Upcoming Feature and Change Feedback Center

Right. So the carrier locks. Then on the next tick, the fighters start locking. THEN the tick after they finish locking, they fire.

If you can't get a frigate or nano cruiser out in that time, you're bad.

I'm not saying they are hard to counter. Their base application is too high. And a Guardian, btw, has a low sig, usually AB, and can have upwards of 100k ehp. So yes, it will take a lot to kill it. I'm saying that it should instablap dessies/frigs and cripple cruisers with single volleys.
The blap phoenix was perfectly fine. You apply 30% damage to a cruiser. It was enough considering 100k volley.

And lets do the basic math. Heavy rocket salvo is 100 radius. Most cruisers have 100 sig or over. The salvo is 60% of the dps. So 60% right off the top. The weapon has base 240 radius, so about 40% damage with 40% of the dps. This is 76% of the dps is applied to a cruiser. I ignore the velocity factor because it is overcome with 2x omni links or 1 web, easily supplied by a carrier.

And weapon disrupting/jamming will not help you prevent the volley damage that will instablap your face because fighter recalling. Maybe you should learn more about PvP mechanics before commenting.

Are you mental? "Less application than before the change". Have you even flown a fighter carrier before AND after the change against subcaps? You can instablap sabres right now. You couldn't even touch anything below a cruiser before the change. The new fighters use missile calculation now, not tracking. I just broke down the damage calculation for you.

If it took your 2 carriers 3 volleys, to kill a T1 cruiser, then you must have garbage skills/trash fits. It's like you play the forums more than you play the game.

Ignoring the velocity to compensate for a single web/ 2 omnis is reasonable in any sense, considering explosion velocity is 160 m/s, base cruiser speeds are around 200-250 m/s. Easily compensated with one of the above

My issue isn't with being able to kill them. Because I can and have. My issue is with the damage application. It's ridiculous. Two shots to a 10mn AB phantasm with 30k ehp going 2500 m/s. A blap phoenix that dual webs and dual TPs that wouldn't kill it that quickly (pre-citadel).

Carriers should need support to be able to do most of it's damage potential. As of right now, it doesn't need any support to apply most damage to cruisers and ~40-50% to dessies. That is broken.

Lets do some basic math again. Let's say your target is a thrasher, 56m base sig, 340 m/s base velocity. That's 56% application with 60% of the dps (missiles, 100m radius). Again, ignoring velocity in part due to a dual omnidirectional setup on a carrier. Now the turret attack will apply approximately 24% of it's damage (240m radius), which is 40% of dps. That comes to approximately 43% damage total applied.

This is assuming the Thrasher is not AB fit (mwd sig bloom counters your velocity damage reduction), and the carrier has either 2 omnis or 1 60% web on the thrasher. Now say its a max dps fit carrier, 43% of 4k is about 1.7k dps, to a dessie with approx 6-8k ehp. One shot - dead.

That is broken. Things get even more stupid should it be shield rigged/extender fit, or we're talking interdictors, which have 70 base sig (sabre).

Yeah, good luck outrunning 20k m/s fighters. Or the 2.1 km/sec base speed of Templar IIs with one navi computer on a carrier that's not an Archon.

And no, you need a specific setup in gangs of under 8 or so to kill carriers, assuming you're not going to face tank them with 4 guardians, or face tank with a marauder. You would need to run a triple point hictor with a triple web rapier for 1 carrier, and be able to kite or kill fighters quickly (oracle support would work) to not die, in your example. This is not a common fleet setup, and goodbye your entire gang once a second carrier gets dropped.

Again this digresses with the main issue - Carriers are broken in application to smaller targets (cruisers and below).

And by Naglfars, I assume you mean Big Miker's new video. When flown by a competent pilot against incompetent players, yes, it is powerful. But if you watch there was plenty of things he could not track/kill. That and dreadnoughts in general will tank around 15-20k dps, and no one in their right mind would take a fight against one where they did not have overwhelming numbers, dps comparable to the tank with neuts, and/or overwhelming dps.

Uh huh.

Doesn't matter unless you can shoehorn half a million capacitor onto the thing.

also you keep talking about how the omnis make up for the speed part but just one disruptor (unscripted un-bonused) would more than null two omnis.....


i mean it man just bring some e-war

Hey fruitloop. Let's use that math skill you didn't learn in whatever school you went to. Let's start with the Missile Damage equation, so I can show you why I ignore velocity.

Damage = Base_Damage * MIN(MIN(sig/Er,1) , (Ev/Er * sig/vel)^(log(drf) / log(5.5)) )

Since the explosion stats of the heavy rocket salvo are similar to a heavy missile, lets use the damage reduction factor (drf) of 3.
Now our target stats. A thrasher has a signature of 56. Under 1 60% web, the base velocity is 136 m/s.
Our missile stats, as indicated above (no omnidirectionals), is 100m sig, and 120 m/s explosion velocity. For easy rounding, let's use 100 damage.
Plug in the values (I used a helpful calculator, https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/3as8d1/couldnt_find_a_missile_damage_calculator_that_let/ ),
And the volley damage is 56. From 100. 56% Damage applied. Dang, that's just like velocity can be ignored. But wait, there's more!
Plug in the same values, and dang, look at that. 23.33% for the turret attack (240m sig this time). This is literally the application that is in game, and would be in most situations should a carrier pilot know what they're doing.
Also, for a cruiser moving at 250 m/s, 110 signature, the salvo applies 66.26% assuming no omnis or a web. Take into account 1 web, salvo applies 100%, and beam attack applies 46%.

This is with ONE WEB. Damage applies 43% to a thrasher, and 76% to a cruiser, assuming BASE STATS ONLY. Are you people daft or something? That is broken when you are talking 4k dps. It becomes a solowtfpwnallmobile.

I'm not going to dispute your numbers BUT will dispute their relevance here - They have absolutely nothing to do with the post I was responding to. While yes a carrier with support (as I stated in my response) will have the ability to alpha smaller stuff, if they don't take precautions, a lone carrier sitting "thousands of K's" off a station undock - DOESN'T

I will add - A capital ship designed to kill small ships should be able to kill small ships with all but impunity - That is after all what they are designed for. If your poor T1 dessie gets alpha'd by a carrier and it is a problem for you, don't blame the carrier - It is doing exactly what it is designed for - Adapt or Die, this is Eve.
Shite, my arty cane will alpha thrashers - Are they OP too, or just working as intended?


And on top of all your stats you leave out the most rudimentary part of pvp - USE LOGI. Logi will save even a lowly thrasher but then that destroys your whole point - Doesn't it? I mean the carrier has to have support which is needed to kill his targets but his attackers shouldn't also need support to kill said carrier?
Apply logi reps to your missile calculations, then come back and print the results, T1 logi will suffice but make your point meaningful - Otherwise it is just meaningless statistics and everyone knows - EFT doesn't = win. Better still, just post the numbers Without the web, which actually applies to the scenario of this discussion.

I don't know of a lone carrier that from "several thousand K's can apply a web - Do you?
Go back, read the post I was responding to - Then go ask mum to clean your soother because it just fell in the toilet (along with your not so relevant reply).

And really - You need to resort to name calling? How immature...