EVE General Discussion

From the "Nerf diplomacy lol" guy, no less.

Ladies and gentlemen, we have come full circle. Or is it 180 degrees? I am confused.

It was hyperbole, yes. But not far off. I remember sitting in P-2 while FCs spammed the chat channels in frustration trying to get numbers for fleets. I remember fleets being cancelled for lack of numbers.

Lucas, you are clearly very committed to SMA and for that, I commend you. That is sincere. I hope, for your sake and for others like you, that it survives and that you guys can rebuild into something stronger.

I wish you'd stop demonizing those who left, though. It doesn't reflect well on you.

Yep, fleets aren't always possible, depending on a number of factors - time, location, fleet composition, enemy fleet size, to name a few.

Thanks, I hope we do too.

I don't demonize them and I wish them all the best, but that won't change my opinion that if you are leaving when a war turns and you suffer losses, that's very much a non-EVE player thing. That's not just leadership, that's literally any player. If you quit because the going gets tough then you really don't get EVE.

You're right, we've totally not been undocking at all... We've totally been losing our ships inside stations which is why our losses aren't zero.

You say it's a certainty that you don't need IWI income, but then you claim that your losses are low because you're fighting unopposed. That leads me to believe you think that for the remainder of this war you will fight unopposed. Good luck with that.

Not really sure where those figures are from. I mean let's for simplicity just take the highball figure of 40b from Tribute as caused by Imperium and pretend all Imperium damage bars are the same height so I'm massively overstating the Imperium damage done for a moment. So across 10 regions their massively inflated march damage would be 400b. The coalition against the Imperium is pretty much "the rest of EVE". So since zkillboard shows most kills and things that on an alliance level Goonswarm alone did 3.36t damage in march, where and against whom did Goonswarm do the other 2.96t of damage? I imagine that these stats aren't so much March figures as "part of March" figures, and they were likely sourced by someone within MBC. Though if it's accurate it amuses me that I personally made more than we lost in fade in March.

TBH though, I won't even dispute the idea that we've lost more than we've killed, it would surprise me at this point if that weren't the case, but I find it funny that you think nothing will change or that it means anything in itself. MoA have spent the past 2 years chirping on about how isk positive they are too.

Those figures were from CCP's data dump: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6428000

Lots of redditors have made a variety of graphs in this thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/4dty65/ccp_quant_releases_treasure_trove_of_kill_data/

Some of the others I particularly liked:

http://i.imgur.com/dgxGSod
http://imgur.com/xfJdqLW

It's CCP's own data dump. I'd guess pretty accurate.

No idea on the groupings people are using, I just picked the ones that I felt illustrated interesting things - feel free to make your own graphs from it, I'm sure that's why CCP published the data.

I haven't started breaking it down in my own spreadsheets yet, I want to do cumulative losses of MBC vs CFC over time - although from what I've read there's an issue with splitting the CO2 data correctly for that.

:CCP:

Well no, it's simply that when you aren't at war you can protect more space that when you are. With the new mechanics there's no commitment needed to assault each area so players are able to assault huge amounts of space in one go, meaning that when at war a defender needs to shrink. Once the war is over they can grow back out again. Sov is a lot more fluid now, and yes there's certainly a learning process for just how fluid it is, but we'll find the balance.

What N3 realised is they were incapable of defending their renters and had no interest in integrating them. The fact that renting still exists and rusblock are spread to 13 players per system shows that the concept is not gone.

You're completely insane if you think no super-bloc will exist afterwards. For starters, even if we do lose the war (which is in no way already decided like some of you seem to believe) the Imperium won't be gone. Even if we end up entirely in lowsec for a bit, the bulk of the Imperium will remain and will push back out eventually, so either BoB will have to remain a loose coalition anyway or the Imperium will reclaim their space. Outside of that there's already other super-blocs and have been others in the past so I'm not really sure why you think that basic human behaviour will change.

We never would have anyway, since we already downsized for fozziesov. Take 5 minutes of your life to stop reading reddit propaganda and look these things up for yourself and you'll see what already threw away loads of space to compact down our borders. I imagine if we win the war, our characters:system ratio will return to roughly what it was pre-war, we'll just have a better idea of what space will be scrapped in the event of a large scale war.

You overestimate how much those "dependent" alliances depend on the Imperium, and how important ratting is to be honest. Personally I don't rat so I'm now making more since we've been at war as I build and trade a lot of the goods both sides are using. Amusingly it seems that 1ronbank may have just made one of my alt corps stinkin rich for when I get home as well.

Except they're not, just their methods of defense are different. If anything it's now more important to have more players for defense, as you have to keep ADMs up as well as fight the front lines. This is why I'm convinced you are playing a completely different game. Smaller alliances are dead the moment a larger alliance or coalition chooses to kill them. Their continued existence is at the whim of the larger alliances around them.