EVE General Discussion

The problem with the 'IWIs ISk is the only reason this war is happening' narrative is it ignores the part where goons spent the best part of six years making people hate them enough to want to dogpile them if the chance arose. Take that away and what have you got? A bunch of mercs with no motivation beyond getting paid who stick rigidly to the contract then go home once its done, whereas what we have now is a group thats been motivated enough to blast through six whole regions of sov lasers and node fights and still has the will to make sure goons are ended before we declare things done.

Taking LSV as an example, we had every reason to come and help kick the imperiums ass even before IWI offered us a share of the money. Most of LSV had been fightng the Imperium for almost a month before the IWI thing even broke so their Isk literally means nothing to us, IWI could give up tomorrow and we'd still be out there fleeting up killing goons and burning their stuff.

This war in its most basic form is the imperium in general, and goons in particular, reaping what they've spent years sowing.

Except if it wasn't to do with the ISK, there's no reason it wouldn't have already happened. You're seriously trying to suggest that people just so happened to get riled up enough to have this war just at the same time IWI started paying people just by sheer coincidence?

Sister MaryElephant, go back to reddit or at the very least learn to troll a little better.

Seems to me the stagnation has gone on to long.

Chars wanted to take a massive hit at the imperium and the IWI funding put more chars into the mix.

Even though Goons are dropping outposts and systems like wildfire (called retreating) they are still mixing it up. However you can always tell who your friends are by the mass evac of corps dropping and running away from the imperiums fight.

I do find it interesting that this was seen happening at the start of the year with trickles of PH and Pl etc testing the water on assaults in Fade yet people just overlooked it.

End of the day you have had it good and the wealth has poured in. But when you have to defend it its just a big failscade.

I agree, SMA has't totally failscaded, yet.

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/SpaceMonkey's_Alliance

But you just took a huge hit with the departure of Lisnave.

Sorry, but would you sing the same tune if IWI was supporting goons? Would you agree with the defenders that it is unfair and the goons should stop? Goon lost BEFORE IWI joint the war against the low sec Corps.
In the end: live with it. Goon may go down or not, I don't know. The real question is if they can go down with style. Just stop whining that it's all so unfair. Docking up doesn't count as style IMHO. I think that's what you would have told the everyone if IWI had supported goon and goon was winning.

We've taken a lot of hits, we'll press on though.

Losing stuff in an of itself is not a failscade. A failscade is when negative actions trigger further negative actions and the ultimate loss of the alliance. At this point all of the alliances hit are working to survive rather than collapsing.

Sure I would, I had that opinion long before they were against goons while they were neutral and the same about all casinos that have existed including the goons one. It's their entire concept of the third party applications I disagree with, not their specific actions. The actions in this war have only convinced me even more that I was right to disagree with them in the first place.

Heh, winning again!

Yeah, I'm in favor of getting rid of anything that gives and advantage to varying degrees of benefit and availability. Something like voice comms or killboards I'm not going to argue too much with CCP about keeping, things like IWI i definitely will, and if CCP ever said "bots are fine" I'd quit before I accepted that decision.

But that's not what it translates to, and I've said nothing to suggest it is. Your own preconceptions might make you read it that way but it's not. Like I said above, it's mainly down to two major factors for me, the degree of benefit gained and the availability of that benefit to the playerbase. Killboards for example I would consider to give a low benefit, as they only help make decisions, and they are open to all players, so they have a wide availability.

3rd party voice comms again are wide availability, and I'd say moderate to low benefit, as they only give a small improvement over in game voice comms in terms of coordination. Bots I would say are high benefit medium availability, since they are relatively easy to obtain and use if you have the knowledge and provide income far exceeding a normal player. IWI I would say is high benefit and low availability, since the isk gained is incredibly high, which the availability is pretty much limited to players who can write it themselves.

A third factor I also consider but in a lesser way is potential for abuse. IWI can be used to mask RMT which makes it pretty risky to allow.

There's also the problem of enforcement. Some applications like excel spreadsheets would be impossible for CCP to prevent the use of, so there has to be a reasonable expectation that CCP could actually prevent an applications use.

Note I said "similar effect", not "similar method". The effect is very much similar.

But I'm not. As I've explained in depth above and in passing multiple times when you've thrown the same argument at me, I simply have priorities. not to mention that I've specifically stated two applications I believe should be removed rather quick, one is IWI, the other is eve-o preview, an application I use on a daily basis. It's not my fault if you aren't reading posts.

Well IWI definitely has enough isk to keep this going until all Goon Sov is lost. It seems with about 10 or so systems changing hands daily and 60ish systems left Goons will have no Sov in less than a week or two at that rate. Then the question is this: After the largest and most powerful mega alliance is wiped off the face of nullsec, what happens next?

Will IWI just go back to playing games and having a good time, or will they try something else? I guess we will all know the outcome, but with so much power IWI seems capable of doing almost anything. Here's the rub, Joe has power and can influence others. He may chose to use that power and influence in many different ways, and if he does how exactly are other people going to combat that?

The other side to this, which has nothing to do with IWI, is that now after seeing how to destroy a mega alliance and take over their space pretty quick, what's to stop others from doing so elsewhere? Systems can now change hands relatively quick now. Which is why I wonder if the days of Grrrr mega-alliance are coming to an end.

/sigh. Out of game apps are required to remain competitive for literally any major alliance in EVE. Don't you ever wonder why literally every person on these forums disagrees with you? Everyone else must be wrong, not you, right?

One more time Lukey. If out of game apps shouldn't be required to be competitive, then logically you will want to ban the slew of out of game apps that every single major alliance in the game uses to remain competitive.

Lucas "I am un-creative and don't know what a sandbox means" Kell, everyone

Yes thats exactly what I'm saying, the only thing that had to happen was that the Imperium needed to show weakness, which they did when the viceroy program failed and again when LSV kicked them out of lowsec entirely. Look I dont doubt IWIs contributions have helped bring in a bunch of people who might otherwise have sat out the war but as soon as the blood hit the water something like this was going to happen, it was just a matter of when and how big.