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C3 solo Maelstrom fit. Feedback requested

Author
Ligraph
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2016-03-27 22:16:14 UTC
Questions:
I want to fit a MJD and Painter for frig killing. That gives me tank slot problems though.

Should I use Artillery? Especially if I can fit a MJD.

RReper for drones? Gives me major cap problems though.

Sentry drones?

Fit:
[Maelstrom, Maelstrom Wher]

Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Domination X-Large Shield Booster
X5 Enduring Stasis Webifier

Dual 650mm 'Scout' Repeating Cannon I, Titanium Sabot L
Dual 650mm 'Scout' Repeating Cannon I, Titanium Sabot L
Dual 650mm 'Scout' Repeating Cannon I, Titanium Sabot L
Dual 650mm 'Scout' Repeating Cannon I, Titanium Sabot L
Dual 650mm 'Scout' Repeating Cannon I, Titanium Sabot L
Dual 650mm 'Scout' Repeating Cannon I, Titanium Sabot L
Dual 650mm 'Scout' Repeating Cannon I, Titanium Sabot L
Dual 650mm 'Scout' Repeating Cannon I, Titanium Sabot L

Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


Praetor II x3
Acolyte II x2
Acolyte II x3


Infiltrator II x5
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2016-03-28 01:53:12 UTC
you typically are not going to have everything on at once so don't try to remain capstable with everything running if you are going to have RR for drones.

I don't have a fitting tool installed on my new machine and also do not currently have access to the game to look stuff up. But just looking are your fit I would say that the MJD is certainly something that you use for sniping. The MJD and web do not belong on the same PvE ship IMHO.

I also do not see any tracking mods on that thing which again look like a problem to me.

Once again with the resits I hav a hard time believing that 2 invuls is a better omni tank than using an EM hardener to close up the huge EM hole that the Mael has.

Also those Capacitor Flux coils are shooting yourself in the foot. Cap regen is a percentage of your maximum capacitor capacity at a specific interval. Anything that decrease the interval or increased the percent or the amount will all give you more regen. With the flux coil you are increasing the rate but decreasing the amount they offset each other to a point. If Anything I would say you might want to look into a PDU but probably get rid of the flux coils and put in a cap recharger. Maybe 2 caprechargers or one and a PDU. Also put in some tracking mods in the lows.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2016-03-28 01:57:07 UTC
To be perfectly honest however I just don't think that Large weapons are good for low class wormholes and possibly not good at all for sleepers without remote tracking boosts.

If you want to solo lower class wormhole content I'd stick with medium sized ships and weapons. So that means T2 or T3 or sticking with the easier sites and using a BC. Ideally you want friends in wormholes and I certainly would not recommend expensive faction or dead space mods in solo wormhole content.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2016-03-28 02:00:04 UTC
In Eve every ship and every module has it's place. Bigger is not inherently better. It is better at some things and worse at others. Your posts lead me to believe that you are stuck in the progression mindset from other games.

I also don't think that you understand gunnery very well.

http://www.hostile.dk/files/eve/eve-tracking101.swf

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Ligraph
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2016-03-28 02:14:25 UTC
ergherhdfgh wrote:
In Eve every ship and every module has it's place. Bigger is not inherently better. It is better at some things and worse at others. Your posts lead me to believe that you are stuck in the progression mindset from other games.


I would fly a T3 Cruiser if I could, believe me. And I plan to eventually. But I'm looking at trim to skill into and cost, and with that BSs are better than T3s atm. Although a bit more vulnerable.

ergherhdfgh wrote:

I also don't think that you understand gunnery very well.

http://www.hostile.dk/files/eve/eve-tracking101.swf


I understand how it works in theory. I just don't know how much tracking/sig I will need to hit something.
Wombat65Au Egdald
R I S E
#6 - 2016-03-28 03:23:10 UTC
Ligraph wrote:
Questions:
I want to fit a MJD and Painter for frig killing. That gives me tank slot problems though.


Target painters are used to help missiles do more damage. Painters do not help other weapons, only missiles.
A Maelstrom cannot fit missile launchers, it is a gun-only ship. If you are looking to fit a ship for solo-ing C3's, a target painter on a Maelstrom is useless.

Quote:
Should I use Artillery? Especially if I can fit a MJD.


That can work. Snipe the rats, then jump when they get too close for the artillery to keep their aim, snipe some more, jump again, etc.

Quote:
RReper for drones? Gives me major cap problems though.


Maybe fit a Capacitor Booster, which uses it's own type of charges to inject power into your capacitor.

Quote:
Sentry drones?


Sentry drones cannot move once you have launched them from your ship, and they are long range which means they cannot keep their aim on ships which get close. If you want to use sentries with a MJD, it's launch sentries, shoot stuff, pick up sentries, jump, launch sentries, shoot stuff, pick up sentries, jump, wash, rinse, repeat.

Possibly fit the Mael with autocannon. Launch sentries, set your ship to orbit them, let the sentries deal with the long range ships, you deal with anything that gets close with the autocannon.

A Tracking Computer or two and perhaps some tracking bonused ammunition such as Titanium Sabot or Depleted Uranium will help the autocannon keep their aim on smaller ships. Tracking Computers also give a bonus to the range of your guns, both autocannon and artillery. There is another version of a tracking computer you can fit to your ship which improves drone weapon range and tracking, but I forget it's exact name right now.

Did you know there is a test server you can log into where you can try out stuff like this? It's called "Singularity", also called "Sisi". If you are using the new game launcher, you can select the Singularity server from a menu near the top left corner of the launcher window.

Character data is not refreshed from the main game server to Sisi regularly, so your characters skills and wallet on Sisi can be behind the main game server. The good points are that PvP on Sisi is by mutual consent only, being ganked by other players on Sisi can result in consequences from CCP for the gankers. Also, CCP seeds the markets on Sisi with pretty much every item for only 100 isk each. You still need to have trained the right skills to use the different ships and modules on Sisi.

Want to try out all the different battleships? 100 isk per ship, 100 isk per module, 100 isk per drone and 100 isk per round of ammunition. If your wallet on Sisi is low, find some NPC rats to blow up, you'll get the same payout as you do on the main game server. You cannot bring anything from Sisi back to the main game server, no skills, no isk, no ships, no equipment. Everything you acquire on Sisi stays on Sisi. The only thing you bring back is knowledge of what works for you and what doesn't from your testing on Sisi.

Also be aware that when CCP does refresh character data from the main game server to Sisi, your skills, wallet and even the ships and items you have on Sisi will be replaced with what you have on the main game server. You may find yourself needing to re-buy stuff on Sisi because you didn't own that stuff on the main server when a character refresh happened.


I'll leave commenting on the fit you listed to others.
Ligraph
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2016-03-28 03:39:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Ligraph
Wombat65Au Egdald wrote:
Ligraph wrote:
Questions:
I want to fit a MJD and Painter for frig killing. That gives me tank slot problems though.


Target painters are used to help missiles do more damage. Painters do not help other weapons, only missiles.
A Maelstrom cannot fit missile launchers, it is a gun-only ship. If you are looking to fit a ship for solo-ing C3's, a target painter on a Maelstrom is useless.

Quote:
Should I use Artillery? Especially if I can fit a MJD.


That can work. Snipe the rats, then jump when they get too close for the artillery to keep their aim, snipe some more, jump again, etc.

Quote:
RReper for drones? Gives me major cap problems though.


Maybe fit a Capacitor Booster, which uses it's own type of charges to inject power into your capacitor.

Quote:
Sentry drones?


Sentry drones cannot move once you have launched them from your ship, and they are long range which means they cannot keep their aim on ships which get close. If you want to use sentries with a MJD, it's launch sentries, shoot stuff, pick up sentries, jump, launch sentries, shoot stuff, pick up sentries, jump, wash, rinse, repeat.

Possibly fit the Mael with autocannon. Launch sentries, set your ship to orbit them, let the sentries deal with the long range ships, you deal with anything that gets close with the autocannon.

A Tracking Computer or two and perhaps some tracking bonused ammunition such as Titanium Sabot or Depleted Uranium will help the autocannon keep their aim on smaller ships. Tracking Computers also give a bonus to the range of your guns, both autocannon and artillery. There is another version of a tracking computer you can fit to your ship which improves drone weapon range and tracking, but I forget it's exact name right now.

Did you know there is a test server you can log into where you can try out stuff like this? It's called "Singularity", also called "Sisi". If you are using the new game launcher, you can select the Singularity server from a menu near the top left corner of the launcher window.

Character data is not refreshed from the main game server to Sisi regularly, so your characters skills and wallet on Sisi can be behind the main game server. The good points are that PvP on Sisi is by mutual consent only, being ganked by other players on Sisi can result in consequences from CCP for the gankers. Also, CCP seeds the markets on Sisi with pretty much every item for only 100 isk each. You still need to have trained the right skills to use the different ships and modules on Sisi.

Want to try out all the different battleships? 100 isk per ship, 100 isk per module, 100 isk per drone and 100 isk per round of ammunition. If your wallet on Sisi is low, find some NPC rats to blow up, you'll get the same payout as you do on the main game server. You cannot bring anything from Sisi back to the main game server, no skills, no isk, no ships, no equipment. Everything you acquire on Sisi stays on Sisi. The only thing you bring back is knowledge of what works for you and what doesn't from your testing on Sisi.

Also be aware that when CCP does refresh character data from the main game server to Sisi, your skills, wallet and even the ships and items you have on Sisi will be replaced with what you have on the main game server. You may find yourself needing to re-buy stuff on Sisi because you didn't own that stuff on the main server when a character refresh happened.


I'll leave commenting on the fit you listed to others.


Thanks for the info about Artys and TPs. Was actually about to test the fit on SiSi as I'm righting this, couple injectors short though :(.

I'm also going to try using just Light drones to deal with the frigates, as well as MJD-Arty for everything else. From what I've heard, sleepers only target drones one above their size, e.g. frigs won't kill light drones but will kill medium. Gota do some testing on it though.

I thought about using a Cap Booster but carting modules into WHs is a pain and I don't have a spare mid slot. Same with tracking computers. Although I might trade a Gyro for a Tracking Enhancer.



If someone is willing to give me some skill injectors that they aren't going to use on SiSi (or tranquility...) that woule be great!
Wombat65Au Egdald
R I S E
#8 - 2016-03-28 05:31:00 UTC
If you're worried about damage to your drones, there are several T1 battleships which have bonuses to drone dps and tank, but not from Minmatar. The Gallente Dominix and the Amarr Armageddon do have drone bonuses, as well as enlarged drone bays which let you carry more drones (carry more spare drones or carry different types of drones that do different types of damage).

Hint: You do not have to fit hybrid turrets to Gallente ships, and you do not have to fit energy turrets to Amarr ships. You could fit artillery or autocannon turrets to them. The Domi and the Geddon do not have turret bonuses, so you do not face any penalties for fitting them with artillery or autocannons. I've personally tested medium artillery on a Gallente battlecruiser and it works fine. This means you could train into the ships themselves, but use weapons you've already trained for, reducing the total training time for the ship and it's weapons.

Both the Domi and the Geddon have a 125Mbit drone bandwidth, and like every other non-capital ship, you can only operate 5 drones at the same time, even if you still have enough bandwidth for more than 5 drones. There are a few other battleships that have drone bonuses, but from memory the Domi and the Geddon are the only basic T1 battleships with drone bonuses.

An alternative to a remote repairer to fix your drones is repair drones. The down side is that non-capital ships are limited to 5 drones (or less) in space at any given time, so having a repair drone out to look after your combat drones means using one less combat drone. Also, you need to manually control the repair drone to make it repair the combat drones, and this involves targeting any damaged drones in the same way you target hostile ships. This has two effects. 1: The number of hostile ships you can target is reduced, because you are targeting your own drones to repair them (but you have to do the same if you use a remote repairer on your ship). 2: If you're not careful you could start shooting at your own drones.

Another detail to realise is that shields regenerate for free, and this includes drone shields. Armor never regenerates for free, you must do something to repair armor, including drone armor. While there are modules that boost the shield regeneration rate for ships, there are no modules that do the same for drones. if you are flying a T1 battleship and intend to use light drones, you should be able to carry multiple sets of drones.

Make sure your drones are set to passive, so they don't fly off on their own. If you want to keep the drones close to your ship to deal with small ships that get close to you, having your drones on aggressive can allow them to fly off to targets further away from you than you want them to. In passive mode, drones only attack the targets you specifically tell them to, then they come back to your ship and wait for your next order. There is no way to set drones so that they will only attack targets within X km of your ship while in aggressive mode, if they are in aggressive mode, they will attack any hostile target within your drone control range.

Since drone shields regenerate (slowly) for free, don't worry about repairing their shield damage. If they start taking armor damage, bring them back into your ship and launch a new set of drones that are at full health. This will also cause the hostile ships to drop aggro on the drones, at least for a little while.

When you've finished clearing out the hostile ships, launch any drones with armor damage, and an armor repair drone. Target your damaged drones like you target hostile ships, and tell your repair drone to "engage" the damaged drones. You will need to monitor the repairs, the repair drone will not change it's target until you tell it to, but you can repair all their armor damage for the cost of buying the logistic drone skill and the cost of the repair drone. if any drones have gone into hull damage, that needs a separate hull repair drone, or just pay to repair that damage in an NPC station.

There is a bit of an art to using drones well, they aren't a magic bullet, you do need to manage and monitor them. Also consider T2 drones instead of T1's. T2 drones have a larger tank, so they can take more damage before they pop,
Ligraph
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2016-03-28 06:07:28 UTC
Wombat65Au Egdald wrote:
If you're worried about damage to your drones, there are several T1 battleships which have bonuses to drone dps and tank, but not from Minmatar. The Gallente Dominix and the Amarr Armageddon do have drone bonuses, as well as enlarged drone bays which let you carry more drones (carry more spare drones or carry different types of drones that do different types of damage).

Hint: You do not have to fit hybrid turrets to Gallente ships, and you do not have to fit energy turrets to Amarr ships. You could fit artillery or autocannon turrets to them. The Domi and the Geddon do not have turret bonuses, so you do not face any penalties for fitting them with artillery or autocannons. I've personally tested medium artillery on a Gallente battlecruiser and it works fine. This means you could train into the ships themselves, but use weapons you've already trained for, reducing the total training time for the ship and it's weapons.

Both the Domi and the Geddon have a 125Mbit drone bandwidth, and like every other non-capital ship, you can only operate 5 drones at the same time, even if you still have enough bandwidth for more than 5 drones. There are a few other battleships that have drone bonuses, but from memory the Domi and the Geddon are the only basic T1 battleships with drone bonuses.

An alternative to a remote repairer to fix your drones is repair drones. The down side is that non-capital ships are limited to 5 drones (or less) in space at any given time, so having a repair drone out to look after your combat drones means using one less combat drone. Also, you need to manually control the repair drone to make it repair the combat drones, and this involves targeting any damaged drones in the same way you target hostile ships. This has two effects. 1: The number of hostile ships you can target is reduced, because you are targeting your own drones to repair them (but you have to do the same if you use a remote repairer on your ship). 2: If you're not careful you could start shooting at your own drones.

Another detail to realise is that shields regenerate for free, and this includes drone shields. Armor never regenerates for free, you must do something to repair armor, including drone armor. While there are modules that boost the shield regeneration rate for ships, there are no modules that do the same for drones. if you are flying a T1 battleship and intend to use light drones, you should be able to carry multiple sets of drones.

Make sure your drones are set to passive, so they don't fly off on their own. If you want to keep the drones close to your ship to deal with small ships that get close to you, having your drones on aggressive can allow them to fly off to targets further away from you than you want them to. In passive mode, drones only attack the targets you specifically tell them to, then they come back to your ship and wait for your next order. There is no way to set drones so that they will only attack targets within X km of your ship while in aggressive mode, if they are in aggressive mode, they will attack any hostile target within your drone control range.

Since drone shields regenerate (slowly) for free, don't worry about repairing their shield damage. If they start taking armor damage, bring them back into your ship and launch a new set of drones that are at full health. This will also cause the hostile ships to drop aggro on the drones, at least for a little while.

When you've finished clearing out the hostile ships, launch any drones with armor damage, and an armor repair drone. Target your damaged drones like you target hostile ships, and tell your repair drone to "engage" the damaged drones. You will need to monitor the repairs, the repair drone will not change it's target until you tell it to, but you can repair all their armor damage for the cost of buying the logistic drone skill and the cost of the repair drone. if any drones have gone into hull damage, that needs a separate hull repair drone, or just pay to repair that damage in an NPC station.

There is a bit of an art to using drones well, they aren't a magic bullet, you do need to manage and monitor them. Also consider T2 drones instead of T1's. T2 drones have a larger tank, so they can take more damage before they pop,


Tried a Domi fit, needed dual reps for c3s which made cap a pain, etc. Reason I went with mael is the repper bonus. Using a hypernon might work but it seems easier to fit a shield tank than armor. Could just be me though.


Will reper drones repair other drones of mine? Thought they didn't.

I kinda decided to use turrets over drones mostly replacing drones if I mess up is a pain.
Wombat65Au Egdald
R I S E
#10 - 2016-03-28 06:58:08 UTC
Ligraph wrote:

Tried a Domi fit, needed dual reps for c3s which made cap a pain, etc. Reason I went with mael is the repper bonus. Using a hypernon might work but it seems easier to fit a shield tank than armor. Could just be me though.

Will reper drones repair other drones of mine? Thought they didn't.


In simple terms, you can use a repair drone to repair any object which you can lock as a target (assuming that object can be repaired at all).

Since you cannot lock your own ship as a target (I've tested this, I cannot lock the ship I am in as a target), you cannot repair your own ship with your own repair drone (you must target an object before you can repair it). You can lock the drones you own as targets, therefore you can repair them with a repair drone. I've repaired my own combat drones with a repair drone many times this way. You also cannot make a repair drone repair itself, it can only repair objects that are: 1. not your ship, 2. not itself, and 3. are able to be repaired.

If you were flying in a fleet with another player, or multi-boxing alts, you can target each other, therefore you can use repair drones on each other, but even in that situation you still cannot use your repair drones to repair your ship because you cannot lock your own ship as a target.

Quote:
I kinda decided to use turrets over drones mostly replacing drones if I mess up is a pain.


That's fine, do what works for you. There is no "one way" to do anything in this game, unless the game mechanics themselves only allow something to be done in one specific way.
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2016-03-28 10:00:57 UTC
Wombat65Au Egdald wrote:


Target painters are used to help missiles do more damage. Painters do not help other weapons, only missiles.

This is just flat incorrect. Target painters increase signature radius. If you understood gunnery you would know how important signature radius is to tracking. Target painters do help turrets.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2016-03-28 10:47:23 UTC
Ligraph wrote:

I would fly a T3 Cruiser if I could, believe me. And I plan to eventually. But I'm looking at trim to skill into and cost, and with that BSs are better than T3s atm. Although a bit more vulnerable.

Training into large ships and weapons take a significant amount of time. I don't understand what "looking at trim" means. When you say BSs are better than T3 atms that leads me to the conclusion that you are just not paying attention. I'm not sure how many times I can say that bigger is not necessarily better until you really understand it.

This is not a game about gear progression.

There are two types of cruiser sleepers in the lower class hulls. Ones that like to get up close and ones that like to sit further out. They both can fly very fast. You will have a difficult time soloing them. I recommend that you make friends and run them in groups.


Ligraph wrote:

I just don't know how much tracking/sig I will need to hit something.

Going on the test server might help you to get a feel for this.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Cara Forelli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#13 - 2016-03-28 15:30:52 UTC
ergherhdfgh wrote:
Wombat65Au Egdald wrote:


Target painters are used to help missiles do more damage. Painters do not help other weapons, only missiles.

This is just flat incorrect. Target painters increase signature radius. If you understood gunnery you would know how important signature radius is to tracking. Target painters do help turrets.

Seconding that wombat has no idea what he's talking about. Some of his points are technically correct but don't really apply here so I'd be surprised if he's ever run a C3 site in a battleship. This point was flat out incorrect.

Even a well skilled maelstrom will struggle in a C3 because there are too many frigates to hit. I would avoid any large turret ship. Stick to drones or missiles. Domi or rattle is probably easiest, if you can make the tank on the domi work. Possibly a raven. I've tried a typhoon and it struggles with tank.

Basically none of the t1 BS will do C3s efficiently. People aren't picking on your skills when they say to use T3s. They're just telling you the truth about what will work best. Training into a BS for C3s will just be wasted time really (unless it's a rattle IMO).

Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli

Titan's Lament

Ligraph
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2016-03-28 20:00:22 UTC
ergherhdfgh wrote:
Ligraph wrote:

I would fly a T3 Cruiser if I could, believe me. And I plan to eventually. But I'm looking at trim to skill into and cost, and with that BSs are better than T3s atm. Although a bit more vulnerable.

Training into large ships and weapons take a significant amount of time. I don't understand what "looking at trim" means. When you say BSs are better than T3 atms that leads me to the conclusion that you are just not paying attention. I'm not sure how many times I can say that bigger is not necessarily better until you really understand it.

This is not a game about gear progression.

There are two types of cruiser sleepers in the lower class hulls. Ones that like to get up close and ones that like to sit further out. They both can fly very fast. You will have a difficult time soloing them. I recommend that you make friends and run them in groups.



"trim" was supposed to be time, as in time to train into. The reason I'm saying BSs are better than T3s for now is that in the time I am training for a t3 I could be running sites in a BS, even if its slower.
Ligraph
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2016-03-28 20:12:53 UTC
Cara Forelli wrote:
ergherhdfgh wrote:
Wombat65Au Egdald wrote:


Target painters are used to help missiles do more damage. Painters do not help other weapons, only missiles.

This is just flat incorrect. Target painters increase signature radius. If you understood gunnery you would know how important signature radius is to tracking. Target painters do help turrets.

Seconding that wombat has no idea what he's talking about. Some of his points are technically correct but don't really apply here so I'd be surprised if he's ever run a C3 site in a battleship. This point was flat out incorrect.

Even a well skilled maelstrom will struggle in a C3 because there are too many frigates to hit. I would avoid any large turret ship. Stick to drones or missiles. Domi or rattle is probably easiest, if you can make the tank on the domi work. Possibly a raven. I've tried a typhoon and it struggles with tank.

Basically none of the t1 BS will do C3s efficiently. People aren't picking on your skills when they say to use T3s. They're just telling you the truth about what will work best. Training into a BS for C3s will just be wasted time really (unless it's a rattle IMO).


Yeah, that's kinda what I thought. The BS is more to hold me over until I can skill into a Tengu than anything else. And when I have people to run the sites with, I will.

About the frigates, I'm seeing about 4200 (one has 8k) frigate ehp per site, don't you think 5 light drones would be able to take care of that as I take down everything else?

Or, if I need to, I can kill everything but the frigates, refit a TP or two and lose a little tank, the MJD out and snipe. I'll be carrying a depot so refitting is an option.

Another option is to fit tracking mods, TP, and web, and no MJD. Need to test on SiSi once I get the skills.

The reason I went with guns over missiles is because I kinda need the repper bonus to get enough tank, and as far as I know there isn't a missile ship with that repper bonus?

And I'm currently using missiles and having trouble hitting stuff for much damage. So I wanted to try MJD+snipe.
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#16 - 2016-03-28 20:14:53 UTC
Usually BCs are considered the t1 ship to fly while "waiting for t3 ship skills to train. Or the SOE ships, the stratios for example.

The problem with training BS is you are training away from your goal. BS turret skills don't help you at all flying a t3 cruiser. Cruisers use medium turrets, BS use Large. So you're "wasting" your training time by planning to go BS then come back down to t3 cruiser.

Also, t3 cruisers are expensive, try flying in a stratios or something first, they are cheaper and pretty good at most combat sites. You also don't lose sp from dying.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.

Ligraph
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2016-03-28 20:24:51 UTC
Iria Ahrens wrote:
Usually BCs are considered the t1 ship to fly while "waiting for t3 ship skills to train. Or the SOE ships, the stratios for example.

The problem with training BS is you are training away from your goal. BS turret skills don't help you at all flying a t3 cruiser. Cruisers use medium turrets, BS use Large. So you're "wasting" your training time by planning to go BS then come back down to t3 cruiser.

Also, t3 cruisers are expensive, try flying in a stratios or something first, they are cheaper and pretty good at most combat sites. You also don't lose sp from dying.


Do you have a Stratios fit that can do c3s (or c2s for that matter)? I tried to make one a while back and had trouble with the tank. But it would definitely be an option.

I was also having trouble getting a BC that can do c3s. I have a Myrm fit that can do c2s, is there a Minmatar BC that can do the same? Had trouble fitting one.

That's a good point about the skilling though. I probably will use the skills for a Mach eventually (for PvP, not WHs), or maybe a Vargur for c4/5s.

T3 cruisers are a ways down the list of things I need to train atm though, so its not too much of an issue to train a little into a BS.
Cara Forelli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#18 - 2016-03-28 20:50:20 UTC
Ligraph wrote:
About the frigates, I'm seeing about 4200 (one has 8k) frigate ehp per site, don't you think 5 light drones would be able to take care of that as I take down everything else?

Not necessarily. The tankier frigates have very high resists and many of the sites have remote reps that you cannot kill without triggering the next wave. So you need to be able to apply some minimum dps to even break them. It might be doable with a flight of lights, but definitely slow and tedious.

I'd be surprised if any of the BC could handle C3s. Possibly a super tanked Drake or Myrm, but it would not be very efficient.

Scorpion navy issue is another missile ship with a tank bonus. It'll cost you as much as a T3 though.

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Titan's Lament

ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2016-03-28 21:03:13 UTC
Ligraph wrote:

"trim" was supposed to be time, as in time to train into. The reason I'm saying BSs are better than T3s for now is that in the time I am training for a t3 I could be running sites in a BS, even if its slower.

Being able to sit in a BS and being at a point where you should be flying one are two different things. Getting into a BS when you barely have the skills to sit in one is a bad idea IMHO.

Large ships and weapons skills are a long train. Not only do you have to train your racial BS skill up but then you have to skill up your racial high slot large weapon and in some cases the alternate highslot weapon system ( since several ships have both turret and launcher hardpoints ) and on top of that you might wind up having to train deeper into the drone skills and with some ships that might mean both large and sentry drones.

I think if you take a step back and look at things you will realize that trying to rush into a Battleship is going to be a much longer training time. Plus you ( in my opinion ) are spreading yourself too thin and will be able to sit in a whole bunch of ships but not fly any of them well.

I often recommend that newer players stay in small and medium ships for a good long time before they even think of large. Get your generic support skills trained up pretty well before you even think of a BS.

Cruiser 5 probably unlocks more options for you than any other ship skill in the game. Training Cruiser 5 is not that long. Further getting T2 medium weapons will be a lot shorter than T2 large. What I am again trying to point out here is that the time you are figuring to fly a BS is not very realistic.

Eve is not WoW. This is not a game about gear or ship progression. Bigger is not better. Stop thinking that BSs are "better" stop trying to rush into BSs. Look at what you want to do and try to set realistic goals.

What I foresee happening if you try to run lower level wormhole sites solo in a BS is getting pinned down by a much smaller and faster PvP opponent that you could not warp out of the site in time to avoid even though you saw them on D scan because your fat ass BS takes forever to warp. Then he will get under your guns and you won't be able to scratch him as he slow nicks away at your ship until you blow up.

Taking longer in a wormhole site does a lot more than just add time to complete the site. It lengthens your exposure time in the site. Further you will run the sites so slow ( if you can even complete them ) that I have a hard time believing that your Maelstrom will pay for it's self before you loose it.

There is the very real possibility that there will be sleeper rats that you just can not kill in the BS. Even webbed the small and fast ones might be able to get under your guns and the ones that like to sit a little further out will likely be just out of reach of ACs and just close enough that your Atty can't scratch it.

Incursion rats are essentially sleepers. Incursion runners do use BSs to run incursions but they don't have to worry about local reps so all the mods that you have for cap life and fitting they can use for tracking. Also they have remote tracking boosts from logi as well. Without all that tracking help even characters with 100 million skill points can't hit incursion rats well at all.

Your fit has no tracking help from anything. I think you are looking at paper dps and not understanding that a sig / speed tank can literally avoid all of your turret damage. Meaning that everything that you throw at them will miss. I've been there in a Maelstrom in a C2, where my guns just could not hit anything. If you are planning on just sitting there and letting your drones do the work since your turrets will be nearly useless then you might as well be flying a drone boat so at least your drone damage is bonused. Also you had better have a plan for keeping aggro off of your drones or they won't be able to stay on target long enough to kill anything either.

However the last time that I tried running wormhole sites in a Maelstrom MJDs did not exist. I am will to consider the possiblity that you could maybe make it work. However my guess for now is that you won't like the results. Also just because I could not do something does not mean no one else can.

Again however if I were you I'd try it on SiSi first.

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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2016-03-28 21:21:10 UTC
Ligraph wrote:


Or, if I need to, I can kill everything but the frigates, refit a TP or two and lose a little tank, the MJD out and snipe. I'll be carrying a depot so refitting is an option.

Keep in mind if CCP has not already they are talking about adding a combat timer to refitting. I think it's only like a minute with weapons off before you can refit but still that is a minute each time and if you are switching back and forth for each wave that could be significant.
Ligraph wrote:

Another option is to fit tracking mods, TP, and web, and no MJD. Need to test on SiSi once I get the skills.

You can have a different training plan on SiSi than you have on TQ. You won't get those skills on TQ obviously but at least you can try something different.

Ligraph wrote:

The reason I went with guns over missiles is because I kinda need the repper bonus to get enough tank, and as far as I know there isn't a missile ship with that repper bonus?

repairing is only part of your tank. Speaking purely from an HP stand point there are 3 aspects to your tank. You have totally HP. Rep amount and then resists. In many situations you are much better off resisting the damage in the first place than trying to repair it after the fact.

Ships with resist bonuses can have incredible tanks. Resists benefit buffer and incoming remote reps as well as local reps. Rep amount bonus only helps local reps. Also you can't compare tank numbers that you see in EFT from a medium ship to a large since the medium can use speed to mitigate a decent amount of the damage.

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