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[Citadels] Carriers

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Lugh Crow-Slave
#821 - 2016-05-19 03:39:27 UTC
the carriers look fine just way to small

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Shalashaska Adam
Snakes and Lasers
#822 - 2016-05-19 06:20:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Shalashaska Adam
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
the carriers look fine just way to small


I think pretty much everyone would agree the Thanatos looks like garbage.

CCP have at least made it clear that a resize is coming, I don't foresee that happening without new models.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#823 - 2016-05-19 07:05:01 UTC
i agree the than looks like crap but most ppl i ask for their fav looking ships they tell me thany and nyx


so long as they dont go with the redesign they showed a few years ago. it looked great for a logi but does not fit the new goliath tank the chimera has now

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Shalashaska Adam
Snakes and Lasers
#824 - 2016-05-19 07:56:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Shalashaska Adam
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
i agree the than looks like crap but most ppl i ask for their fav looking ships they tell me thany and nyx


Nyx most definitely.

But the thanny is like the assault on your senses that you must endure before you get the payoff that is the Nyx.

If they could redesign it to look much more like it's bigger brother, it would make a whole lot of people happy.

As it stands, it is like the Aeon of regular carriers, an order of magnitude more ugly than the others.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#825 - 2016-05-19 08:04:46 UTC
lol i think you just have n issue with asymmetry. but symmetry is just boring

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Khan Wrenth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#826 - 2016-05-19 08:32:22 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
lol i think you just have n issue with asymmetry. but symmetry is just boring

I agree. But, like all style choices, it can be done well, or it can be done...poorly, and have similar results to someone choosing to open the ark in an Indiana Jones movie (so maybe a small model of the Aeon is actually what was in the Ark all along. Now we know). I mean, can you look at an Aeon without feeling like your face is melting off? It's hideous beyond compare. But, the Omen-series is beautiful and graceful.

Heck, I liked the old Blackbird model (back when Blackbirds were cool and didn't look like overgrown Gecko drones). The old Condor model was perfectly okay, though I would argue it was nothing spectacular either.

Thorax is another fine example. Heck, the Thorax series of cruiser is dang-near iconic for EvE nowadays. In fact most of the Gallente lineup is asym, and most of them look fantastic.

It's just a fine line between, doing something, and, doing something right.

Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#827 - 2016-05-19 10:26:02 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
i agree the than looks like crap but most ppl i ask for their fav looking ships they tell me thany and nyx


so long as they dont go with the redesign they showed a few years ago. it looked great for a logi but does not fit the new goliath tank the chimera has now


Nyx is definitely great,

the thanatos could use a facelift.
Shalashaska Adam
Snakes and Lasers
#828 - 2016-05-19 15:34:38 UTC
Rather odd that we have only seen a concept for the chimera, the carrier of the four that is least in need of a new model.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#829 - 2016-05-21 10:32:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
be cool if they made the thanny look similar to the domi as that would be unconventional for a carrier (looking more like a dread) but something taking queues from the algos would be good too

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Shalashaska Adam
Snakes and Lasers
#830 - 2016-05-28 15:14:52 UTC
The Chimera desperately needs it's fighter hangar size increased.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#831 - 2016-05-28 16:01:35 UTC
i have been saying that for a while. glad more ppl are realizing it. the tank on the chimera means nothing as its fighters will be dead long b4 it is

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Minibren
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#832 - 2016-05-28 22:35:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Minibren
The damage application of the new fighters is way too high especially for the burst damage. The special ability has an explosion radius of 100 meters compared with 240 for the normal attack. If the explosion radius on the special ability was increased to somewhere around the normal attack this would make much more sense and mean ships wouldn't get one shot as much by a single carrier. IMO a large proportion of the problem however is that transversal makes no difference to the damage application and its basically just being hit by missiles. The fighters also move way too fast.

The burst damage could also be reduced by halving the cycle time, halving the damage and doubling the ammo.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#833 - 2016-05-29 01:03:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
.... if you are getting alphad by fighters toy screwed up. Or the carrier had support. A cruiser should have way more than 43kehp (max alpha of a faction fit nid) anything else should be small an fast enough to avoid most of the damage. Fighters are rather slow except for a20s burst that has a cool down of one minute.


Carriers are meant to counter logistics if they have a support fleet and that is just what they do with timing their missile barrage. But something else has to be shooting the target as well or tackling and painting or if it's small.

And ffs being ecm do that and you can ignore the carrier




1 carriers are op if you try to fight them with fits and tactics used against pre citadel carriers

2 carriers are underpowered if you try to fit and fly then lo like pre citadel

3 carriers are pretty good if you play to their new strengths but are easy to counter if you know what you are doing.

4 overall just bring a dread it's better.


Adapt or die

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#834 - 2016-05-29 06:05:13 UTC
Minibren wrote:
The damage application of the new fighters is way too high especially for the burst damage. The special ability has an explosion radius of 100 meters compared with 240 for the normal attack. If the explosion radius on the special ability was increased to somewhere around the normal attack this would make much more sense and mean ships wouldn't get one shot as much by a single carrier. IMO a large proportion of the problem however is that transversal makes no difference to the damage application and its basically just being hit by missiles. The fighters also move way too fast.

The burst damage could also be reduced by halving the cycle time, halving the damage and doubling the ammo.

So how much further should carriers be nerfed so a few subcaps can easily kill them?
Problem your describing is - You want to be able to kill a new carrier using old tactics and ships.

Carriers aren't the problem here - It is what your using to fight them. A single carrier is no threat to a prepared subcap gang. Just look at the kilboards and see how many die each day..

Problem your describing is - You want to be able to kill a new carrier using old tactics and ships.

Burst damage is very limited now - 8 volleys over 160 seconds is not OP - Again, it is what you are flying and how you fly it that is the problem, not the ability of the carrier.

A little hint for fighting carriers - Kill the fighters first, carriers have a very limited supply.....
Oh and for the real newies - Use logi, carrier alpha is not all that good compared to logi reps.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#835 - 2016-05-29 06:11:25 UTC
Quote:

Burst damage is very limited now - 8 volleys over 160 seconds is not OP

don't forget that is then followed by another 53s to refuel them.

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Milostiev
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#836 - 2016-05-29 13:16:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Milostiev
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Minibren wrote:
The damage application of the new fighters is way too high especially for the burst damage. The special ability has an explosion radius of 100 meters compared with 240 for the normal attack. If the explosion radius on the special ability was increased to somewhere around the normal attack this would make much more sense and mean ships wouldn't get one shot as much by a single carrier. IMO a large proportion of the problem however is that transversal makes no difference to the damage application and its basically just being hit by missiles. The fighters also move way too fast.

The burst damage could also be reduced by halving the cycle time, halving the damage and doubling the ammo.

So how much further should carriers be nerfed so a few subcaps can easily kill them?
Problem your describing is - You want to be able to kill a new carrier using old tactics and ships.

Carriers aren't the problem here - It is what your using to fight them. A single carrier is no threat to a prepared subcap gang. Just look at the kilboards and see how many die each day..

Problem your describing is - You want to be able to kill a new carrier using old tactics and ships.

Burst damage is very limited now - 8 volleys over 160 seconds is not OP - Again, it is what you are flying and how you fly it that is the problem, not the ability of the carrier.

A little hint for fighting carriers - Kill the fighters first, carriers have a very limited supply.....
Oh and for the real newies - Use logi, carrier alpha is not all that good compared to logi reps.



Don't know about him, but i personally want to go through a gate, or undock from a station, without being instalocked and instapopped by a ship, thousands of km's away .... while i am in a bloody frig.
I have been on both sides of this situation, i've been the one who used the carrier to do this, and also the one who got popped this way.

The application aside (it is a problem), the bigger problem is the NSA, it is a horribly broken module.

To survive the initial volley from a regular carrier you now need 24k ehp at least, and that's not counting the gun dps.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#837 - 2016-05-29 13:30:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
you uhh....

you do understand that the carrier AND the fighters have to lock before they can do anything right?

also if you need at least 24k ehp to survive why do so many frigs and cruisers survive the alpha with less?

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Minibren
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#838 - 2016-05-29 16:26:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Minibren
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
you uhh....

you do understand that the carrier AND the fighters have to lock before they can do anything right?

also if you need at least 24k ehp to survive why do so many frigs and cruisers survive the alpha with less?


A carrier can lock any target in less than a few seconds with the new networked sensor array.

We had an AB buffer fit phantasm going at 2.5km/s and he still got two shot going at this speed with an ab. Surely the AB should mitigate a good amount of the damage. I one shot a frigate with over 10k ehp on the station with my carrier too. Why should my fighters apply so much volley to a frigate.

I never said I don't know how to kill the new carriers, as can be seen here [url=https://zkillboard.com/kill/54293533/]https://zkillboard.com/kill/54293533/[/url

Edit:
I also agree the NSA is probably a large part of the problem. Being able to lock in a carrier as fast an interceptor..... Maybe it should be toned down.
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#839 - 2016-05-29 17:42:20 UTC
And pray tell what the NSA does for the fighters lock time?
Minibren
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#840 - 2016-05-29 21:23:38 UTC
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
And pray tell what the NSA does for the fighters lock time?


Fighters have almost the same scan res as a carrier with an NSA turned on.