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How bad can L4 be ?

Author
Stanijiro Karagora
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1 - 2016-03-17 13:17:23 UTC
Hi,

I'm kind of a not-so-new player but I've mostly done relic exploration, PI and hauling, so missionning is still new.
I'm currently running L3 in a basic Drake.
Now you know from where I speak (and may already guess that english is not my mother tongue, sorry for any inconvenience).

I've read the forum for some times now, and much is about how better blitz L4, burners and so on.
It generally involves some bling and some SP. Especially some SP ^^

My question is : with T1 BS, and T1 stuff,
- are L4 even feasible ?
- what may one expect as ISK/h doing so ?

If the stone fall on the egg, woe betide the egg; if the egg fall on the stone, woe betide the egg

Sara Starbuck
Adamantine Creations
#2 - 2016-03-17 13:48:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Sara Starbuck
Doable yes, unless you are totally clueless. However its slow and risky for new player.
I wouldnt recommend starting before you have t2 tank, decent droneskills to kill the npc frigates scramming you, and decent support skills. I would recommend like l3-4 on almost every skill listed in the mastery.
Also check http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=MissionReports for more information beforehand on the new missions.

Burners are even more advanced and require specific fits and rather high skills/understanding of game.
Scotsman Howard
S0utherN Comfort
#3 - 2016-03-17 14:53:37 UTC
Stanijiro Karagora wrote:
Hi,

I'm kind of a not-so-new player but I've mostly done relic exploration, PI and hauling, so missionning is still new.
I'm currently running L3 in a basic Drake.
Now you know from where I speak (and may already guess that english is not my mother tongue, sorry for any inconvenience).

I've read the forum for some times now, and much is about how better blitz L4, burners and so on.
It generally involves some bling and some SP. Especially some SP ^^

My question is : with T1 BS, and T1 stuff,
- are L4 even feasible ?
- what may one expect as ISK/h doing so ?


You're running a Drake, so this makes it look like you are missile specialized (or at least have more skills in it).

Logical step up would probably be a raven. Probably shield tanked. It has been a long, long time since I ran lv 4s in a raven, but in general, you would be flying with a MJD to jump 100km away and snipe.

General fit would look something like this (it is roughly what I use to use, but it has been a while and they did not have the application mods for missiles. Sorry as I am also blanking on the slot layout of the raven now as well).

Highs:

Cruise missiles
drone link aug (optional. Tractor beam would probably be more useful for some missions.)

mids:

MJD - you could in theory being a mobile depot and swap for afterburner on the fly, but in most cases, you can either slow boat while killing npcs or aim your first jump so the second jump puts you where you need to be
shield tank (min 3-4 slots with one being a booster)

Lows:

Ballistic Control units (3)
fill in the rest to taste

Rigs
2 Rigors
1 Flare
(I think this was the best combo for application)

Note: you can also fit up passive fits, but I never flew one of those. T2 tank is more than likely needed.

My advice: stay with lv3s till you have the necessary skills to fly a bs. You will probably make more money in the short term. Also, you mentioned blitzing lv4s. For the most part, you need a faction bs and good skills if you are going all out.
Paranoid Loyd
#4 - 2016-03-17 15:29:24 UTC
Reasons to do it:
It's challenging
It keeps the content fresh (temporarily)

Reasons not to do it:
It's inefficient with regards to isk/hr
You can't afford to lose a 200 mil isk ship and it's somewhat likely that it will happen

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#5 - 2016-03-17 20:35:52 UTC
L4s solo you can earn anywhere from 60m ISK/hour with standard Empire agents in 0.5 systems to over 200m ISK/hour with select SoE agents. This typically entails blitzing and running Burner missions.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Paranoid Loyd
#6 - 2016-03-17 20:39:12 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
L4s solo you can earn anywhere from 60m ISK/hour with standard Empire agents in 0.5 systems to over 200m ISK/hour with select SoE agents. This typically entails blitzing and running Burner missions.

With proper skills fitting and tactics sure, but that's not the question the OP asked.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!

Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#7 - 2016-03-17 22:11:37 UTC
not bad at all. If you can pay attention then some t2 damage mods, t2 hardeners, t2 drones, and some support skills and you are over qualified to complete the missions.

as Paranoid Loyd says it may be inefficient in terms of isk/hr. Running lv4s slowly will be less income than running level 3s fast.


this is more or less the copy/paste raven fitting. Probably will need to swap around a few mods to get it all to fit. common subs are the damage control for a co-proc or signal amp, or perhaps drop the booster to a large. Also the MJD is pretty easily swapable for an AB or MWD. personally I'd probably run an MWD, but the MJD can be nice for a gtfo button, where the AB can be used almost constantly and be used to mitigate some incoming damage. Some people use MJDs as a crutch to jump 100km away and snipe, but that just seems inefficient and boring to me. Missile travel time at that distance is just a drag (a barghest can get around that with a huge missile velocity bonus and to some extent a golem can too).

[Raven, low skill]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II

Pith C-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Thermal Dissipation Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Large Micro Jump Drive

'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Nova Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Nova Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Nova Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Nova Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Nova Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Nova Cruise Missile
Small Tractor Beam I

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I

drones to taste, I usually bring several flights of lights to have different damage types without swapping all the time and have backups too.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Stanijiro Karagora
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#8 - 2016-03-17 22:26:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Stanijiro Karagora
Thx all for the replies !

I'm OK with basic fitting voodoo, and I can stand to lose* 200 millions.

I read the topic Arthur begin about dual-boxing L4, it was interesting because along the way more people came with their numbers to compare.
That's what make me think, actually, because I was neither willing to dual-box nor to put several billions bling on a ship. Not on first intent anyway ^^

Hence the OP ; I was wondering what is really achievable when "beginning" BS (I'm aware you need good core skills and not just requirements).

I always try to not "wait for the skills", and do stuff anyway. But this area seems different. Several answers here mention T2 stuff as a must-have, for instance.

I was a bit expecting the answer Loyd give : doable but useless ISK/h-wise. Which is not so bad, I guess : it's a game, and it's fun to have ^^

I think I will just have to give it a try in order to know !




* I understand Eve golden rule as "don't fly what you can't stand to lose" rather than "can't afford", because I think it's less about ISK than about not rage-quitting ^^

If the stone fall on the egg, woe betide the egg; if the egg fall on the stone, woe betide the egg

Paranoid Loyd
#9 - 2016-03-17 22:56:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
I like the cut of your jib sir, good luck to you. Don't burn yourself out grinding missions though, make sure you break it up and explore the other content as well.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#10 - 2016-03-18 04:57:46 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
With proper skills fitting and tactics sure, but that's not the question the OP asked.

The OP asked about potential ISK/hour, hence my response.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

The Bigpuns
United Standings Improvement Agency
#11 - 2016-03-18 09:43:16 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
With proper skills fitting and tactics sure, but that's not the question the OP asked.

The OP asked about potential ISK/hour, hence my response.


He asked about doing it in t1 bs with t1 kit. Blitz and burners require something other than a shitfit raven. He will frankly be lucky to break 30 mil isk/hr.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2016-03-19 10:49:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Tipa Riot
I did missions as my start into EvE with Corax > Drake > Raven / Raven Navy (see good fitting examples above), plus looting, salvaging and this got me about 40m/h in lvl4s all solo, two years ago. Never advanced further into that profession (except for running some lvl3s and the epic arcs this January for fun and standing). As a relic explorer I earn 100-150m/h, beside that my funds come from clone soldier tags, occasional DED site, events, loot from killed ships / lost drones and some trading. I just grab what I can with minimal effort along my PvP activities. What I want to say is, try to diversify your income streams, and combine them with what you like ... fun and keeping the game fresh is the most important thing.

I'm my own NPC alt.

Forum Toon
Doomheim
#13 - 2016-03-19 12:33:12 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Fractal
L4s are easy. so easy as they are predictable

The catch is you need to build the correct tool for the job at hand.
some missions will be easier with certain ships and other with different kinds.

example,
Reacon 1 of 3 can be completed in less then a minute using shuttle.

Reference to macros removed. - ISD Fractal
Sir Francis Bacon
Weary Travelers
#14 - 2016-03-19 14:46:19 UTC
I like to run level 4s in a sentry drone boat, like the domi or the rattlesnake (with good skills and mods does over 1,100 dps). Fit a MJD and you are next to invincible against the rats in most missions. At 80-100km wardens will one or two shot all the small ships, and even shred through battleships in less than 30 seconds each. The only downside to this fit is when you have to slowboat to the gates, or containers. If you have enough tank and cap, you can switch out the MJD for an MWD, but then you face the problem of your sentry drones being static, so you have to manage your distance intelligently.
Stanijiro Karagora
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#15 - 2016-03-19 14:55:05 UTC
As stated in OP, I do relic exploration, PI, hauling / interregional trade...
I'm in fact trying to diversify into L4, not seing them as the only way ^^

Thx again for all the answers, every bit of info is a good one.

Do you think that in early stage, when you're slow, salvaging / looting is worth it, or even with low skills / fit, it's better to go LP and chain missions rather than kill full room ?

If the stone fall on the egg, woe betide the egg; if the egg fall on the stone, woe betide the egg

The Bigpuns
United Standings Improvement Agency
#16 - 2016-03-19 18:11:55 UTC
If you really can't fly a properly fit bs (ie. full t2 fit) then chances are you'd be better off dropping an mtu, as it can probably drag wrecks in as fast as you can kill them, and picking up as much of the the more valuable loot as will fit in your cargo, before jumping to next pocket or back to station.

But tbh, you might still be better off running 3's quickly (not the drakes strongest suit...).
Olivia Short
State War Academy
Caldari State
#17 - 2016-03-21 02:10:00 UTC
Stanijiro, get ahold of me ingame. I am an old vet returning to game. I have many years experience in all aspects of the game. I am looking for a mission buddy as well.
Lan Wang
African Atomic.
Dreadnought Diplomacy.
#18 - 2016-03-22 08:09:13 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Fractal
Forum Toon wrote:
L4s are easy. so easy as they are predictable

The catch is you need to build the correct tool for the job at hand.
some missions will be easier with certain ships and other with different kinds.

example,
Reacon 1 of 3 can be completed in less then a minute using shuttle.


isnt macro'ing against the tos i.e. input broadcasting?

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

erg cz
Federal Jegerouns
#19 - 2016-03-22 08:56:44 UTC  |  Edited by: erg cz
Stanijiro Karagora wrote:
As stated in OP, I do relic exploration, PI, hauling / interregional trade...
I'm in fact trying to diversify into L4, not seing them as the only way ^^

Thx again for all the answers, every bit of info is a good one.

Do you think that in early stage, when you're slow, salvaging / looting is worth it, or even with low skills / fit, it's better to go LP and chain missions rather than kill full room ?


L4 will give you unique view sights. Cathedrals, bunkers, drone structures etc...
Loot divercity is often the only thing, that makes you realy look for the mission to complete. You skip the loot - mission becomes your job with no surprise at the end.
Very same mission will give you different experience if runned in Machariel (brawler), Dominix (sniper) or Rattlesnake (cleaning DPS machine).
Blitzing the mission means you skip many of suggested missions cause only very limited list of missions can be blitzed effectively. Skipping missions will ruin your standings and standing grind is no fun, IMHO. This is the game, it supposed to be fun. You blitz = you do the mission in very static, same way. Its a job, not game - buy the plex and save you from troubles.

Low skill L4 starter: Dominix with large micro jump drive and sentry drones. Drop mobile tractor unit, jump 100 km away from NPC and kill them as they burn toward you with 0 transversal speed. Range is your tank, drones is your way how to adjust your damage type and be ewar immune. Jump back to MTU, scope it and go to next room. Skip wrecks, that are not yet pulled to MTU.
Use meta modules instead of T2 and downgrade or skip guns untill you can use this fit:
[Dominix, 150km optimal range tank]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Federation Navy Drone Damage Amplifier
Shadow Serpentis Large Armor Repairer
IFFA Compact Damage Control
Federation Navy Drone Damage Amplifier

Large Micro Jump Drive
F-90 Compact Sensor Booster, Targeting Range Script
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link, Optimal Range Script
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link, Optimal Range Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script

Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Radio L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Radio L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Radio L
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Drone Scope Chip II
Large Ionic Field Projector I
Large Drone Control Range Augmentor II

Warden II x5
Mission specific sentry drone II x5
medium and small drones

Once you have all skills to run this fit you can start to skill missiles and caldary ships to gat maximum out of that:
[Rattlesnake, L4 RHML 90 km]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Federation Navy Drone Damage Amplifier
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 400
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Missile Guidance Computer II, Missile Range Script
Astro-Inertial Compact Missile Guidance Computer, Missile Range Script
Large Micro Jump Drive
500MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link, Optimal Range Script

Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Auto-Targeting Heavy Missile I
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Auto-Targeting Heavy Missile I
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Auto-Targeting Heavy Missile I
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Auto-Targeting Heavy Missile I
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Auto-Targeting Heavy Missile I
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
Large Processor Overclocking Unit I

mission specific sentry drones II x2
small and 2 heavy drones
Warden II x2

This fit should let you clean entire room much more quickly, then Dominix, but you will have to tank, kite, know triggers etc... You have to LMJD jump TOWARDS the rats, not away from them as in case of Dominix.

Or skip all this and go straight to Machariel, with its navigation bonuses it is very popular L4 tool. Especially among people,who blitz missions.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#20 - 2016-03-25 22:45:06 UTC
The Bigpuns wrote:
He asked about doing it in t1 bs with t1 kit. Blitz and burners require something other than a shitfit raven. He will frankly be lucky to break 30 mil isk/hr.

Point taken. And 30m ISK/hour would be very generous...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

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