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What happened with war decs?
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Gavascon
need more power inc.
#241 - 2016-03-17 10:07:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Gavascon
Geronimo McVain wrote:
Gavascon wrote:

as for war cost:
it's a graduated scale based upon corp/alliance size with a cap.
generally, we spend 50 million for 1 week of war.
what do we get?
kill mails, loot drops and sometimes a payment to end the war.
loot drops can be worth hundreds of millions.
loot drops are sold - which fuel the war chest.
profitable - you bet!

for those who "cry"/"whine" about war, think twice. because you're already shooting something of one type or another.
the fact that you are shooting another player instead of an asteroid, mission rat, sansha incursion or sleeper shouldn't make any difference to you at all.

Are the sleepers paying to have fun the way they want to play? You are confusing bots with players. Bots are contend by CCP, players are here to have fun on their own and not for you to have fun with.
The main problem is, that the defender has no way to stop a war or he might go at it and, if he wins, have his way of fun and you need to look for another target.
Just a question: If the defender hires mercs that appear on your doorstep and flatten you: would you drop the wardecc or would you keep it on to reduce your losses with some ganked ships? And what will other corps do?
If you wardecc someone the right answer in Eve is to fight it out not to play hide an seek depending on who has more bang at the moment. Are YOU using your main to ferry goods while you are deccing someone else?


sleepers are computer generated pirates which players destroy/salvage to make t3 cruisers. players aren't bots.
a defending corp can stop a war by negotiating a surrender.
defenders get ally's all the time. we view it as more free targets.
we'll adapt to who's been hired and alter strategy accordingly.
will we dock up? sure...
drop a dec? never.
how do i handle war? that's not something i'm going to share in a public forum.

now for the "rude" part - this comment....."players are here to have fun on their own and not for you to have fun with." umm, everyone in game has their own style of play. if mine is to war dec, that's within the rules of the game. if i consider that to be fun, who are you to tell me otherwise?
Giaus Felix
Doomheim
#242 - 2016-03-17 10:13:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Giaus Felix
Drago Shouna wrote:
But you did hit the nail on the head "aggressors will have an easier time getting a fight" and that's the crux of the problem, wardeccers can't be arsed seeking the content they say they crave, even though there's thousands of fights to be had in low and null 24/7.
The crux of the problem is actually people like yourself that think that there should be less PvP in hisec, and that you should be able to hang on to stuff that you can't defend.

I'll let you in on a little secret, the majority of players live in hisec, the majority of industry is done in highsec, the majority of trade is done in hisec, the majority of isk is made in hisec. Taking all that into account it's fairly obvious that the majority of viable wardec targets are in hisec; why would people seeking fights go looking for them in places where there are less targets?

Predators go where the prey are, they don't aimlessly wander the desolate wastelands when they can get to an oasis.

Quote:
But nooo, you don't want players who can form a group up and fight back.
Actually they do, which is why they're hellbent on making sure that those that won't either change their ways or GTFO, and those that can't learn how to make friends and shoot people.

Quote:
So you scream and whine to CCP to make it easier and easier in high sec,
Citation needed, the only people I've seen screaming for things to made easier and easier are those looking to avoid PvP at all costs.

Quote:
and I'll repeat..thats just pathetic, you are just the typical school playground or workplace bullies, and that is all you will ever be. there's lots and lots of ways to get fights in EVE. They go on about risk averse players, theres none as risk averse as a group of players watching an undock for a new or inexperienced player making a mistake or picking on small one man corps.
Speaking of the playground mentality, have you read your own posts?

I came for the spaceships, I stayed for the tears.
Drago Shouna
Doomheim
#243 - 2016-03-17 12:25:23 UTC
I have the absolute right to use game mechanics or anything else to avoid a wardec.

You have the absolute right under present game mechanics to use wardecs to try to get a kill. (the type of target you want is highly debatable)

Do I think they need a big alteration...yes.

I'd love them to go back to needing a kill right to initiate a wardec (if I'm remembering correctly), the one that gave the agressed the option to wardec, not the agressor? And a massive reduction in the amount you can initiate at the same time.

But hey, regardless of what happens in the future, There's not a chance of me putting a massive immovable target in space for you just because the CSM and CCP thinks that's what the game needs.

So wardec away, if it happens to me I'll chuckle at the waste of 50mil and just carry on x

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Cara Forelli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#244 - 2016-03-17 12:32:17 UTC
Drago Shouna wrote:
(the type of target you want is highly debatable)

No it isn't.

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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#245 - 2016-03-17 12:57:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Drago Shouna wrote:
I have the absolute right to use game mechanics or anything else to avoid a wardec.
Nobody is disputing that.

Quote:
You have the absolute right under present game mechanics to use wardecs to try to get a kill. (the type of target you want is highly debatable)
Correct, they do; and no it's not

Quote:
I'd love them to go back to needing a kill right to initiate a wardec (if I'm remembering correctly), the one that gave the agressed the option to wardec, not the agressor?
That was never the case, you've never needed a killright to initiate a war.

Quote:
And a massive reduction in the amount you can initiate at the same time.
If a merc corp can afford to maintain a high number of wardecs who are you to say that they shouldn't?

Quote:
But hey, regardless of what happens in the future, There's not a chance of me putting a massive immovable target in space for you just because the CSM and CCP thinks that's what the game needs.

So wardec away, if it happens to me I'll chuckle at the waste of 50mil and just carry on x
That's fine, as long as you don't expect to get the same advantages that people who are willing to do so get.

TBH I think mercs are the least of your worries, I'd hazard a guess that you may have attracted the attentions of purveyors of rather more unscrupulous spaceship violence.

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Lasisha Mishi
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#246 - 2016-03-17 15:40:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Lasisha Mishi
nullsec is to far away

so lazy peeps declare war on everyone so they can kill people outside jita without police getting revenge on them.

easy to boost killboard, while being right next to jita to replace ship if it somehow dies.



compare with null where most enemies you fight will be prepared to fight back(and so it wont be 1 sided murder fests like in high sec) and replacign a ship takes alot of jumps.

plus nullsec has big harder to solo gank ships. and warp bubbles. and drift bubbles.
to much work


easier to declare war on everyone you see passing through the jita stargates. and then start destroyign all freighters and small ships goign through. while being protected from police by the war dec system.


easy, usually 1 sided battles, and very easy to boost your "zkillboard" ratios. and bonus! alot more victims to kill. instead of having to hunt them yourselfs in null sec.

can YOU give 1 reason to fight in nullsec when murdering in highsec is so much easier?

(hence why i go through New Caldari instead of Perimeter. alot less people declaring wars on that route.)
Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#247 - 2016-03-17 16:08:27 UTC
Lasisha Mishi wrote:
compare with null where most enemies you fight will be prepared to fight back


You are a funny one. Lol
Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#248 - 2016-03-17 16:31:31 UTC
Neuntausend wrote:
Lasisha Mishi wrote:
compare with null where most enemies you fight will be prepared to fight back


You are a funny one. Lol

Eww I liked a goon post

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ImYourMom
Retribution Holdings Corp
Retribution.
#249 - 2016-03-17 17:20:14 UTC
just seeing all the posts and long comments in almost all posts proves that this is quite a hot topic of conversation and many people have some great real views about this. its quite refreshing to see. I hope CCP are following and really thinking about this
Atomic Virulent
Embargo.
#250 - 2016-03-17 17:24:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Atomic Virulent
They need to make wardecs a skill that is referenced by a corp CEO or the CEO of an Alliance executor corp.

1 wardec allowed per skill level up to 5. Hell, I'd be perfectly OK with it being 2 allowed per level up to 10.

Beyond that war declarations have no purpose other than paying for free kills in Highsec.

They should have meaning and consequences. Marmite is the perfect example. Its just a free reign on killing and this system just keeps players logged off and unsubscribed for weeks/months at a time because they can't even undock. Very counter-productive for CCP's wallet.
Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#251 - 2016-03-17 17:37:18 UTC
Atomic Virulent wrote:
They need to make wardecs a skill that is referenced by a corp CEO or the CEO of an Alliance executor corp.

1 wardec allowed per skill level up to 5. Hell, I'd be perfectly OK with it being 2 allowed per level up to 10.

Beyond that war declarations have no purpose other than paying for free kills in Highsec.

They should have meaning and consequences. Marmite is the perfect example. Its just a free reign on killing and this system just keeps players logged off and unsubscribed for weeks/months at a time because they can't even undock. Very counter-productive for CCP's wallet.

How about 10 per level then 50 for advanced and mega wardec 1000 per level. With another skill added called wardec administration that reduces cost by 15% per level?

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

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Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#252 - 2016-03-17 17:51:49 UTC
Atomic Virulent wrote:
paying for free kills in Highsec.


not empty quoting.
Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#253 - 2016-03-17 17:53:01 UTC
Atomic Virulent wrote:
They need to make wardecs a skill that is referenced by a corp CEO or the CEO of an Alliance executor corp.

1 wardec allowed per skill level up to 5. Hell, I'd be perfectly OK with it being 2 allowed per level up to 10.

Beyond that war declarations have no purpose other than paying for free kills in Highsec.

They should have meaning and consequences. Marmite is the perfect example. Its just a free reign on killing and this system just keeps players logged off and unsubscribed for weeks/months at a time because they can't even undock. Very counter-productive for CCP's wallet.


Again one of those suggestions that aim to disallow mass wardecs without tackling the issue that causes people to mass-wardec in the first place. Suggestions are great and all, but they are useless if they only restrict, not incentivize and don't tackle the underlying issues.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#254 - 2016-03-17 18:30:31 UTC
To anyone reading this who has a war dec you do not want: You should do one of two things:

1) Do not undock for the duration of the war.
2) Drop corp for the duration of the war.

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Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#255 - 2016-03-17 19:09:51 UTC
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
Atomic Virulent wrote:
paying for free kills in Highsec.


not empty quoting.


But they grinded the ISK themselves!!!!!

LolLolLol
Starrakatt
Empire Assault Corp
Dead Terrorists
#256 - 2016-03-17 19:20:18 UTC
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Neuntausend wrote:
Lasisha Mishi wrote:
compare with null where most enemies you fight will be prepared to fight back


You are a funny one. Lol

Eww I liked a goon post

Yeah, me too. I almost feel dirty. P

From my experience in Nulsec, most of the kills are often as lopsided as is Hisec fish-in-a-barrel Jita undock shooting.

Do not confuse consensual fleet fights over an objective/Sov with the run of the mill Nulsec (or Lowsec for that matter) day-to-day ship killing ganking.

Join Celtic Anarchy!

Sneaky bastard.
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#257 - 2016-03-17 19:22:31 UTC
Atomic Virulent wrote:
They should have meaning and consequences.

If they don't have meaning and consequence, why do so many people complain about them?

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tiberiusric
Comply Or Die
Pandemic Horde
#258 - 2016-03-18 14:38:27 UTC
because youre taking away easy kills. i mean just think if they had to shoot someone who shot back!

All my views are my own - never be afraid to post with your main, unless you're going to post some dumb shit
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#259 - 2016-03-18 15:19:41 UTC
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
How about 10 per level then 50 for advanced and mega wardec 1000 per level. With another skill added called wardec administration that reduces cost by 15% per level?


Hard numerical limits wouldn't work because a corporation dropping from an alliance generates a war. You could even artificially max out an aggressors limit by joining corps to your alliance and dropping them out.

It would also make mercenaries less useful (just like they used to be) because it would be possible to be "full" on wars and therefore mechanically unable to take on more contracts.

And because of the unilateral nature of the ally system anyone attempting to assist the aggressor needs to declare war on every single ally the defender has individually, which is already a huge problem when dealing with escalating wars and would be even worse if there was a hard cap.

Basically it would both be mechanically unsound and be bad for gameplay. Any changes to the war mechanics need to actually be properly thought out and aimed and providing a better experience for the people using the system and to make it a more viable tool for everyone to use, not brainless blanket nerfs intended to limit it's usefulness or make being an aggressor so prohibitively expensive, annoying or risky that nobody except dedicated alliances with huge piles of money would ever use it.
Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#260 - 2016-03-18 15:49:01 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
To anyone reading this who has a war dec you do not want: You should do one of two things:

1) Do not undock for the duration of the war.
2) Drop corp for the duration of the war.


Why? My Indy alt corp was decced by mercs. It's a typical solo Indy corp with my toons and some old friends who unsubbed but I never kicked. Two of the characters won't undock simply because there is no need to when doing PI/invention/manufacturing as I did a supply run before the war. And I can pick up the PI after the Dec is over.

My exploration toon... What does he have to fear? Yeah, if the war deccers are in local, I may want to stay docked. If not... The chances of them coming out to the middle of no where for a lone covert ops kill is slim. Add in that I am cloaked 90% of the time, only uncloaking for data and relic sites, the risk is nearly nonexistant. Add in that I could head to nul, wormhole, or even low sec space, I become a non target basically. And if I want hi sec, there are ample small pockets surrounded by low sec I could visit. Heck, many of those options can even net me more isk than hi sec exploration.

Most of these active war decs are from trade hub and major travel pipe campers. They cast a wide net in the hopes of catching those who pass through their sphere of influence. Spread out from those beaten paths, watch local, and be a little cautious and you have nothing to fear. Fly something fun, cheap, but works and you'll be even better off.