These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Upcoming Feature and Change Feedback Center

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Citadel] Tweak to Black Ops jump fatigue bonus

First post First post
Author
Lugh Crow-Slave
#121 - 2016-04-21 23:55:33 UTC
Vailen Sere wrote:
Chance Ravinne wrote:
I'm sure this will make a lot of Black Ops pilots happy even if they're among the least impeded jump capable ships as-is.

Not sure why so many want covops on a black ops ship. I mean it would be cool, but also potentially ridiculously broken. If you really must feel sneaky in a blops, why not ask for d-scan immunity?


This would make more sense..


this would be the same level of broken if not more... no defiantly more broken


blops are fine as is
Lugh Crow-Slave
#122 - 2016-04-24 14:34:44 UTC
So one of the main strategic targets of blops will be removed in the summer bring them to a point where they are not useful for much more than a quick meaningless brawl. Thanks ccp
Olmeca Gold
The Free Folk
#123 - 2016-04-25 15:07:33 UTC
Are we still getting this change with the citadel patch? Couldnt find it in the patch notes.

Covert Cloaky FC. Sustainable Whaler.

Youtube channel.

Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#124 - 2016-04-25 22:33:48 UTC
It in the patch note i read.

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.

Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#125 - 2016-04-26 20:59:36 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
So one of the main strategic targets of blops will be removed in the summer bring them to a point where they are not useful for much more than a quick meaningless brawl. Thanks ccp

Can you elaborate?

I'm my own NPC alt.

Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#126 - 2016-04-26 21:13:20 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
So one of the main strategic targets of blops will be removed in the summer bring them to a point where they are not useful for much more than a quick meaningless brawl. Thanks ccp

Can you elaborate?

Ratting carriers?
Lugh Crow-Slave
#127 - 2016-04-27 06:38:29 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Tipa Riot wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
So one of the main strategic targets of blops will be removed in the summer bring them to a point where they are not useful for much more than a quick meaningless brawl. Thanks ccp

Can you elaborate?

Ratting carriers?


At least us during wars we would use them to hit miners or at least scare them back to hs with the new Rorqual you won't be able to do this any more. Sure you can hit the odd miner from a random corp. But using it to disrupt enemy industry is going to be a no go of you're not a big group
Zich Masor
Deadspace Unlimited
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#128 - 2016-04-28 13:00:43 UTC
Okay so the pros to this so far:



-Blops are now as manoeuvrable and rapid at deploying as they should be, they can out travel larger ships and Jumpbridge networks, which makes sense for them being clandestine ships that prey on the weak.

-Blops pilots who like to wait out their blue timer (such as myself) now have much less time to wait and this has aided in planning jump paths and travel times.

-New 'tripple' jumps are now possible along we emergency exit jumps, both open up new options to highly experienced pilots


Cons~

-My main concern for the future of blops is that 'some' future ideas for them revolve around using them to disrupt services and sov
(I will state now that i vehemently oppose this due to the current amazing tactics and changes to battle you can make with just one experienced blops)

-As Time goes on and more smaller and more resilient ships are deployed its becoming more obvious that blops (with exception to the SIn) lack a great deal of capability of engaging on battles that are more than a few seconds long (excluding one or two ultra-exceptional cases). The main reference im making here is Carriers.....Since the change no blops can actually stand up to a carriers fighters, now whilst it is true that you can jam a carrier.....Trying to find more than 30 people to jam, neut and DPS ONE person in a carrier and still getting slaughtered is a bit ridiculous. Theres no good reason why carriers should still be a a great ratting boat, whilst also being able to fend off all but the largest of groups.



-Potential changes to blops to help counter new emergent ships

- (MODULE) Wave-Form Destabiliser (Neuting/Damage/ECM varients)

A fittable module that turns the 'shockwave' produced on jumping in into a hostile action, this module upon completing a successful jump will drain the capacitor from nearby ships, npcs and drones in an attempt to Super-re-charge its capacitor. Other blackops ships fitted with this module are immune to this effect.

The idea of this is to focus on blops advantage of short and controlled fights, without making them over-powered in normal combat situations.

so for instance, a well placed covert cyno and a group of say 5 blops bbattleships, could severly damage several squadrons of fighters, making it easier for the blops to actually fight carriers and even the playing ground a little.


-Potential change to blops on the front of 'SOV'


~not sure about this yet, but im brainstorming ideas












Hemmo Paskiainen
#129 - 2016-05-12 13:44:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Hemmo Paskiainen
CCP Fozzie wrote:


This is obviously not the only change that we could make to Black Ops, and we obviously aren't treating it as a complete re-balance of the class.

Let us know what you think about this Black Ops change in this thread. Thanks!


Maybe this is not the right topic for my thoughts, or maybe it is. My english isnt that great ether, but my idea's are still quit solid.

This is a awesome change! However the entire class it selve, is still at a point where the hull itselve + slot layout + standard power/CPU spec's is too versatile, while nerfing them on power and/or CPU spec's at the same time. Whitch translates directly in the fitting options and thereby limiting the entire sandbox black op reconnaissance/stealth idea/abilities. Which translates in the meh state they are currently in.
In my opinion, the OP' factor should be controled by role, and not by fitting spec's. Like with the T3's. It is the only way the can shine, without being broken OP. It should shine in their specific fitted niches only, which should be versitile.

Perhaps by aplying class separation (as with the recons), and/or modulair fitting abilities/restrictions (as with the T3's) and maybe changing the hull class to cruiser + , rebalance the manufacturing cost (to 2-3B), and redefine a certain sets of niche roles to redesign them on (drop, hunt, plex, anti-cap, logistic chaining ect) a lot of improvement would perhaps take place.

If relativity equals time plus momentum, what equals relativity, if the momentum is minus to the time?

Lugh Crow-Slave
#130 - 2016-05-15 07:29:48 UTC
the different blops already fill very different niche roles m8 you don't use a redeemer for a sins job
Khan Wrenth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#131 - 2016-05-15 16:02:34 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
the different blops already fill very different niche roles m8 you don't use a redeemer for a sins job

I'm curious now. Other than the Widow, I thought BLOPS had the same role of "get behind enemy lines, apply DPS, get out"?
Lugh Crow-Slave
#132 - 2016-05-16 02:04:41 UTC
Khan Wrenth wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
the different blops already fill very different niche roles m8 you don't use a redeemer for a sins job

I'm curious now. Other than the Widow, I thought BLOPS had the same role of "get behind enemy lines, apply DPS, get out"?


that is the role of all blops but it is not their individual role in a fleet

each one handles a fight differently and each one is better suited to deal with things better

like if the enemy fleet is a bunch of small ships the sin shines here

do they have a lot of DPS? then the redeemer handles that the best

want to take on a cruiser fleet widow is your man

alpha and GTFO from range? go panther


while these are not the only niches they fill and there is also areas of overlap once you get to know the ships you will find they all have plenty of advantages and disadvantages that make each one a viable ship depending on what the fleet needs. BLOPS are probably the only ship class in the game where there is no clear winner or useless black sheep. CCP did a great job with the balance of these ships both within their class and in their role within the game itself. Could there be a few tweaks? sure nothing is perfect maybe a bit of cpu here a few extra m3 in a drone bay there but nothing that warrants a balance of the class as a hole or anything that is worth the risk of CCP going in and breaking something.
Guillame Herschel
Buffalo Soldiers
#133 - 2016-06-20 16:56:44 UTC
Reagalan wrote:
Jump Fatigue is dumb.

It really is. There is nothing else like it in the entire corpus of space exploration sci-fi. That certain ships have features that ameliorate its effects makes even less sense. Just make the rest of your empire's jump-drive capable ships using the same technology. It's not like a Titan has space constraints.
Gauis Aldent
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#134 - 2016-06-23 13:06:06 UTC
Guillame Herschel wrote:
Reagalan wrote:
Jump Fatigue is dumb.

It really is. There is nothing else like it in the entire corpus of space exploration sci-fi. That certain ships have features that ameliorate its effects makes even less sense. Just make the rest of your empire's jump-drive capable ships using the same technology. It's not like a Titan has space constraints.


I spent a few minutes trying to show how easy this is to patch over but, tbh you are right on these points.

However there is a second issue, wasn't capital power projection nerfed for good reason? How else do you accomplish it?

Just a thought here... what if you give the jump drive itself on the ship hp and heat. Each jump damages the drive and heats it.

Letting the drive cool down prevents damage multipliers. Then have repair rate curves, heat damage multipliers, and damage thresholds to balance on. Why do big titans have worst cooldown times? All that damned high tech shielding on the drives that is why, you should see the spec sheets those pencil pushers come up with....****, that lore practically writes itself.

The "workaround" then is to switch hulls and jump again, but, I am skeptical that ends up being so broken.
Persephone IX
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#135 - 2016-07-10 18:00:57 UTC
Widow's Blackops bonus needs to change. Redeemer doesn't earn its bonus from the Geddon, rather from the "old" Geddon which was a turret boat. Give it a missile explosion radius. DPS wise, a shield widow can dish out 1k dps. It will still be the weakest of the 4 and the only pure shield tank, making it more susceptible to nrg war. For fleet ops, usually 4 mids go for tank, rest is for dual prop , point and cap. Commit 5 for tank and you are on par with the others, before slaves.

CCP, Can I Haz My Stuff?