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Curious about Recon ships, need advice
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Acrisius Knatch
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2016-04-06 12:46:48 UTC
Hi, I'm interested in getting into recon ships. I'm curious about using them to run DED sites, which I have ZERO experience in, but I'm really drawn to the D-scan invisibility. I can currently fly a Huginn with minimal additional training, but from what I've heard a Rook is more popular/better for solo work? The thing is that I want to be able to also hold my own a bit if I do get jumped in low sec so I want to be able to fit a very versatile ship. What can a recon realistically run, 4/10?

Thank you in advance.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#2 - 2016-04-06 15:22:34 UTC
Acrisius Knatch wrote:
Hi, I'm interested in getting into recon ships. I'm curious about using them to run DED sites, which I have ZERO experience in, but I'm really drawn to the D-scan invisibility. I can currently fly a Huginn with minimal additional training, but from what I've heard a Rook is more popular/better for solo work? The thing is that I want to be able to also hold my own a bit if I do get jumped in low sec so I want to be able to fit a very versatile ship. What can a recon realistically run, 4/10?

Thank you in advance.



Recons are primarily a support ship. You're asking them to be something they are not made for. There isn't a great recon for what you are asking. They really don't have good self repping options, so you'll be limited in the sites you can run. 4/10 in a solo recon.... that's a long row to hoe.

That being said:
Curse is made mostly of awesome sauce. You need good drone skills, and used correctly gives you a decent solo pvp platform.
Rook is decent, but you have to give away tank to fit jams. The more jams, the less tank and the less pve options.
Huggin is decent if you are good at kiting, but it's easily ganked by average players - if you get webbed/scrammed it's over.
Lachesis is meh for solo pve anything (my personal favorite in small gang pvp though)

I don't think you'll be happy running anything solo outside of empire in a recon. Stratios is a good solo platform for what you want to do. Not dscan immune, but does allow a covert ops cloak. Recons were born to be offensive pvp support boats. Huggins have are useful in fleet pve for their webbing/painting, but not solo.
Kiddoomer
The Red Sequence
#3 - 2016-04-06 15:25:16 UTC
I had some fun doing wormhole combat sites in C2 I believe with a rook, as long as you dont launch your drones you're invisible in there unless people combat probe you looking for someone else. And sleepers can be jammed with whatever racial ecm you have to help reduce dps.

In the name of Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen : “Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.”
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#4 - 2016-04-06 16:01:54 UTC
Kiddoomer wrote:
I had some fun doing wormhole combat sites in C2 I believe with a rook, as long as you dont launch your drones you're invisible in there unless people combat probe you looking for someone else. And sleepers can be jammed with whatever racial ecm you have to help reduce dps.



No one running sites in a wh is invisible. I hit d-scan and see some wrecks. I hit d-scan and see a different number and/or kind of wreck - I've got you.

You're invisible until you create wrecks. Running pve sites w/out creating wrecks is a real challenge. Lol
Acrisius Knatch
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2016-04-06 16:47:41 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Kiddoomer wrote:
I had some fun doing wormhole combat sites in C2 I believe with a rook, as long as you dont launch your drones you're invisible in there unless people combat probe you looking for someone else. And sleepers can be jammed with whatever racial ecm you have to help reduce dps.



No one running sites in a wh is invisible. I hit d-scan and see some wrecks. I hit d-scan and see a different number and/or kind of wreck - I've got you.

You're invisible until you create wrecks. Running pve sites w/out creating wrecks is a real challenge. Lol


You can shoot the wrecks! :D

Thanks for input though :)
Shiloh Templeton
Cheyenne HET Co
#6 - 2016-04-06 17:31:13 UTC
Not a recon, but have you considered a Stratios? It can run DED 4, fight back using neuts and drones, and operate easily in low-sec.
Acrisius Knatch
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2016-04-06 18:50:43 UTC
Shiloh Templeton wrote:
Not a recon, but have you considered a Stratios? It can run DED 4, fight back using neuts and drones, and operate easily in low-sec.



I will definitely give it a try soon. How tough DEDs can a Stratios manage, and do you guys know a place where I can get some pointers on fits and so on?
Matt Benneth
Strictly Moral Support
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#8 - 2016-04-06 18:58:14 UTC
Acrisius Knatch wrote:

I will definitely give it a try soon. How tough DEDs can a Stratios manage, and do you guys know a place where I can get some pointers on fits and so on?


I think Stratios can run all 5/10s except Guristas, and maybe some 6/10s (altho you will have DPS problems in atleast one 6/10 on last overseer).

Check out JonnyPew's channel on youtube for some videos and fits.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#9 - 2016-04-07 11:05:07 UTC
Acrisius Knatch wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Kiddoomer wrote:
I had some fun doing wormhole combat sites in C2 I believe with a rook, as long as you dont launch your drones you're invisible in there unless people combat probe you looking for someone else. And sleepers can be jammed with whatever racial ecm you have to help reduce dps.



No one running sites in a wh is invisible. I hit d-scan and see some wrecks. I hit d-scan and see a different number and/or kind of wreck - I've got you.

You're invisible until you create wrecks. Running pve sites w/out creating wrecks is a real challenge. Lol


You can shoot the wrecks! :D

Thanks for input though :)



Just a data point about wh pve. Sleeper npcs drop blue loot in their wrecks and have decent salvage. They don't have bounties. If you plan to just shoot the sleepers and then their wrecks - you wallet isn't going to grow all that much. It's different than k-space pve.
Acrisius Knatch
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2016-04-07 17:11:15 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Acrisius Knatch wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Kiddoomer wrote:
I had some fun doing wormhole combat sites in C2 I believe with a rook, as long as you dont launch your drones you're invisible in there unless people combat probe you looking for someone else. And sleepers can be jammed with whatever racial ecm you have to help reduce dps.



No one running sites in a wh is invisible. I hit d-scan and see some wrecks. I hit d-scan and see a different number and/or kind of wreck - I've got you.

You're invisible until you create wrecks. Running pve sites w/out creating wrecks is a real challenge. Lol


You can shoot the wrecks! :D

Thanks for input though :)



Just a data point about wh pve. Sleeper npcs drop blue loot in their wrecks and have decent salvage. They don't have bounties. If you plan to just shoot the sleepers and then their wrecks - you wallet isn't going to grow all that much. It's different than k-space pve.


Very true. How are marauders like the vargur in sleeper sites??
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#11 - 2016-04-07 17:57:18 UTC
Acrisius Knatch wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Acrisius Knatch wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Kiddoomer wrote:
I had some fun doing wormhole combat sites in C2 I believe with a rook, as long as you dont launch your drones you're invisible in there unless people combat probe you looking for someone else. And sleepers can be jammed with whatever racial ecm you have to help reduce dps.



No one running sites in a wh is invisible. I hit d-scan and see some wrecks. I hit d-scan and see a different number and/or kind of wreck - I've got you.

You're invisible until you create wrecks. Running pve sites w/out creating wrecks is a real challenge. Lol


You can shoot the wrecks! :D

Thanks for input though :)



Just a data point about wh pve. Sleeper npcs drop blue loot in their wrecks and have decent salvage. They don't have bounties. If you plan to just shoot the sleepers and then their wrecks - you wallet isn't going to grow all that much. It's different than k-space pve.


Very true. How are marauders like the vargur in sleeper sites??


For our C4 home sites any pair of marauders (no kronos) can chew through them and survive. Bring 4 and you're down in th 5 min/site range. C4s are weird though - all the spawns start at over 100km from the warp in. One of the sites is mostly frigs and cruisers - there are better ships than marauders for that one (gilla, sleipnir and so on) because of the high number of frigates vs marauder tracking. Smarties help!

For C5s they are doable but a little ballsy. Again, the more you bring the quicker it goes. The fits get a bit pickier as the alpha goes up. I do C4 in a pvp fit and hope for something "bad" to happen. In C5 sites the sleeper nuet pressure is a lot higher as is the alpha, so you have to dedicate your fit to pve.

C3 and lower I wouldn't bother putting that much isk on the field. Marauders are less efficient as the number of BS per wave go down. C3 - command ships are great. C2 - drakes! C1 - Slingshot and a circus pony will probably work.

C6 - no idea. I would assume too much alpha AND to much neuting for marauders to survive.
Acrisius Knatch
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2016-04-07 18:46:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Acrisius Knatch
Serendipity Lost wrote:


For our C4 home sites any pair of marauders (no kronos) can chew through them and survive. Bring 4 and you're down in th 5 min/site range. C4s are weird though - all the spawns start at over 100km from the warp in. One of the sites is mostly frigs and cruisers - there are better ships than marauders for that one (gilla, sleipnir and so on) because of the high number of frigates vs marauder tracking. Smarties help!

For C5s they are doable but a little ballsy. Again, the more you bring the quicker it goes. The fits get a bit pickier as the alpha goes up. I do C4 in a pvp fit and hope for something "bad" to happen. In C5 sites the sleeper nuet pressure is a lot higher as is the alpha, so you have to dedicate your fit to pve.

C3 and lower I wouldn't bother putting that much isk on the field. Marauders are less efficient as the number of BS per wave go down. C3 - command ships are great. C2 - drakes! C1 - Slingshot and a circus pony will probably work.

C6 - no idea. I would assume too much alpha AND to much neuting for marauders to survive.


I'm big on soloing. How is that in a vargur? Also, you talk about neuting and so on, I assume that means you don't use bastion mode? I remember using a cyclone to run sleeper sites way back, but don't remember what level it was....
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#13 - 2016-04-07 20:58:53 UTC
Matt Benneth wrote:
I think Stratios can run all 5/10s except Guristas, and maybe some 6/10s (altho you will have DPS problems in atleast one 6/10 on last overseer).


5/10s are doable if a little scary. Might *just* break the Sansha overseer in 6/10 but otherwise those are workable. Except Serpentis. Don't do that one.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#14 - 2016-04-08 11:12:48 UTC
Acrisius Knatch wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:


For our C4 home sites any pair of marauders (no kronos) can chew through them and survive. Bring 4 and you're down in th 5 min/site range. C4s are weird though - all the spawns start at over 100km from the warp in. One of the sites is mostly frigs and cruisers - there are better ships than marauders for that one (gilla, sleipnir and so on) because of the high number of frigates vs marauder tracking. Smarties help!

For C5s they are doable but a little ballsy. Again, the more you bring the quicker it goes. The fits get a bit pickier as the alpha goes up. I do C4 in a pvp fit and hope for something "bad" to happen. In C5 sites the sleeper nuet pressure is a lot higher as is the alpha, so you have to dedicate your fit to pve.

C3 and lower I wouldn't bother putting that much isk on the field. Marauders are less efficient as the number of BS per wave go down. C3 - command ships are great. C2 - drakes! C1 - Slingshot and a circus pony will probably work.

C6 - no idea. I would assume too much alpha AND to much neuting for marauders to survive.


I'm big on soloing. How is that in a vargur? Also, you talk about neuting and so on, I assume that means you don't use bastion mode? I remember using a cyclone to run sleeper sites way back, but don't remember what level it was....



They neut right through bastion. It's serious stuff. c5/c6 are more difficult than the high end incursions. If folks are soloing them, I haven't heard about it (I'm not big on elite pve, so me not knowing doesn't mean it doesn't exist). Google for vids / a guide - it may be out there.

The vargur specifically - you'd need to pop a mobile depot and swap fits on the fly to manage range/damage/tank issues. You flat out can't hit the frigates once they get in on you. I'm lazy and impatient, so I run golems and it's pve in easy mode (even w/ the golems in come gank me bro pvp fits). I suppose you could MJD around and make it work, but if my guys corner me into doing pve - I'm a sit and smash them kind of girl. The golem is just in a really good spot right now.
Acrisius Knatch
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2016-04-08 14:02:48 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Acrisius Knatch wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:


For our C4 home sites any pair of marauders (no kronos) can chew through them and survive. Bring 4 and you're down in th 5 min/site range. C4s are weird though - all the spawns start at over 100km from the warp in. One of the sites is mostly frigs and cruisers - there are better ships than marauders for that one (gilla, sleipnir and so on) because of the high number of frigates vs marauder tracking. Smarties help!

For C5s they are doable but a little ballsy. Again, the more you bring the quicker it goes. The fits get a bit pickier as the alpha goes up. I do C4 in a pvp fit and hope for something "bad" to happen. In C5 sites the sleeper nuet pressure is a lot higher as is the alpha, so you have to dedicate your fit to pve.

C3 and lower I wouldn't bother putting that much isk on the field. Marauders are less efficient as the number of BS per wave go down. C3 - command ships are great. C2 - drakes! C1 - Slingshot and a circus pony will probably work.

C6 - no idea. I would assume too much alpha AND to much neuting for marauders to survive.


I'm big on soloing. How is that in a vargur? Also, you talk about neuting and so on, I assume that means you don't use bastion mode? I remember using a cyclone to run sleeper sites way back, but don't remember what level it was....



They neut right through bastion. It's serious stuff. c5/c6 are more difficult than the high end incursions. If folks are soloing them, I haven't heard about it (I'm not big on elite pve, so me not knowing doesn't mean it doesn't exist). Google for vids / a guide - it may be out there.

The vargur specifically - you'd need to pop a mobile depot and swap fits on the fly to manage range/damage/tank issues. You flat out can't hit the frigates once they get in on you. I'm lazy and impatient, so I run golems and it's pve in easy mode (even w/ the golems in come gank me bro pvp fits). I suppose you could MJD around and make it work, but if my guys corner me into doing pve - I'm a sit and smash them kind of girl. The golem is just in a really good spot right now.


Neut through bastion. That's heavy stuff...thanks for all your replies though my friend, I appreciate it :)
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#16 - 2016-04-08 21:58:08 UTC
Acrisius Knatch wrote:
Neut through bastion. That's heavy stuff...thanks for all your replies though my friend, I appreciate it :)


Neuts aren't considered 'EWAR' for the purposes of 'EWAR Immunity'.

Bastion, Triage and Siege modules won't stop it, neither will being in a Titan. In fact, heavy neut platforms are an integral part of combating capital and supercapital ships.

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
Acrisius Knatch
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2016-04-08 22:03:27 UTC
Mephiztopheleze wrote:
Acrisius Knatch wrote:
Neut through bastion. That's heavy stuff...thanks for all your replies though my friend, I appreciate it :)


Neuts aren't considered 'EWAR' for the purposes of 'EWAR Immunity'.

Bastion, Triage and Siege modules won't stop it, neither will being in a Titan. In fact, heavy neut platforms are an integral part of combating capital and supercapital ships.


Interesting...for some reason I forgot this :P