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The end of Hybrid buff

Author
Uppsy Daisy
State War Academy
Caldari State
#461 - 2012-01-08 11:12:19 UTC
Biced wrote:
DEIMOS (spell it right ffs).


Methinks someone has missed the joke....
Biced
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#462 - 2012-01-08 11:30:56 UTC
Uppsy Daisy wrote:
Biced wrote:
DEIMOS (spell it right ffs).


Methinks someone has missed the joke....


/me wants the joke explained please.
I hear people on comms say it wrong all the time as well...
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#463 - 2012-01-08 12:30:47 UTC
Biced wrote:
/me wants the joke explained please.
I hear people on comms say it wrong all the time as well...


DIE MOST

Mostly dies. Dies mostly. Etc.
Biced
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#464 - 2012-01-08 13:01:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Biced
Mfume Apocal wrote:
Biced wrote:
/me wants the joke explained please.
I hear people on comms say it wrong all the time as well...


DIE MOST

Mostly dies. Dies mostly. Etc.


I see what you did there. (learn something new everyday)

its a browler that does close to 1k dps. Twisted
when it gets you at point blank he is the on laughing.
though its no my play style and i dont like the ship at all.

tbh like the rest of the eve players i think that tier2 bc out class hacs in MOST cases
Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#465 - 2012-01-08 20:04:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Hungry Eyes
the remnants of HAC role (sniping) has been stolen by tier 3 bc's.tier 2 BC's nullified close to medium range HAC setups years ago. all that is left for HAC's now is ARMOUR HACS!!!! with logi support, which is basically just the Zealot and the gimped Deimos. this is yet another example of how CCP doesnt think.

as for Gallente pilots being crybabies, this is generally incorrect. the people you see in top ranks of BC have accepted the limited, niche role of Gallente ships. this involves players who fly AC Myrms, solo blaster Megas, Comets, and maybe a few others. ive made Gallente work for me, but i am entitled to more. the people making noise about Gallente being teh suck are the ones advocating for interracial BALANCE. every race should have ships that can fit into a wide range of roles. Gallente ships simply have not been a representation of this.

in fact, it is easily argued that Minmatar are still the best brawlers. Hurricanes, Cynabals, Machariels, Maels, nano Pests. the best ships in the game for most situations in the game. need i say more? nope, argument is done. i still fit AC's on my Myrm and will continue to do so until rails or null are buffed. ok so Gallente are still the second best brawlers, and what else? nothing.
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#466 - 2012-01-08 22:39:49 UTC
Hungry Eyes wrote:
the remnants of HAC role (sniping) has been stolen by tier 3 bc's.tier 2 BC's nullified close to medium range HAC setups years ago. all that is left for HAC's now is ARMOUR HACS!!!! with logi support, which is basically just the Zealot and the gimped Deimos. this is yet another example of how CCP doesnt think.


AHACs are pretty bad nowadays, everyone brings webs.

Quote:
in fact, it is easily argued that Minmatar are still the best brawlers. Hurricanes, Cynabals, Machariels, Maels, nano Pests. the best ships in the game for most situations in the game. need i say more? nope, argument is done. i still fit AC's on my Myrm and will continue to do so until rails or null are buffed. ok so Gallente are still the second best brawlers, and what else? nothing.


When you say "brawl" in this context, do you mean "fighting within scram/web/neut range"? Because that's what comes to my mind and almost all the Minmatar ships in that list are worse than their Gallente counterpart in that situation. Cane is debatable, Cyna is worse than a Vigilant hullbump range, Mach worse than Vindi, nano-Pest especially bad at 0 compared to... literally any armor tanked BS.

Also: how are you going to fit rails on your Myrm?
Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#467 - 2012-01-09 00:05:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Hungry Eyes
i guess i meant anywhere between close to medium range. Machs, Cynabals, nano Pests, Canes can all dictate ranges on their counterparts. medium range is where it's at (20-50km). point blank engagements rarely occur. maybe once in a blue moon, then Liang writes blogs about it Lol within scram range, Gallente rule, I'll give you that.

the problem is, AC's get the best of both worlds. you can brawl ok, and do fantastically at medium range. all this with one turret type. how does this make sense? the only thing required to make this game decent once again is to simply nerf something relating to AC's. falloff, TE's, ship bonuses, whatever. AC's are the faceroll of EVE.

unfortunately, i wont be fitting rails on my Myrm until theyre buffed. you can fit 200's on a shield Myrm, but theyre outperformed by 425 AC's Lol even with the null buff, 425's >>>> Neutrons (unless at point blank).

TLDR: AC's OP, fly Matar to win, flying point blank range ships is a huge gamble and only fail fleets fail against these boats.
Cyzlaki
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#468 - 2012-01-09 01:24:34 UTC
med and large hybrids actually track things inside optimal now.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#469 - 2012-01-09 15:13:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Tanya Powers
Cyzlaki wrote:
med and large hybrids actually track things inside optimal now.


Still have far too high fitting requirements and atm while waiting for ship individual tweaks rails setups are fake and still the choice i'll never make over even meta 3 Arty (I can use T2's OC).
This being said yes, they can track now and that's half of the work done.

Someone posted the interest about using alpha over rof, you guys should take a close look at to understand why it's completely impossible as it stands to make rails good for something else than pew mission rats.

They're in need of long range ammo with lot more dps or gun it self dmg modifier to get some interesting alpha, thing is that for rails to become interesting they are in need of something they will never get, even lasers that have the second best alpha in game became almost unused, there's a reason for that and that's not only the hull/guns price.

EDIT: the new Null buff witch is about +40% range instead of +25% should give a nice improvement to the number of situations where Diemos can man up despite his slow brick top speed. Hope more tweaks about the ship now are on the way like take away that high slot and either give another mid or another low.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#470 - 2012-01-09 19:03:22 UTC
Hungry Eyes wrote:
point blank engagements rarely occur. maybe once in a blue moon, then Liang writes blogs about it Lol within scram range, Gallente rule, I'll give you that.


You know why you think that close range engagements never happen? Its because you never pursue them. I do, and for me its just about every fight.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Jill Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#471 - 2012-01-09 21:31:51 UTC
Rails:
Optimal
DPS*
Barely noticable tracking

Artillery:
Falloff
Interchangable damage types
No cap
A **** ton more alpha

*The DPS increase is so small the interchangable damage type probably makes artillery better DPS as well or at least about equal.

Are gallente ships so incredibly good their weapons has to be worse? Maybe their bonus structure would just be overpowering if paired with a strong weapon system. It feels like I'm forgetting something that's good about rails though because surely it cannot be this blatantly broken?
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#472 - 2012-01-09 21:51:15 UTC
A few comments:
- High optimal vs High falloff is heavily weighted in favor of the high optimal ship. Falloff equates to not only a second chance to miss but also a lower overall hit quality. In theory both of these are accounted for in damage charts so you shouldn't be walking into this totally blind.
- I think you're underestimating how debilitating ****** tracking can be. And artillery already had the worst tracking even before rails got buffed.
- Its unfair to attribute selectable damage types to artillery unless you're talking about quite short ranges. Furthermore, its dramatically incorrect to say that you can always use the appropriate ammo with artillery - oftentimes you're stuck with what you have loaded.
- Rails are made for a style of combat that simply doesn't exist anymore, primarily because of the simplicity of on-grid probing.

Basically: rails should have better DPS and be able to apply that DPS better than artillery. Artillery should have higher alpha and semi-selectable damage types (depending on range). Not saying that rails don't need another nudge (because I just don't know), but I am saying your analysis could use some help. :)

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Xenuria
#473 - 2012-01-10 00:12:53 UTC
Confirming I am a carebear and wish for my blasters to do more damage.
Eveess
ChemiKals
Xenta.
#474 - 2012-01-30 11:02:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Eveess
Fade Azura wrote:
kingwood stfu your killboard is complete crap ... mine is way better ,,, you lost 50 ships in like 2-3 months bro ... just because i dont play eve everyday and have a real life instead of being a tool like you who get their ass kicked daily in low sec. ... gtfo noob .... come and challenge me anyday an ill put my boot in your ass



i would like to step up here as his ceo and say sorry for any offence he may have caused this is not the way my corp is run however fade your are required to attend this fight since you asked for this. any further questions please do contact me in game

god FML i cant spell today
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#475 - 2012-01-30 11:23:22 UTC
Oh. ****.

/respect

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#476 - 2012-01-30 14:24:15 UTC
eveess wrote:
Fade Azura wrote:
kingwood stfu your killboard is complete crap ... mine is way better ,,, you lost 50 ships in like 2-3 months bro ... just because i dont play eve everyday and have a real life instead of being a tool like you who get their ass kicked daily in low sec. ... gtfo noob .... come and challenge me anyday an ill put my boot in your ass



i would like to step up here as his ceo and say sorry for any offence he may have caused this is not the way my corp is run however fade your are required to attend this fight since you asked for this. any further questions please do contact me in game

god FML i cant spell today



I wanna watch lol.

Kings has something or a reputation for some reason.
Eveess
ChemiKals
Xenta.
#477 - 2012-01-30 14:31:03 UTC
Onictus wrote:
eveess wrote:
Fade Azura wrote:
kingwood stfu your killboard is complete crap ... mine is way better ,,, you lost 50 ships in like 2-3 months bro ... just because i dont play eve everyday and have a real life instead of being a tool like you who get their ass kicked daily in low sec. ... gtfo noob .... come and challenge me anyday an ill put my boot in your ass



i would like to step up here as his ceo and say sorry for any offence he may have caused this is not the way my corp is run however fade your are required to attend this fight since you asked for this. any further questions please do contact me in game

god FML i cant spell today



I wanna watch lol.

Kings has something or a reputation for some reason.



5m isk a ticket :D
mecubed
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#478 - 2012-01-30 18:48:30 UTC  |  Edited by: mecubed
Goose99 wrote:
Sebastian N Cain wrote:
kyrv wrote:
Funny Thing is Gallente were FOTM years back but now everyone's got Gallente they will never be AS FOTM and you know thats the only thing the experienced players are pineing for.

Muhahahaahaha.


No, the problem is that something like FOTM does actually exist.
I sometimes wonder about how it´s possible to screw balancing up this badly. It´s like they have no concept of the whole thing, what they are doing about it and what results they want to achieve. I could do it better without putting in too much effort.


Winmatar Wins!Big smile


Yes we know Minmatar pretty much has overwhelming superiority in almost every ship class.. Yes we know CCP gave them an Eve version of Afirmative Action.
mecubed
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#479 - 2012-01-30 18:53:28 UTC
ElCholo wrote:
Smabs wrote:
Gallente ships are already the second fastest in the game and are so close to agility compared to minmatar that it's barely noticeable. How much faster do they need to be?


They won't be happy till they have the speed of Minmatar, the range of Caldari, and the DPS of... what they have already.



Gallente pilots dont want the range of caldari. We just want the faster speed, since our guns require close range..

We know Minmatar pilots such as yourself would hate to have ships that can actually compare to yours.

If caldari range was such a game changer, why is it that you only see 1 caldari ship on fleet in mass and the rest are refusefd by people to be used in pvp...

Yet Minmatar ships are every where you look...Hmm ever stop to think everyone wants you all nerfed because CCP went way overboard on the buffs?

Dont tell me, its racist to be equal, right?
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#480 - 2012-01-30 18:58:41 UTC
mecubed wrote:
ElCholo wrote:
Smabs wrote:
Gallente ships are already the second fastest in the game and are so close to agility compared to minmatar that it's barely noticeable. How much faster do they need to be?


They won't be happy till they have the speed of Minmatar, the range of Caldari, and the DPS of... what they have already.



Gallente pilots dont want the range of caldari. We just want the faster speed, since our guns require close range..

We know Minmatar pilots such as yourself would hate to have ships that can actually compare to yours.

If caldari range was such a game changer, why is it that you only see 1 caldari ship on fleet in mass and the rest are refusefd by people to be used in pvp...

Yet Minmatar ships are every where you look...Hmm ever stop to think everyone wants you all nerfed because CCP went way overboard on the buffs?

Dont tell me, its racist to be equal, right?


LOL, I wouldn't call Gallente particularly gimped against Minmatar these days. Try getting out of your Tempest more often (or out more often at all) and you'll see what I mean :)

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.