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[Citadels] Carriers

First post
Author
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#121 - 2016-04-01 02:19:51 UTC
KT King wrote:
I very much want to try the new carrier mechanics, but every time I undock a carrier on Sisi and launch fighters that's as far as I can get.

The default hotkey "F" does nothing for fighters now.
No special window opens up.
I cannot find anyway to give my fighters commands or otherwise interact with them.
They sit in space and get agro, but that's about it.

It's really frustrating.... Is there something I need to enable or a window I can toggle that I'm somehow not seeing in the menu?

There should be a button kind of between your capacitor and module icons that switches control to fighters. You can also drag that somewhere to detach the fighter control and see your modules at the same time.
Anhenka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#122 - 2016-04-01 03:11:45 UTC
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:
KT King wrote:
I very much want to try the new carrier mechanics, but every time I undock a carrier on Sisi and launch fighters that's as far as I can get.

The default hotkey "F" does nothing for fighters now.
No special window opens up.
I cannot find anyway to give my fighters commands or otherwise interact with them.
They sit in space and get agro, but that's about it.

It's really frustrating.... Is there something I need to enable or a window I can toggle that I'm somehow not seeing in the menu?

There should be a button kind of between your capacitor and module icons that switches control to fighters. You can also drag that somewhere to detach the fighter control and see your modules at the same time.


There is, but it might not be working. Saw it in the RocketX carrier mechanic video.
KT King
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#123 - 2016-04-01 04:01:02 UTC
Found the button, thank you - seems like a bad place to have it since it was 50% covered by a low slot item I had.....
Marranar Amatin
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#124 - 2016-04-01 08:24:26 UTC
So the tracking links now officially help fighters against smaller targets since they have a bonus on explosion radius and explosion velocity. Thats good.

Tracking links are -3% / 3%, tracking enhancers are -5% / 5%. Thats not so good.

1. Why are tracking enhancers so much better without any downside? They even have lower fitting requirements and dont need cap (not that this matters much). This only increases the lowslot-imbalance of carriers further.

2. why are the values so extremely low? All similar modules have much higher values. For example missile guidance computer has 8.25 velocity bonus and -8.25% radius bonu, and additionally a flight time bonus and a missile velocity bonus, and can be scripted. Guidance enhancer only have 6%, but also affect missile velocity, explosion radius, explosion velocity and explosion radius. Tracking enhancers/computers also have values between 7.5% and 20%.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#125 - 2016-04-01 10:00:33 UTC
Where is the thread for dreads? They need some serious work from what is see on sisi.
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#126 - 2016-04-01 10:41:48 UTC
So, I heard you wanted to warp out, like a minute ago?

Those align times, bro. No. Just no. You don't even need to tackle these things, once they hit grid, they're stuck for the length of a battle.
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#127 - 2016-04-01 10:46:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Morrigan LeSante
Trinkets friend wrote:
So, I heard you wanted to warp out, like a minute ago?

Those align times, bro. No. Just no. You don't even need to tackle these things, once they hit grid, they're stuck for the length of a battle.



Remember that's at 0 skills. Thanny today at all 0s is 73.4s

They're actually improving them.


For reference unfit today at all V is is 27.9


Ed: If I add a 'Basic' Nanofibre Internal Structure to said thanny today the without skills align is 65.9 (may be rounding). With skills that's 25.

Although the mass is up so maybe not quite that simple.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#128 - 2016-04-01 13:37:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Marranar Amatin wrote:
So the tracking links now officially help fighters against smaller targets since they have a bonus on explosion radius and explosion velocity. Thats good.

Tracking links are -3% / 3%, tracking enhancers are -5% / 5%. Thats not so good.

1. Why are tracking enhancers so much better without any downside? They even have lower fitting requirements and dont need cap (not that this matters much). This only increases the lowslot-imbalance of carriers further.

2. why are the values so extremely low? All similar modules have much higher values. For example missile guidance computer has 8.25 velocity bonus and -8.25% radius bonu, and additionally a flight time bonus and a missile velocity bonus, and can be scripted. Guidance enhancer only have 6%, but also affect missile velocity, explosion radius, explosion velocity and explosion radius. Tracking enhancers/computers also have values between 7.5% and 20%.


maybe when the script effects it it will be more than 100%?

but yeah idk why ccp wants to make these things anti sub cap but at the same time not give them the tools to do it as well as other options

or maybe ccp got them backwards?

EDIT:

i just looked at sisi and all of the meta mods for this have the same stat so i'm going to say the numbers are not set yet and are just place holder
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#129 - 2016-04-01 14:44:18 UTC
There's 2 answers for the Enhancer being better than the comp.

Answer 1, the likely one: They ****** it up, and it's supposed to be the other way round.

Answer 2, the good one: It's intended. They compete with DDAs for slots, and as such the DDA will often be the better choice, as it gives 20.5% dps, which is 20.5% better dps even to targets that are sigtanking like a boss. Tracking enhancers would only start being good when shooting frigs, sooo... the enhancer would never get fit, except for shield gank ratting carriers maybe (Thanatos). This way, depending on some math n **** and different targets, the Enhancer probably has the chance of giving better benefits than a DDA, but only on small, relatively fast targets, while the DDA would be the better choice for shooting sitting ducks.


I wish for answer 2, as that would show that CCP did some math and was aware of this situation.
I fear it is answer 1, and they are not aware of the situation, and tracking enhancers will never get fit to carriers after they "correct" it.

PS: I can't do the math right now whether or not 5%/5% ODTE would outperform a DDA in some cases. If someone wants to do it to prove or disprove it, please do so.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#130 - 2016-04-01 15:50:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
There's 2 answers for the Enhancer being better than the comp.

Answer 1, the likely one: They ****** it up, and it's supposed to be the other way round.

Answer 2, the good one: It's intended. They compete with DDAs for slots, and as such the DDA will often be the better choice, as it gives 20.5% dps, which is 20.5% better dps even to targets that are sigtanking like a boss. Tracking enhancers would only start being good when shooting frigs, sooo... the enhancer would never get fit, except for shield gank ratting carriers maybe (Thanatos). This way, depending on some math n **** and different targets, the Enhancer probably has the chance of giving better benefits than a DDA, but only on small, relatively fast targets, while the DDA would be the better choice for shooting sitting ducks.


I wish for answer 2, as that would show that CCP did some math and was aware of this situation.
I fear it is answer 1, and they are not aware of the situation, and tracking enhancers will never get fit to carriers after they "correct" it.

PS: I can't do the math right now whether or not 5%/5% ODTE would outperform a DDA in some cases. If someone wants to do it to prove or disprove it, please do so.



with that logic why isn't it the same for all low slot tracking enhancers?

oh yeah so that armor tank can have an advantage in application where shield has advantage in raw dps
Marranar Amatin
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#131 - 2016-04-01 17:14:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Marranar Amatin
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
PS: I can't do the math right now whether or not 5%/5% ODTE would outperform a DDA in some cases. If someone wants to do it to prove or disprove it, please do so.



Short answer: no it cannot.

That would require a drf roughly four times larger than a citadel torpedo, and that is pretty unlikely.
We do not know the drf, but guessing I would place it around 3-4, which gives a maximum damage increase of about 7%-8%.
Which is consistent with my tests that showed roughly the same number.
For the 3%/-3% of the computers, this results in 5% damage increase, which is also what I measured.

A DDA is ALWAYS much better. Also a second DDA is always much better. A third DDA is still better, even though not by much.
Only the forth DDA might perform worse against small and fast targets, due to stacking penalty. (the forth DDA is still better than one tracking comp).
Lugh Crow-Slave
#132 - 2016-04-01 17:43:36 UTC
Marranar Amatin wrote:
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
PS: I can't do the math right now whether or not 5%/5% ODTE would outperform a DDA in some cases. If someone wants to do it to prove or disprove it, please do so.



Short answer: no it cannot.

That would require a drf roughly four times larger than a citadel torpedo, and that is pretty unlikely.
We do not know the drf, but guessing I would place it around 3-4, which gives a maximum damage increase of about 7%-8%.
Which is consistent with my tests that showed roughly the same number.
For the 3%/-3% of the computers, this results in 5% damage increase, which is also what I measured.

A DDA is ALWAYS much better. Also a second DDA is always much better. A third DDA is still better, even though not by much.
Only the forth DDA might perform worse against small and fast targets, due to stacking penalty. (the forth DDA is still better than one tracking comp).


like i said since all the meta mods are the same atm i think these are just placeholder numbers
Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#133 - 2016-04-01 19:56:18 UTC
looks good. 2 tank carriers. 2 dps carriers. nice nice

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro

Lugh Crow-Slave
#134 - 2016-04-01 20:02:00 UTC
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
looks good. 2 tank carriers. 2 dps carriers. nice nice


Lol look deaper and two me when you would use any carriers over something else
Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#135 - 2016-04-01 20:06:58 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
looks good. 2 tank carriers. 2 dps carriers. nice nice


Lol look deaper and two me when you would use any carriers over something else

wat?

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro

Lugh Crow-Slave
#136 - 2016-04-01 20:36:33 UTC
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
looks good. 2 tank carriers. 2 dps carriers. nice nice


Lol look deaper and two me when you would use any carriers over something else

wat?


right now the only thing carriers can do is kill sub caps but there are other things that do that job better for less sp
Shakira Akira
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#137 - 2016-04-01 21:09:12 UTC
So let me get this right.. I currently have fighters to 5 and fighter bombers to 4. I can use the current fighters. (templars. einherji etc) Once the changes come in. I will have the new heavy fighters skill to 4, keep my fighters skill to 5.. but in order to be able to use templars and einherj I will have to go and train the new "light fighter" skill.
Anhenka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#138 - 2016-04-01 22:21:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Anhenka
Edit: was wrong apparently. I could have sworn I saw picture of the fighter skills requirement for the current fighters that didn't require light fighters, but I guess not.
Marranar Amatin
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#139 - 2016-04-01 22:36:35 UTC
No, you are wrong and Shakira is right.

You need the light figter skill to use the old fighters, not only for the light interceptor fighters. So if you could use templar before, then you have to train an additional skill to still be able to use it.

But to be honest I do not really care about that. I just want carriers to be useful, if I have to train one additional skill for that, so be it.
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#140 - 2016-04-01 22:45:26 UTC
Yes, you'll need the new skill. Buy it now, inject it, train it to 3 or 4. Voila, on release you're ready.