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What happened with war decs?
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Drago Shouna
Doomheim
#221 - 2016-03-16 22:38:52 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Black Pedro wrote:
Geronimo McVain wrote:
What deccing really needs is some way that the attacker can loose and is forced to stop the war.
No, this is the last thing this game needs - yet another way to isolate yourself from the risks of the sandbox while carrying on with your economy-altering grinding and/or industry.
The irony of this stance is that leaving defenders effectively powerless to affect any real goal in a war makes doing exactly what you say the game doesn't need the optimal solution in every conceivable manner.

They can't end the war, they likely don't care about the kills if they wanted out, so what is the obvious solution?
They have to defend their stuff. If they don't want to defend their stuff, then they lose it, but that then begs the question why are they in a corp if they do not care that much about their corporate assets to begin with?

Your goal as the defender is to keep your stuff just like pretty much every other player who is attacked everywhere else in this game. You are not powerless to do so.

Wars are completely optional to the player. You can drop to the NPC corp at any time and you should always be able to do so. But if you are benefiting from the bonus a structure or corporation provides, then you have the responsibility to defend it. While I admit there are some issues with the design, it is clearly a simple risk vs. reward like the rest of the game.

CCP is not going to give you another way to end a war. In fact they are in the process of taking one away (POS takedown). Honestly, I am amazed so many otherwise reasonable people suggest such an obviously sandbox-killing idea like it has any chance of being implemented. Making it absolutely impossible for a conflict to continue because one side wins a single battle makes no sense in a game about spaceship fighting and is completely counter-productive to the player-driven direction CCP Seagull is currently taking the game.

You are intended to be always vulnerable. Highsec is not suppose to be safe. Corporations are the competitive unit of Eve. These are truths that have been with the game since the beginning and CCP shows no signs of changing. Allowing you to benefit from being in a corporation, while being completely safe from your opponent because you blobbed a beacon clearly breaks these.

If you don't want to deal with wars, go to the NPC corp. If CCP wants to add a social corp or a societies mechanic so players can from social groups without the risk of wars (and without the benefits of a real corporation) I'll be one of the players clapping the loudest from the sidelines. But if you actually expect CCP to turn wars into a game of capture the flag that rewards one side with complete immunity to the other, you really don't understand what type of game you are playing, or what type of game CCP is trying to develop.



You don't realise what type of players you are dealing with either, nor it seems do CCP.

Let's take the pos takedown for instance.

As it stands now, when I get war decced I have the option to take it down and put it back a week later, which you hate :)

So just lets presume I am eventually forced to get a Citadel, a medium one. If I get war decced I then can't take it down. Giving you an easy target if I can't defend it. So I'm forced into a 1-2bn isk loss just to satisfy you and your Corp?

And CCP thinks this is a good idea? Really? They seriously think that there'll be the same amount of Citadels refining and compressing as there are posses now?

Under these conditions not a chance. We are not here as something for CCP to force into being targets in a duck shoot.

Solecist Project...." They refuse to play by the rules and laws of the game and use it as excuse ..." " They don't care about how you play as long as they get to play how they want."

Welcome to EVE.
Mr Mieyli
Doomheim
#222 - 2016-03-16 22:50:43 UTC
Drago, it's entirely possible that CCP wants corps possessing in space assets to have the ability to defend themselves. This probably means that your corp will have pvp players and industry players to ensure your citadel is protected. As you say it's a big investment so you'd surely want to make sure it's protected.

With markets being transferred to citadels it becomes possible for a corp with industrials to supply itself with some of it's demand, haulers could even stock corp markets from trade hubs. The new structures will allow for a lot more depth with corp, and by extension war, mechanics I believe.

This post brought to you by CCP's alpha forum alt initiative. Playing the eve forums has never come cheaper.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#223 - 2016-03-16 22:51:41 UTC
Drago Shouna wrote:


You don't realise what type of players you are dealing with either, nor it seems do CCP.

Let's take the pos takedown for instance.

As it stands now, when I get war decced I have the option to take it down and put it back a week later, which you hate :)

So just lets presume I am eventually forced to get a Citadel, a medium one. If I get war decced I then can't take it down. Giving you an easy target if I can't defend it. So I'm forced into a 1-2bn isk loss just to satisfy you and your Corp?

And CCP thinks this is a good idea? Really? They seriously think that there'll be the same amount of Citadels refining and compressing as there are posses now?

Under these conditions not a chance. We are not here as something for CCP to force into being targets in a duck shoot.

And why can't you defend it? That is the relevant question here.
Are you prevented by CCP from flying combat ships? Are you prevented by CCP from manning citadel weapons?
While I have my own concerns over the strength of citadel defences in highsec, unless CCP prevents you from actually firing back please explain why you can't defend it at all.
Drago Shouna
Doomheim
#224 - 2016-03-16 23:21:50 UTC
Mr Mieyli wrote:
Drago, it's entirely possible that CCP wants corps possessing in space assets to have the ability to defend themselves. This probably means that your corp will have pvp players and industry players to ensure your citadel is protected. As you say it's a big investment so you'd surely want to make sure it's protected.

With markets being transferred to citadels it becomes possible for a corp with industrials to supply itself with some of it's demand, haulers could even stock corp markets from trade hubs. The new structures will allow for a lot more depth with corp, and by extension war, mechanics I believe.


That won't work with a one or two man mining/industrial corp. It's damn close to a guaranteed Citadel loss.

Courtesy of CCP.

Solecist Project...." They refuse to play by the rules and laws of the game and use it as excuse ..." " They don't care about how you play as long as they get to play how they want."

Welcome to EVE.
Paranoid Loyd
#225 - 2016-03-16 23:29:12 UTC
Drago Shouna wrote:
That won't work with a one or two man mining/industrial corp. It's damn close to a guaranteed Citadel loss.
As it should be.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Drago Shouna
Doomheim
#226 - 2016-03-16 23:34:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Drago Shouna
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Drago Shouna wrote:


You don't realise what type of players you are dealing with either, nor it seems do CCP.

Let's take the pos takedown for instance.

As it stands now, when I get war decced I have the option to take it down and put it back a week later, which you hate :)

So just lets presume I am eventually forced to get a Citadel, a medium one. If I get war decced I then can't take it down. Giving you an easy target if I can't defend it. So I'm forced into a 1-2bn isk loss just to satisfy you and your Corp?

And CCP thinks this is a good idea? Really? They seriously think that there'll be the same amount of Citadels refining and compressing as there are posses now?

Under these conditions not a chance. We are not here as something for CCP to force into being targets in a duck shoot.

And why can't you defend it? That is the relevant question here.
Are you prevented by CCP from flying combat ships? Are you prevented by CCP from manning citadel weapons?
While I have my own concerns over the strength of citadel defences in highsec, unless CCP prevents you from actually firing back please explain why you can't defend it at all.


Because as I have just said. A small one or two man mining Corp couldn't stand against a pvp merc Corp. Yeah I could hire protection...Lol, tried that once..pfft..So why would anyone put a massive structure in space with a target painted on it?

Some will, but would they replace it?

I was considering buying a medium, until tonight when I realised they changed the mechanics so I couldn't remove it after getting a wardec. Don't you just love being guaranteed cannon fodder :)

Solecist Project...." They refuse to play by the rules and laws of the game and use it as excuse ..." " They don't care about how you play as long as they get to play how they want."

Welcome to EVE.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#227 - 2016-03-16 23:38:58 UTC
Drago Shouna wrote:


Because as I have just said. A small one or two man mining Corp couldn't stand against a pvp merc Corp. Yeah I could hire protection...Lol, tried that once..pfft..So why would anyone put a massive structure in space with a target painted on it?

Some will, but would they replace it?

Or you could.... Oh, grow?
Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#228 - 2016-03-16 23:41:25 UTC
Drago Shouna wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Drago Shouna wrote:


You don't realise what type of players you are dealing with either, nor it seems do CCP.

Let's take the pos takedown for instance.

As it stands now, when I get war decced I have the option to take it down and put it back a week later, which you hate :)

So just lets presume I am eventually forced to get a Citadel, a medium one. If I get war decced I then can't take it down. Giving you an easy target if I can't defend it. So I'm forced into a 1-2bn isk loss just to satisfy you and your Corp?

And CCP thinks this is a good idea? Really? They seriously think that there'll be the same amount of Citadels refining and compressing as there are posses now?

Under these conditions not a chance. We are not here as something for CCP to force into being targets in a duck shoot.

And why can't you defend it? That is the relevant question here.
Are you prevented by CCP from flying combat ships? Are you prevented by CCP from manning citadel weapons?
While I have my own concerns over the strength of citadel defences in highsec, unless CCP prevents you from actually firing back please explain why you can't defend it at all.


Because as I have just said. A small one or two man mining Corp couldn't stand against a pvp merc Corp. Yeah I could hire protection...Lol, tried that once..pfft..So why would anyone put a massive structure in space with a target painted on it?

Some will, but would they replace it?

Better question. Why should you be allowed a structure you can't defend? Even better question why would I bother to bash it as there is so little gain for time invested?

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin
Drago Shouna
Doomheim
#229 - 2016-03-16 23:53:52 UTC
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Drago Shouna wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Drago Shouna wrote:


You don't realise what type of players you are dealing with either, nor it seems do CCP.

Let's take the pos takedown for instance.

As it stands now, when I get war decced I have the option to take it down and put it back a week later, which you hate :)

So just lets presume I am eventually forced to get a Citadel, a medium one. If I get war decced I then can't take it down. Giving you an easy target if I can't defend it. So I'm forced into a 1-2bn isk loss just to satisfy you and your Corp?

And CCP thinks this is a good idea? Really? They seriously think that there'll be the same amount of Citadels refining and compressing as there are posses now?

Under these conditions not a chance. We are not here as something for CCP to force into being targets in a duck shoot.

And why can't you defend it? That is the relevant question here.
Are you prevented by CCP from flying combat ships? Are you prevented by CCP from manning citadel weapons?
While I have my own concerns over the strength of citadel defences in highsec, unless CCP prevents you from actually firing back please explain why you can't defend it at all.


Because as I have just said. A small one or two man mining Corp couldn't stand against a pvp merc Corp. Yeah I could hire protection...Lol, tried that once..pfft..So why would anyone put a massive structure in space with a target painted on it?

Some will, but would they replace it?

Better question. Why should you be allowed a structure you can't defend? Even better question why would I bother to bash it as there is so little gain for time invested?


I have a pos now that I can easily defend by taking it down. So why should I be barred from owning a new structure based on my Corp size or occupations?

As I understand it, popping the Citadel would result in approx 50% of its value dropping in loot and materials. So about 500/750 million isk? Possibly a lot more if any rigs dropped. That's for the smallest.

Solecist Project...." They refuse to play by the rules and laws of the game and use it as excuse ..." " They don't care about how you play as long as they get to play how they want."

Welcome to EVE.
Mr Mieyli
Doomheim
#230 - 2016-03-17 00:13:17 UTC
Taking a pos down isn't defending it, it's packing up your operations and hiding for a week. One of the many things that needs to change for wardecs to function properly is for corporations to have lasting infrastructure in space. And not just citadels I mean mining platforms to enable mining corps to get great reprocessing rates, communications towers to provide a ping when war targets enter an X jump perimeter, war towers to allow corps to declare wars, and of course citadels for markets. All these should require in space infrastructure that is vulnerable to war decs. No offense to your two man corp, but if you can't defend your structure you should pay the market taxes to someone who is able to keep a citadel defended.

Once defenders are forced to defend their assets if they want the benefits, aggressors will have an easier time getting a fight. At the same time the defenders have a natural goal in destroying the aggressors war tower (which lets them declare wars) thus ending the war. This promotes corps to take structures that enhance their style of play, making them vulnerable to attack, and requiring combat over structures to end the war.

This post brought to you by CCP's alpha forum alt initiative. Playing the eve forums has never come cheaper.
Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#231 - 2016-03-17 00:55:05 UTC
Drago Shouna wrote:
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Drago Shouna wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Drago Shouna wrote:


You don't realise what type of players you are dealing with either, nor it seems do CCP.

Let's take the pos takedown for instance.

As it stands now, when I get war decced I have the option to take it down and put it back a week later, which you hate :)

So just lets presume I am eventually forced to get a Citadel, a medium one. If I get war decced I then can't take it down. Giving you an easy target if I can't defend it. So I'm forced into a 1-2bn isk loss just to satisfy you and your Corp?

And CCP thinks this is a good idea? Really? They seriously think that there'll be the same amount of Citadels refining and compressing as there are posses now?

Under these conditions not a chance. We are not here as something for CCP to force into being targets in a duck shoot.

And why can't you defend it? That is the relevant question here.
Are you prevented by CCP from flying combat ships? Are you prevented by CCP from manning citadel weapons?
While I have my own concerns over the strength of citadel defences in highsec, unless CCP prevents you from actually firing back please explain why you can't defend it at all.


Because as I have just said. A small one or two man mining Corp couldn't stand against a pvp merc Corp. Yeah I could hire protection...Lol, tried that once..pfft..So why would anyone put a massive structure in space with a target painted on it?

Some will, but would they replace it?

Better question. Why should you be allowed a structure you can't defend? Even better question why would I bother to bash it as there is so little gain for time invested?


I have a pos now that I can easily defend by taking it down. So why should I be barred from owning a new structure based on my Corp size or occupations?

As I understand it, popping the Citadel would result in approx 50% of its value dropping in loot and materials. So about 500/750 million isk? Possibly a lot more if any rigs dropped. That's for the smallest.

The last person I decced who did this got redecced as they began to anchor the pos again. Sure enough the started to unachor it. Fast forward 45mins with 30 seconds to go a stabber lands on grid and sends the occator 20km from the tower and I land on grid too scoop a true sansha large tower. Moral of the story is you still can't defend it now

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin
Gyliam Maddox
EVE Credit Bureau
#232 - 2016-03-17 01:05:19 UTC
Zappity wrote:
We need wardecs changed so they are attackable. Steve Ronuken had a good idea about making them dependent upon an anchored whatsit that can be shot. That would be good I think.


That would be terrible
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#233 - 2016-03-17 01:12:42 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Avaelica Kuershin wrote:
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Here's how to fix wars in a balanced way:


3) The current ally system needs tweaking. The dogpiling that can happen where multiple large merc alliances jump in for free just to add a few more targets to the list borders on the absurd. Raise the scaling costs for addtional allies, or maybe even give the aggressor the ability to bring allies into the war if the defender brings in too many (say the aggressor can have one less ally than the defender).


I'm late to this thread and have only recently looked at the details of wardec, but one thing I read was that by making a wardec mutual, allies are excluded on both sides. Of course, that's only applicable where the defender wants to fight.

Regarding locator agents, I'm guessing they only work for k-space. What do they give as a response if the target is in w-space?
(I'll be checking for myself after work)

"Sorry, they're outside my zone of influence"

Yes, the message essentially tells you they are in a wormhole. Anywhere else and they are found.

I really wish locator agents were improved. Being forced to sit an alt in a station so you can access them is not compelling gameplay. Making them accessible from anywhere (perhaps for an increased fee) would be good.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#234 - 2016-03-17 01:15:42 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Here's how to fix wars in a balanced way:

Start by fixing corporations...

That was a good post. I forget now - were corporations next on the big roadmap thing?

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Black Pedro
Mine.
#235 - 2016-03-17 07:39:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Black Pedro
Drago Shouna wrote:
You don't realise what type of players you are dealing with either, nor it seems do CCP.

Let's take the pos takedown for instance.

As it stands now, when I get war decced I have the option to take it down and put it back a week later, which you hate :)
I know exactly what type of player these changes to structures seek to target, as does CCP. These are players who actively seek to provide no content to the game, yet generate resources and do industry that affects the economy. They seek to subvert the social contract of Eve where players are given resources in exchange for making themselves a target. They want all the benefits that effort and organizations provide with none of the risk or investment. They are the type of player that is strangling the game.

You clearly don't know what of game you are dealing with. You are not suppose to be able to enjoy all the benefits of a corporation, including a benefit-providing POS with zero risk of losing your structure. I can't believe CCP let that travesty last for so long and take that as real evidence that the POS code was really as big a mess as they say it was.

Well they are finally correcting that failure in game design. No longer will you be able to enjoy the benefits of a POS only to fold it up, and thumb your nose at an aggressor from the complete safety of a station. You will have to defend that structure, or watch it explode from under you as it should be. You will actually now be giving back to the game when you own a structure, providing content for your rival industrialists, various ne'er-do-wells and even other friendly industrialists who can use the services you provide instead of just selfishly taking from the game like you are currently.

The day when POSes are shut down can't come soon enough and you will be forced to make a decision. You can deploy a structure and accept the responsibility of defending it, or you can pay another player to use their structure (or the NPCs and their stations) who will provide that content to the greater community for you. The choice is up to you, but your days of exploiting game mechanics to keep content from the greater community are coming to an end.

Finally.

Drago Shouna wrote:
So just lets presume I am eventually forced to get a Citadel, a medium one. If I get war decced I then can't take it down. Giving you an easy target if I can't defend it. So I'm forced into a 1-2bn isk loss just to satisfy you and your Corp?

And CCP thinks this is a good idea? Really? They seriously think that there'll be the same amount of Citadels refining and compressing as there are posses now?

Under these conditions not a chance. We are not here as something for CCP to force into being targets in a duck shoot.
If you don't want to, or can't, defend a structure then just don't deploy one. I am sure other players braver or more organized than you will do so and be happy to let you use their services for a fee. Or you can stay in the safety of the the NPC stations for only a small hit to your yield. If you are not willing to risk any assets to other players, why do you even need all that ISK anyways? I am sure you can sacrifice some percent of your ISK/h since you are spending nothing on your own defence.

Honestly though, Citadels are shaping up to be a reasonably tough nut to crack. We haven't seen everything yet, but even a manned medium citadel is not going to be easy for a similarly sized group as yours to knock over. Further, the defined reinforcement timers will make it easy to hire mercenaries to show up and defend your structure for the 15 minutes it takes to regenerate and give a boost to that profession. I don't think they will be impossible at all for a solo player with a few friends or access to mercenaries to defend.

But if you just can't handle the thought of having to defend a structure, then perhaps this mechanic isn't for you.

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
Geronimo McVain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#236 - 2016-03-17 07:39:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Geronimo McVain
Mr Mieyli wrote:
Once defenders are forced to defend their assets if they want the benefits, aggressors will have an easier time getting a fight. At the same time the defenders have a natural goal in destroying the aggressors war tower (which lets them declare wars) thus ending the war. This promotes corps to take structures that enhance their style of play, making them vulnerable to attack, and requiring combat over structures to end the war.

In principle a good idea, but why do you need wardeccs to do so? You can just now do all this in Sov-Space. With wardeccs you force corps that don't want to fight into fighting. So you are enforcing your playstyle on on them. Why do you do so when you have half of New Eden where you can fight without Concord etc.? Why do you want to fight with someone who doesn't when players are complaining that Sov-space is boring and nothings happening?
If a citadell is needed for Wardeccs the same thing will happen as in Sov Space. People will band together into Mega-Pirate-Corps to defend their property and everyone outside the Megas will stand no chance. so the solution for mining corps will be simple: don't build a citadell and you can't get decced.

It's time that people realise that there are more playstyles in Eve then just PvP! The Mining Corp you are deccing is run by players that pay the same amount of money to have fun in Eve. And THEY mine the minerals that make it possible to buy your Machariel at 350M Isk and not at 1.350B Isk. In the end Eve is a business sim with attached PvP and not the other way round. So if you hit the mining corps hard enough to kill the non-PVP fun for these players you will have to mine your own minerals.
Personally I think mining is boring but I value that this is fun to these players! I explore or mission to create money which will enable them to earn money and I get the minerals I need without mining. Everyone has fun this way. If Eve scares away the miners where will you get the minerals worth the trillions of Isk that are destroyed every month in PvP?

There is really no reason for non mutual wardeccs because you can do everything you can do in a dec in Sov space 24/7. Except that it's much easier to dock up if a fleet comes after you, to get replacement ships or repairs in High and the loot is better because the pery isn't so alert. To put it frankly: Wardeccs in High are for people not accepting the harsh world of Sov-Space. If you want a fight got to Null or low and brag about all the cowards who are afraid to fight you. The industrial corps might make you a good offer for your replacement ship..... Cool
Avaelica Kuershin
Paper Cats
#237 - 2016-03-17 07:56:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Avaelica Kuershin
Geronimo McVain wrote:
Mr Mieyli wrote:
Once defenders are forced to defend their assets if they want the benefits, aggressors will have an easier time getting a fight. At the same time the defenders have a natural goal in destroying the aggressors war tower (which lets them declare wars) thus ending the war. This promotes corps to take structures that enhance their style of play, making them vulnerable to attack, and requiring combat over structures to end the war.



It's time that people realise that there are more playstyles in Eve then just PvP! The Mining Corp you are deccing is run by players that pay the same amount of money to have fun in Eve. And THEY mine the minerals that make it possible to buy your Machariel at 350M Isk and not at 1.350B Isk. In the end Eve is a business sim with attached PvP and not the other way round.


Ah, sounds like you've confused EvE with something else.
(FWIW, I've mined and the only time I really enjoyed it was when a lone ganker was lurking in system. For me PvP has also involved negotiating unfriendly territory and getting out intact)
Gavascon
need more power inc.
#238 - 2016-03-17 09:05:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Gavascon
i read most of what's been previously posted and would add the following:
(keep in mind i've been playing for 7 years 9 months)

eve is a 100% pvp experience for ALL players.

miners shoot asteroids and defend themselves from computer generated pirates.
mission runners shoot computer generated enemies.
incursions are small gang pvp against pve computer generated invaders with superior AI
w-space is loaded with sleeper sites....also for pvp style fighting.

there is no reason for miners not to be able to fly frigates and/or cruisers to be used during a time of war.
the only thing stopping players from defending themselves is fear of loss.
yet, by defending themselves (even if they lose) they earn respect.

so many players "vanish" from the game once a war dec is dropped.
some leave their respective corporations to evade it entirely (never quite understood why those pilots don't take the war with them as corporations do when they leave an alliance - but that's another subject entirely).
the pilots that leave a corporation during war weren't loyal. leaving gets rid of the "dead wood" and makes the corp stronger because those that stay are truly dedicated to the corporations' goals.

as for war cost:
it's a graduated scale based upon corp/alliance size with a cap.
generally, we spend 50 million for 1 week of war.
what do we get?
kill mails, loot drops and sometimes a payment to end the war.
loot drops can be worth hundreds of millions.
loot drops are sold - which fuel the war chest.
profitable - you bet!

for those who "cry"/"whine" about war, think twice. because you're already shooting something of one type or another.
the fact that you are shooting another player instead of an asteroid, mission rat, sansha incursion or sleeper shouldn't make any difference to you at all.

i'd hope some of you would try to defend yourselves at a time of war.
you might like it.
it's certainly a lot more challenging than the same grind of sitting in an asteroid belt/ice field, grinding the same missions (which never seem to change) or running incursions for hours.
Drago Shouna
Doomheim
#239 - 2016-03-17 09:57:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Drago Shouna
Mr Mieyli wrote:
Taking a pos down isn't defending it, it's packing up your operations and hiding for a week. One of the many things that needs to change for wardecs to function properly is for corporations to have lasting infrastructure in space. And not just citadels I mean mining platforms to enable mining corps to get great reprocessing rates, communications towers to provide a ping when war targets enter an X jump perimeter, war towers to allow corps to declare wars, and of course citadels for markets. All these should require in space infrastructure that is vulnerable to war decs. No offense to your two man corp, but if you can't defend your structure you should pay the market taxes to someone who is able to keep a citadel defended.

Once defenders are forced to defend their assets if they want the benefits, aggressors will have an easier time getting a fight. At the same time the defenders have a natural goal in destroying the aggressors war tower (which lets them declare wars) thus ending the war. This promotes corps to take structures that enhance their style of play, making them vulnerable to attack, and requiring combat over structures to end the war.


Hide? I just carry on doing the same thing on an alt laughing at the fact that I just cost them 50mil isk, I call that a win for me isk wise :)

The last time I got wardecced it was a one man corp, I came out to play, he docked up for a week!! So don't mistake not liking something as being incapable, if I think I can compete then I'll go for it. But there's no glory whatsoever in going down in flames to a pro merc corp when you are outnumbered 5 or 10 or 20 to one, thats just plain stupid to even try. Heck it doesn't even need to be a merc corp, outnumbered is still outnumbered. Not even the most battle hardened pvp'er in EVE would try against those odds, so why the hell would anyone expect a 1 or 2 man mining/industry corp to?

But you did hit the nail on the head "aggressors will have an easier time getting a fight" and that's the crux of the problem, wardeccers can't be arsed seeking the content they say they crave, even though there's thousands of fights to be had in low and null 24/7.

But nooo, you don't want players who can form a group up and fight back. So you scream and whine to CCP to make it easier and easier in high sec, and I'll repeat..thats just pathetic, you are just the typical school playground or workplace bullies, and that is all you will ever be. there's lots and lots of ways to get fights in EVE. They go on about risk averse players, theres none as risk averse as a group of players watching an undock for a new or inexperienced player making a mistake or picking on small one man corps.

If someone put up a Citadel in the same system as me, yeah I would probably use it if the taxes made it worth it, even a jump or 2 away as well, but it's just not worth the financial risk to me as the mechanics work now. Ok it may stand unmolested for months, but then again I think in the short term they will be actively hunted down, I could well be wrong, time will tell.

Solecist Project...." They refuse to play by the rules and laws of the game and use it as excuse ..." " They don't care about how you play as long as they get to play how they want."

Welcome to EVE.
Geronimo McVain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#240 - 2016-03-17 09:58:02 UTC
Gavascon wrote:

as for war cost:
it's a graduated scale based upon corp/alliance size with a cap.
generally, we spend 50 million for 1 week of war.
what do we get?
kill mails, loot drops and sometimes a payment to end the war.
loot drops can be worth hundreds of millions.
loot drops are sold - which fuel the war chest.
profitable - you bet!

for those who "cry"/"whine" about war, think twice. because you're already shooting something of one type or another.
the fact that you are shooting another player instead of an asteroid, mission rat, sansha incursion or sleeper shouldn't make any difference to you at all.

Are the sleepers paying to have fun the way they want to play? You are confusing bots with players. Bots are contend by CCP, players are here to have fun on their own and not for you to have fun with.
The main problem is, that the defender has no way to stop a war or he might go at it and, if he wins, have his way of fun and you need to look for another target.
Just a question: If the defender hires mercs that appear on your doorstep and flatten you: would you drop the wardecc or would you keep it on to reduce your losses with some ganked ships? And what will other corps do?
If you wardecc someone the right answer in Eve is to fight it out not to play hide an seek depending on who has more bang at the moment. Are YOU using your main to ferry goods while you are deccing someone else?