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Project Discovery: Challenging & Interesting Samples

First post
Author
Galaxxis
Unicorn Rampage
#61 - 2016-03-12 22:00:29 UTC
Nick Kanjus wrote:
I'm a bit confused about this one. I might be totally wrong but when I read the description of cytoplasm it says:

Seen throughout all the whole cell, except in the nucleus (blue marker). The intensity can vary throughout the cell, and is often stronger close to the nucleus.

in other words: all the red might be green but the blue is blue without a spec of green in it.

Now I got image 100096917 (as in the screenshot here: http://i.imgur.com/cVv5kwc.png ). Basically its green all over so I figured the sample was useless. But to my surprise 50% match was on cytoplasm. Am I misunderstanding cytoplasm and reject my samples to soon. Or did 50% of the people not read the first line of the description?


I've seen ones with most people voting cytoplasm even if there's actually no green at all in the red part. It seems like everyone just picks that on every slide because they think everyone else is going to pick it as well.
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#62 - 2016-03-12 22:10:52 UTC
it's hard to say without the color filters

keep in mind that it can be cytoplasm and nucleoplasm/nucleoplasm in the same picture.

it leans towards cytoplasm, if the red area is well stained with the green marker, maybe, but not necessarily concentraded around the blue area, but can also be equally spread throughout the whole cell. add vesicles if there are bright green dots.

it leans towards nucleoplasm/nucleus if only the blue part is stained.

in any case, you need a visible difference between the two areas to mark either. if there is NO difference, pick weak or undefined.

if there is only very weak staining in the red area, don't pick cytoplasm.

i would say that's plasma membrane in your picture since the green marker spills outside of the red one. it could be more than that, but that's not really visible without the filters.

Nick Kanjus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#63 - 2016-03-12 22:17:12 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
it's hard to say without the color filters

keep in mind that it can be cytoplasm and nucleoplasm/nucleoplasm in the same picture.



I'm a bit confused about that. Nucleoplasm/nucleoplasm demands that there is some sort of green in the blue area. While cytoplasm forbids it .
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2016-03-12 22:30:36 UTC
you can have both at the same time. you just need a visible difference between the two areas to make a distinction.

i'm trying to find an example for you right now, give me a few minutes :)
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2016-03-12 23:09:08 UTC
took me a while to find a good one, but here we go:


green:
https://gyazo.com/fccb98747601e1572971c0e1fd821ffd


blue:
https://gyazo.com/0b43756d9a4dd0bfa55ea1ea4af46f99


red:
https://gyazo.com/9b0b960f63f7de49f49752ce3308b6bd


green+blue:
https://gyazo.com/2f505174801640b6add614f8c13784c7


the green marker is very well visible throughout the entire cell, however, it's much stronger in the nucleus (blue marker).

the holes in the nucleus aren't very pronounced, but if you look closely, you can see them. they match up with the green marker, therefore we are checking the "nucleoplasm" option

the consensus on this one is 100% nucleoplasm, 90% cytoplasm and 10% plasmatic membrane.

i don't think the plasmatic membrane option is correct, since the green staining can not be seen clearly outside the boundaries set by the red marker

Nick Kanjus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#66 - 2016-03-12 23:23:48 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
took me a while to find a good one, but here we go:


the consensus on this one is 100% nucleoplasm, 90% cytoplasm and 10% plasmatic membrane.

i don't think the plasmatic membrane option is correct, since the green staining can not be seen clearly outside the boundaries set by the red marker



Hey man first off thank you for taking the effort to explain this ;)

I would fully agree to you about the Nucleoplasm, your description fits the way I look at it. I also agree that the plasmatic membrane is incorrect. But I disagree to the 90% cytoplasm result.

To quote myself, cytoplasm: 'all the red might be green but the blue is blue without a spec of green in it.'
Your imagine is showing green all over the cells (including the blue area's). shouldn't that mean it is defiantly NOT cytopalsm
Galaxxis
Unicorn Rampage
#67 - 2016-03-13 00:23:37 UTC
http://i.imgur.com/131ujOT.png

Here's one with a ton of stuff going on. It has a cytokinetic bridge, an organizing center and spaghetti!!
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2016-03-13 00:36:13 UTC
@Nick

once again. you can have multiple things going on at the same time. the green staining in the blue area comes from nucleoplasm, whereas the green staining in the red area comes from cytoplasm

this is an example of pure cytoplasm (+ vesicles)

https://gyazo.com/597b71ec73291b5b1f0fce9b64ec7cd4

the faint green spots in this zoom from the middle section

https://gyazo.com/d0bf894db0a7f870772ca1caf7917045

is just from more cytoplasm that is on top or below the nucleus. (you are looking at a 2D image of a 3D structure)
Beta Maoye
#69 - 2016-03-13 02:26:21 UTC
I have a case that fit both Nucleoplasm and Nucleoli, but these two options are exclusive in the mini game.
Green and blue channel: http://uploadpie.com/LiGB6
Green channel: http://uploadpie.com/eEVpE
Blue channel: http://uploadpie.com/XqAqA
HPA Illuminator
H P A
C C P Alliance
#70 - 2016-03-13 07:28:33 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
https://i.gyazo.com/54efcad7e2f4666f6ad66988a2e17ceb.png


Was this a question? I would say it's either cell junctions of plasma membrane. I would lean towards plasma membrane because in the upper left and lower right parts you can see some staining outside the cells. Possibly both CJ+PM is correct, that's also an option :)
HPA Illuminator
H P A
C C P Alliance
#71 - 2016-03-13 07:32:01 UTC
Nick Kanjus wrote:
I'm a bit confused about this one. I might be totally wrong but when I read the description of cytoplasm it says:

Seen throughout all the whole cell, except in the nucleus (blue marker). The intensity can vary throughout the cell, and is often stronger close to the nucleus.

in other words: all the red might be green but the blue is blue without a spec of green in it.

Now I got image 100096917 (as in the screenshot here: http://i.imgur.com/cVv5kwc.png ). Basically its green all over so I figured the sample was useless. But to my surprise 50% match was on cytoplasm. Am I misunderstanding cytoplasm and reject my samples to soon. Or did 50% of the people not read the first line of the description?

EDIT: same on 100021233: http://i.imgur.com/wRnL8Sq.png that one is even fully conflicting with both Nucleus and Cytoplasm


Multiple choices are ok. And you should really try toggling all colors on/off and look at green only, green+red, green+blue.

This is probably helpful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PW5Yl6MjZjk&feature=youtu.be
HPA Illuminator
H P A
C C P Alliance
#72 - 2016-03-13 07:37:03 UTC
Beta Maoye wrote:
I have a case that fit both Nucleoplasm and Nucleoli, but these two options are exclusive in the mini game.
Green and blue channel: http://uploadpie.com/LiGB6
Green channel: http://uploadpie.com/eEVpE
Blue channel: http://uploadpie.com/XqAqA


There are some cases like that, and if the nucleoli is prominent, i'd go for nucleus + nucleoli.

In this case, I don't think the overlap is good, it looks like nucleoplasm+speckles to me (just like you've chosen).
Galaxxis
Unicorn Rampage
#73 - 2016-03-13 15:36:46 UTC
http://i.imgur.com/bAPqPdI.jpg

Oh no!!! Something ate the aggresome!
HPA Illuminator
H P A
C C P Alliance
#74 - 2016-03-13 16:04:32 UTC
lol pacman hungry
Helios Anduath
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2016-03-13 16:07:07 UTC
mmmmmm, chocolate coated aggresome
Hal Morsh
Doomheim
#76 - 2016-03-13 16:43:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Hal Morsh
Galaxxis wrote:
http://i.imgur.com/131ujOT.png

Here's one with a ton of stuff going on. It has a cytokinetic bridge, an organizing center and spaghetti!!




But I bet it tells you two of the options are wrong, and 60% choose cytoplasm, because if project discovery isn't outright glitching it's most people selecting cytoplasm.

http://i.imgur.com/kVBI0tR.jpg

Look at that crap, it's clearly a negative. But half of the awnsers are cytoplasm. I'm trying to learn this game, but it seems a lot of people aren't even insterested. I wouldn't be surprised if people were running macros.

Oh, I perfectly understand, Hal Morsh — a mission like this requires courage, skill, and heroism… qualities you are clearly lacking. Have you forgotten you're one of the bloody immortals!?

Selphentine
Pastafaris
#77 - 2016-03-13 16:45:10 UTC
Nick Kanjus wrote:
Gilbaron wrote:
took me a while to find a good one, but here we go:


the consensus on this one is 100% nucleoplasm, 90% cytoplasm and 10% plasmatic membrane.

i don't think the plasmatic membrane option is correct, since the green staining can not be seen clearly outside the boundaries set by the red marker



Hey man first off thank you for taking the effort to explain this ;)

I would fully agree to you about the Nucleoplasm, your description fits the way I look at it. I also agree that the plasmatic membrane is incorrect. But I disagree to the 90% cytoplasm result.

To quote myself, cytoplasm: 'all the red might be green but the blue is blue without a spec of green in it.'
Your imagine is showing green all over the cells (including the blue area's). shouldn't that mean it is defiantly NOT cytopalsm


As far as i know, this thing is also not purely 2 dimensional. you may have cytoplasma under/over a core, giving it a green look and way less green, but still green, in the core. (in general, not for this example.)
Nick Kanjus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#78 - 2016-03-13 17:50:38 UTC
Selphentine wrote:
took me a while to find a good one, but here we go:

As far as i know, this thing is also not purely 2 dimensional. you may have cytoplasma under/over a core, giving it a green look and way less green, but still green, in the core. (in general, not for this example.)


with that mindset things would start making more sense. If I'm allowed to hide the green with the blue then it could indeed be both at the same time. I still find it somewhat strange but seeing as most people do it and that most results of the test server where correct....I must have been wrong.

Thanks to you (and the others) for all the help :)
Beta Maoye
#79 - 2016-03-14 18:08:51 UTC
I think this slide has two signals, microtubule organizing center and centrosome, not just microtubule organizing center.
RBG: http://uploadpie.com/onin4
Zoom 1: http://uploadpie.com/IHDCU
Zoom 2: http://uploadpie.com/wRlX5
Zoom 3: http://uploadpie.com/VlkIU
Helios Anduath
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2016-03-14 19:09:56 UTC
Beta Maoye wrote:
I think this slide has two signals, microtubule organizing center and centrosome, not just microtubule organizing center.
RBG: http://uploadpie.com/onin4
Zoom 1: http://uploadpie.com/IHDCU
Zoom 2: http://uploadpie.com/wRlX5
Zoom 3: http://uploadpie.com/VlkIU


They don't really look like Centrosome because they are not two very well defined spots side by side. I would just have gone MTOC for this.