolutely accurate. Some critical info might be missing. With a dump like this, the accuracy kills any doubt of the fog of war. CCP, please do NOT publish any data this accurate!
Seri Michele
Knights of the Protectorate
#35 - 2016-04-09 09:49:15 UTC
Love the idea. PvP kills by definition involve another player who could potentially plug their API into zkillboard and ruin your anonymity anyways.

@Eretrie Amberle - this data doesn't include fittings, and killmails don't include the winner's fittings, so what are you talking about? If you get killed, your lack of zkillboard sync doesn't stop the winner from having that KM posted, so...?

EVE is all about players taking this further than just 'playing a game'. Lots of players love KB surfing, combing through the static database dumps CCP gives (gave?) out, and number-crunching all sorts of stuff with their own collected data. That's a great side of EVE.
Seri Michele
Knights of the Protectorate
#36 - 2016-04-09 09:54:16 UTC
Kaivaja wrote:
I think providing intel like this is wrong in Eve. There should NOT be any intel that's absolutely accurate. Public killboards provide much of the same data in searchable form, but you can never be sure if the data is absolutely accurate. Some critical info might be missing. With a dump like this, the accuracy kills any doubt of the fog of war. CCP, please do NOT publish any data this accurate!


Completely un-sarcastically, I'm interested in what you mean by being sure if the data is accurate? Don't the KB sites just pull from API-authed CREST? I could see where a KB site with connections to an in-game group could choose to obfuscate or omit certain data or kills altogether as part of propaganda, but this doesn't make the data unavailable, just absent from that site?
Seri Michele
Knights of the Protectorate
#37 - 2016-04-09 11:06:47 UTC
Gaestler wrote:
I like the concept in general, but one major exclusion that I would like to see is any kills in w-space systems. Much like the removal of NPC kills in w-space from the API, excluding pvp kills from any automatic database dump is very important for the security of those that live in w-space.


Gotta hide those loot piñata systems! ;)
- former JLABS guy
Kaivaja
State War Academy
Caldari State
#38 - 2016-04-09 13:30:09 UTC
Seri Michele wrote:
Completely un-sarcastically, I'm interested in what you mean by being sure if the data is accurate? Don't the KB sites just pull from API-authed CREST?

This may come as a shock to you, but there are pilots and organizations in Eve that don't post their kills. Vast majority of the PvP players see public killboards as a kind of "high score table of Eve", but not all do. Eve can be played in many different ways and there are many different "ways to win".
Future Baby
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#39 - 2016-04-09 14:56:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Future Baby
I really don’t get it. 1st watchlist is nerfed as it produces too much information and at the same time CCP is dumping 100% accurate kill data? It makes no sense at all. It is a good thing that KB info is being taken up to conversation but IMHO it should go to totally other way around, make the automated kill listing harder - or give easier access for players not to post it. This question was brought up by CCP Greyscale in recon Roundtable in fanfest 2014 and at time there were enough arguments for not to do it. Just because something can be done does not mean it should. At that time it was about 3.4% of all Eve kills that were not posted to killboards.

The real question is how to do the same to the KB data than what was done to watchlist? How about if the kill is automatically posted only if both parties have agreed on automated posting. If one of the parties would not allow automated posting then the kill would have to be posted manually - CREST or API would not pull it. Naturally all manually posted kills could be faked as well :). Now that is Eve!!

Future Baby
Alt of.. name CLASSIFIED due intel on the matter
Masao Kurata
Perkone
Caldari State
#40 - 2016-04-09 18:33:31 UTC
To be honest I don't believe that 3.4% figure, not remotely. I experimentally didn't post any of my kills for a while and only about 10% of them got uploaded by the victims manually or through api registration.