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Buff the mining barg
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Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#61 - 2011-12-20 12:35:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Tanya Powers
Liang Nuren wrote:
Frankly I think they should remove mining barges from the game entirely. Mining is one of the worst examples of gameplay that I've seen in any game. And while they're at it, fix the S&I and POS UIs.

-Liang



Not only it's the easiest activity for bots just after moon goo Lol but has it stand it's completely worthless. The single stuff that can make you win some isk a while ago was pyroxeres and ice has long has you had at least lvl4 processing skills, even then missioning gives you a lot more.

So either make this stupid activity something worthwhile for those actually playing the game, and so even more for bot users, or take it out of the game.
The one pretending he's making isk while being ganked because he's a good boy and wants gankers to kill bots is just another pawn talking to himself. (yeah saw a post a week ago couldn't imagine there are so many disturbed people)

FW improvements should make this become interesting and even make me go test, just do it CCP?

Ho and the Hybrids (?) rebalance supposed to be delivered with the expansion? Lol

Get rid of alloys in drone regions and replace those for something making those players not loose all will of playing this game?

Change mining mechanics and make this activity interesting? -faster cycles, bigger cargo, align gtfo improved to extreme
If mining becomes something more dynamic then for sure bots will be a lot more easily spoted and ganked by miners them selves.

Before they get to mining there's so many stuff waiting now for years to be changed.
They did a lot of stuff lately, 4 weeks and did more than in over 3 years witch is the proof they can do serious business if they want.
Drew Solaert
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#62 - 2011-12-20 13:27:09 UTC
Yield or Survivability. Pick one.

This is the way it should be.

I lied :o
Argaral
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#63 - 2011-12-21 02:09:03 UTC
Jojo Jackson wrote:
Lady Spank wrote:
mining barges are cheap hunks of scrap metal supporting a ore processing machine, how much tank do you think they should have?

As much as a standart T1 cruiser like Arbitrator or Vexor.

They are medium hulls which need medium rigs and aren't able to fit medium rep/booster or plates/shields ??? Bad joke !!

Common fits for Arbitrator or Vexor include largh shield extender AND all the stuff they need to fight. Even a Hulk ... TECH 2 MULTI MILLION DOLLER SHIP ... can't fit a MEDIUM extender without problems (fitting mods)!
3*Stripe miner + 1 MEDIUM T2 shield extender == NOT POSIBLE without fitting mods.

I realy want to see your tears when you can't fit even a MEDIUM extender on your shiny pew pew TECH TWO cruiser !

Plain and simple FAIL BALANCE!


You're an idiot......

Civilian ships =/= military ships. Stop afk mining and use your brains, otherwise, mine in a Rohk. Unarmed, unarmoured civilian vessel. Also, you can fit the ship with tank, you clearly need to stop going for tech 2 gear(I'm not saying get faction either).
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#64 - 2011-12-21 18:41:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarunik Raqalth'Qui
Korg Tronix wrote:
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui wrote:
For all the banter back and forth on this...the underlying issue is that the Hulk is supposed to be the go-to ship for mining in HOSTILE space. It has the resists to do so. The problem is that any attempt to fit more than insignificant amounts of buffer to the thing to survive attempts at ganking (as opposed to the active tank usually used to deal with rats) runs head-on into powergrid problems that are so extreme only a MAPC can fix them.

To wit:
I own an AB Wolf with a 400mm plate + 2 projectile rigs + 150mm ACs and no powergrid mods. The Hulk, which uses MEDIUM rigs and has roughly 3x the mass of a Drake (Hulk mass = 40mil KG, Drake mass = ~14mil KG), needs a MAPC to be able to fit a MSE along with its strip miners. Does this smell to you? It sure does to me.

30k EHP of buffer is not too much for something that basically IS cruiser-sized. Most T2 cruisers have no trouble reaching the 30k mark even without a resist bonus as extreme as the Hulk's 7.5%/level, and those that do get a resist bonus (Sacrilege, I'm looking at you :-) come close to that mark "out-of-the-box".

TL;DR: Just give the Hulk about 15MW extra output from its reactor, so that buffer tanked Hulks would go from "theorycrafting curiosity" to "something people actually might use".


You do know you can already reach 30k ehp on a Hulk? Right?

Even with all the 'fitting' issues.

Yes, but you need a MAPC to do so, which is quite smelly on a cruiser-sized ship IMO, and puts the fit into "theorycrafting curiosity" land for the vast majority of the population. Which is exactly why I suggested the PG buff, so that the MSE+resistmods fit would become something practical!
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#65 - 2011-12-21 18:44:41 UTC
Argaral wrote:
Jojo Jackson wrote:
Lady Spank wrote:
mining barges are cheap hunks of scrap metal supporting a ore processing machine, how much tank do you think they should have?

As much as a standart T1 cruiser like Arbitrator or Vexor.

They are medium hulls which need medium rigs and aren't able to fit medium rep/booster or plates/shields ??? Bad joke !!

Common fits for Arbitrator or Vexor include largh shield extender AND all the stuff they need to fight. Even a Hulk ... TECH 2 MULTI MILLION DOLLER SHIP ... can't fit a MEDIUM extender without problems (fitting mods)!
3*Stripe miner + 1 MEDIUM T2 shield extender == NOT POSIBLE without fitting mods.

I realy want to see your tears when you can't fit even a MEDIUM extender on your shiny pew pew TECH TWO cruiser !

Plain and simple FAIL BALANCE!


You're an idiot......

Civilian ships =/= military ships. Stop afk mining and use your brains, otherwise, mine in a Rohk. Unarmed, unarmoured civilian vessel. Also, you can fit the ship with tank, you clearly need to stop going for tech 2 gear(I'm not saying get faction either).


Unarmed? Go fly a frig up against a Hulk pilot who actually has good drone skills (and half a brain). Like I said, the Hulk was meant to mine in HOSTILE SPACE. Get it?
Korg Tronix
Mole Station Nursery
#66 - 2011-12-21 18:45:46 UTC
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui wrote:
Korg Tronix wrote:
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui wrote:
For all the banter back and forth on this...the underlying issue is that the Hulk is supposed to be the go-to ship for mining in HOSTILE space. It has the resists to do so. The problem is that any attempt to fit more than insignificant amounts of buffer to the thing to survive attempts at ganking (as opposed to the active tank usually used to deal with rats) runs head-on into powergrid problems that are so extreme only a MAPC can fix them.

To wit:
I own an AB Wolf with a 400mm plate + 2 projectile rigs + 150mm ACs and no powergrid mods. The Hulk, which uses MEDIUM rigs and has roughly 3x the mass of a Drake (Hulk mass = 40mil KG, Drake mass = ~14mil KG), needs a MAPC to be able to fit a MSE along with its strip miners. Does this smell to you? It sure does to me.

30k EHP of buffer is not too much for something that basically IS cruiser-sized. Most T2 cruisers have no trouble reaching the 30k mark even without a resist bonus as extreme as the Hulk's 7.5%/level, and those that do get a resist bonus (Sacrilege, I'm looking at you :-) come close to that mark "out-of-the-box".

TL;DR: Just give the Hulk about 15MW extra output from its reactor, so that buffer tanked Hulks would go from "theorycrafting curiosity" to "something people actually might use".


You do know you can already reach 30k ehp on a Hulk? Right?

Even with all the 'fitting' issues.

Yes, but you need a MAPC to do so, which is quite smelly on a cruiser-sized ship IMO, and puts the fit into "theorycrafting curiosity" land for the vast majority of the population. Which is exactly why I suggested the PG buff, so that the MSE+resistmods fit would become something practical!


Its practical now, you just have to make a choice between tanking your hulk and losing out on a little yield or going max yield and having a fairly low buffer

Evil: If I were creating the world I wouldn't mess about with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers, eight o'clock, Day One! [zaps one of his minions accidentally, minion screams]
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#67 - 2011-12-21 18:56:05 UTC
Korg Tronix wrote:
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui wrote:
Korg Tronix wrote:
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui wrote:
For all the banter back and forth on this...the underlying issue is that the Hulk is supposed to be the go-to ship for mining in HOSTILE space. It has the resists to do so. The problem is that any attempt to fit more than insignificant amounts of buffer to the thing to survive attempts at ganking (as opposed to the active tank usually used to deal with rats) runs head-on into powergrid problems that are so extreme only a MAPC can fix them.

To wit:
I own an AB Wolf with a 400mm plate + 2 projectile rigs + 150mm ACs and no powergrid mods. The Hulk, which uses MEDIUM rigs and has roughly 3x the mass of a Drake (Hulk mass = 40mil KG, Drake mass = ~14mil KG), needs a MAPC to be able to fit a MSE along with its strip miners. Does this smell to you? It sure does to me.

30k EHP of buffer is not too much for something that basically IS cruiser-sized. Most T2 cruisers have no trouble reaching the 30k mark even without a resist bonus as extreme as the Hulk's 7.5%/level, and those that do get a resist bonus (Sacrilege, I'm looking at you :-) come close to that mark "out-of-the-box".

TL;DR: Just give the Hulk about 15MW extra output from its reactor, so that buffer tanked Hulks would go from "theorycrafting curiosity" to "something people actually might use".


You do know you can already reach 30k ehp on a Hulk? Right?

Even with all the 'fitting' issues.

Yes, but you need a MAPC to do so, which is quite smelly on a cruiser-sized ship IMO, and puts the fit into "theorycrafting curiosity" land for the vast majority of the population. Which is exactly why I suggested the PG buff, so that the MSE+resistmods fit would become something practical!


Its practical now, you just have to make a choice between tanking your hulk and losing out on a little yield or going max yield and having a fairly low buffer

What I'm saying by "theorycrafting curiosity" is that 99% of pilots won't even consider putting a MAPC on a cruiser-sized ship, not "waa I lost a little yield".
Korg Tronix
Mole Station Nursery
#68 - 2011-12-21 18:58:49 UTC
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui wrote:
Korg Tronix wrote:
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui wrote:
Korg Tronix wrote:
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui wrote:
For all the banter back and forth on this...the underlying issue is that the Hulk is supposed to be the go-to ship for mining in HOSTILE space. It has the resists to do so. The problem is that any attempt to fit more than insignificant amounts of buffer to the thing to survive attempts at ganking (as opposed to the active tank usually used to deal with rats) runs head-on into powergrid problems that are so extreme only a MAPC can fix them.

To wit:
I own an AB Wolf with a 400mm plate + 2 projectile rigs + 150mm ACs and no powergrid mods. The Hulk, which uses MEDIUM rigs and has roughly 3x the mass of a Drake (Hulk mass = 40mil KG, Drake mass = ~14mil KG), needs a MAPC to be able to fit a MSE along with its strip miners. Does this smell to you? It sure does to me.

30k EHP of buffer is not too much for something that basically IS cruiser-sized. Most T2 cruisers have no trouble reaching the 30k mark even without a resist bonus as extreme as the Hulk's 7.5%/level, and those that do get a resist bonus (Sacrilege, I'm looking at you :-) come close to that mark "out-of-the-box".

TL;DR: Just give the Hulk about 15MW extra output from its reactor, so that buffer tanked Hulks would go from "theorycrafting curiosity" to "something people actually might use".


You do know you can already reach 30k ehp on a Hulk? Right?

Even with all the 'fitting' issues.

Yes, but you need a MAPC to do so, which is quite smelly on a cruiser-sized ship IMO, and puts the fit into "theorycrafting curiosity" land for the vast majority of the population. Which is exactly why I suggested the PG buff, so that the MSE+resistmods fit would become something practical!


Its practical now, you just have to make a choice between tanking your hulk and losing out on a little yield or going max yield and having a fairly low buffer

What I'm saying by "theorycrafting curiosity" is that 99% of pilots won't even consider putting a MAPC on a cruiser-sized ship, not "waa I lost a little yield".


Thats there own fault then they didn't accommodate for any risks and therefore they are a lot easier to gank. Its the same story for the people that don't tank their haulers then whine when they get popped whilst carrying 100s million of items.

Evil: If I were creating the world I wouldn't mess about with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers, eight o'clock, Day One! [zaps one of his minions accidentally, minion screams]
Goose99
#69 - 2011-12-21 19:06:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Goose99
Oh noez, you tanked it. Now it will take 2 Catalysts instead of 1 to gank a 200 mil hulk.Lol

You losers should listen to yourselves. You're arguing that barges can already put up a tank worth a joke. Repeat: "Barge + tank." You're embarrassing yourself.Oops

"I don't want barges to have a viable tank, because I want to gank those when hulkagaddon rolls by in half a month." See? Doesn't telling the truth make you feel better?Cool
Billionaire Carebear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#70 - 2011-12-21 19:10:04 UTC
Goose99 wrote:
"I don't want barges to have a viable tank, because I want to gank those when hulkagaddon rolls by in half a month." See? Doesn't telling the truth make you feel better?Cool


Just thought that sounded good twice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_and_spirit_of_the_law http://krypto451.deviantart.com/art/Care-Bears-Spanking-168001373 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kh0Uu1yD-v0  George Carlin "They're Just Words."
Xolve
State War Academy
Caldari State
#71 - 2011-12-21 19:15:45 UTC
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui wrote:

Unarmed? Go fly a frig up against a Hulk pilot who actually has good drone skills (and half a brain). Like I said, the Hulk was meant to mine in HOSTILE SPACE. Get it?


Gladly.. any frig pilot worth his salt will kill the drones in short order.. then kill the hulk..

Your not scaring anyone off with your single flight of T2 Light Drones lol.
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#72 - 2011-12-21 21:09:44 UTC
Xolve wrote:
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui wrote:

Unarmed? Go fly a frig up against a Hulk pilot who actually has good drone skills (and half a brain). Like I said, the Hulk was meant to mine in HOSTILE SPACE. Get it?


Gladly.. any frig pilot worth his salt will kill the drones in short order.. then kill the hulk..

Your not scaring anyone off with your single flight of T2 Light Drones lol.

Correction, a Hulk can carry two flights of lights or one of mediums, and drones ARE a threat to frigates, especially those that aren't going for max tracking on their guns...
Vihura
Vihura Cor
#73 - 2011-12-21 21:33:09 UTC
Khaiton LaSalle wrote:
Before I start, I have not searched the forums about this topic. I want to rant a bit.

Griefers and mining barges. Have the powers that be ever been given grief about how easy it is to kill mining barges?

I know that the game is suppose to have a level of risk, yadda, yadda, yadda. But can we not get a buff of the barges so that we can at least fight back a little bit?

I lost a covetor to a Thrasher in 10 seconds. I did not even get a chance to launch my drones!

So, if it has not already been beaten to death, can we all scream at CCP to buff the barges.

Thank you for your support. Blink

Just use Rokh :)
http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/25971-Mining-Rokh-FTW.html
Jimmyhatt
Contra Ratio
GameTheory
#74 - 2011-12-21 22:31:46 UTC
Hulk tanks are pretty week. They should be worth the 100's of mil they cost.. If not reduce the price and people would complain less.

It takes about 20 hours of mining to recoup the cost of a lost hulk in hi esc. So yeild vs survivability is not really an issue when the yeild isnt worth 2 ***** in high sec

It should take an = amount of isk invested in the pew pew ship to kill a hulk as quickly as they currently pop. IE you would need 200mil to instapop 200mil.. Not 5mil vs 200+mil.

Its a heard mentality.. You have a heard of 100 hulks and 5 go down to a ganker so only the 5% are pissed. On the whole its balanced but in reality hulks are too vulnerable for being a top teir mining ship. They should at least be able to with stand the insta ganks.. A sustanined attack is a whole differnt game which the hulk should always lose. Not being able to react is pretty ******.
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#75 - 2011-12-21 23:55:00 UTC
Again, its not intended for high sec.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Xolve
State War Academy
Caldari State
#76 - 2011-12-22 00:07:07 UTC
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui wrote:
Correction, a Hulk can carry two flights of lights or one of mediums, and drones ARE a threat to frigates, especially those that aren't going for max tracking on their guns...


Still doesn't matter.. most frigs can outrun drones, and kill them while they are doing it..

I'm sorry if frigates have a better tank then your ****** mining vessel.
Jimmyhatt
Contra Ratio
GameTheory
#77 - 2011-12-22 02:08:07 UTC
You cant say mining barge is intended for any sec... Givent the fact that you can find site through probes almost any mineral can be mined. There is not rule for intention of ship use.. To say a ship is ment for high sec or low sec or null sec is an assumption on your part.. Not a fact..
Thrawn Nostur
Impulsive Anarchy
#78 - 2011-12-22 03:11:55 UTC
Search youtube for a vid called "when carebears attack".
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#79 - 2011-12-22 03:42:12 UTC
Thrawn Nostur wrote:
Search youtube for a vid called "when carebears attack".

I know a pilot from one of my former alliances who actually owns a pointy Hulk ;) Canflip at your own risk!
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#80 - 2011-12-22 16:15:30 UTC
Jimmyhatt wrote:
You cant say mining barge is intended for any sec... There is not rule for intention of ship use.. To say a ship is ment for high sec or low sec or null sec is an assumption on your part.. Not a fact..

Actually, it is a fact. CCP designed the T1 mining barges to be used in high sec, and Hulks to be used in low and null sec.

If you don't believe it, then feel free to ask the CCP devs at FanFest.

Gank-proof ships, however, are not part of the design of any ship in the game.