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Bye bye watch lists
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FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#61 - 2016-03-07 11:44:11 UTC
Nat Silverguard wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Ashterothi wrote:
The arguments that people make to keep the watchlist are exactly my reasons why it is best to remove it.


Yes, go figure, just today a player I hadn't seen in months has logged in and I've learned of it, so I've invited her to our chat channel. Absolutely terrible, until when will we suffer the injustice of knowing that a buddy is back just because we added him to watchlist years ago? Next tuesday, you say? Roll


if you two are really buddies then you should have been in his watchlist, yes?

coming this new release, you'll still see him go online, so, what's the problem? What?

When i returned to the game four months ago, quite a few people noticed i was online for the first time in two years and got in touch. i didn't have them on my watch list because I'd never thought to need that particular piece of information when i was playing.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Smitty Uitra
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#62 - 2016-03-07 11:47:18 UTC
Ashterothi wrote:
The arguments that people make to keep the watchlist are exactly my reasons why it is best to remove it.



Because it's part of their content? Because it lets someone know as soon as they log in if they should stay logged in and hunt someone or close the client and go play something else?
Mr Mieyli
Doomheim
#63 - 2016-03-07 12:12:16 UTC
Smitty Uitra wrote:
Ashterothi wrote:
The arguments that people make to keep the watchlist are exactly my reasons why it is best to remove it.



Because it's part of their content? Because it lets someone know as soon as they log in if they should stay logged in and hunt someone or close the client and go play something else?


Or you could stop hunting specific war targets (I'm assuming this complaint is from a highsec wardeccer) and go to lowsec where everyone and their gran is happy to give you content. Why do you need to know when a particular player logs in, unless you're friends in which case you still can see.

This post brought to you by CCP's alpha forum alt initiative. Playing the eve forums has never come cheaper.
Valkin Mordirc
#64 - 2016-03-07 12:30:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Valkin Mordirc
Mr Mieyli wrote:
Smitty Uitra wrote:
Ashterothi wrote:
The arguments that people make to keep the watchlist are exactly my reasons why it is best to remove it.



Because it's part of their content? Because it lets someone know as soon as they log in if they should stay logged in and hunt someone or close the client and go play something else?


Or you could stop hunting specific war targets (I'm assuming this complaint is from a highsec wardeccer) and go to lowsec where everyone and their gran is happy to give you content. Why do you need to know when a particular player logs in, unless you're friends in which case you still can see.



Because EVE is a sandbox and this is killing a style of play that has been in game for a very long time. It's a flat nerf, that is compensating for anything, even though in my obviously biased opinions, it needs to be thought out.


It hurts Highsec and Wormhole Space. It can't be taken at such a broad stroke as it is.


EDIT:

No one is saying this change should happen. I'm certainly not. From A Null side of things. This makes perfect and logical sense. But the nerf is affecting more than just nullsec side of thing.

A responding buff need to happen. The easiest would be with Locater agents.
#DeleteTheWeak
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#65 - 2016-03-07 14:07:32 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Ashterothi wrote:
The arguments that people make to keep the watchlist are exactly my reasons why it is best to remove it.


Yes, go figure, just today a player I hadn't seen in months has logged in and I've learned of it, so I've invited her to our chat channel. Absolutely terrible, until when will we suffer the injustice of knowing that a buddy is back just because we added him to watchlist years ago? Next tuesday, you say? Roll


If it's your buddy, there should not be any issue since you would add mutually...
Kamahl Daikun
State War Academy
Caldari State
#66 - 2016-03-07 16:13:46 UTC
Primary This Rifter wrote:
You can see wardeccers in system, why do you need to know if they're online?

Need to move to another system? Use a scout. Hell, a T1 frigate should suffice, you are in highsec after all.


Because there's a substantially smaller threat of being ganked when they're offline. Seemed like common sense to me.
Also, has it ever occurred to you that not everyone is multiboxing several accounts? Just curious.

My alt is in a small PvE corp. We get wardec'd somewhat often. Knowing when they're online is pretty important for various reasons:
1) If x is online, avoid these systems
2) Fit for PvP until you get to your destination
3) x usually flies this, beware of y

There are more reasons but I'm sure you get the point. If the watch list is unnecessary, I'd argue kspace local chat is unnecessary. You have probes and dscan, so use them and stop relying on local.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#67 - 2016-03-07 16:34:28 UTC
Kamahl Daikun wrote:


There are more reasons but I'm sure you get the point. If the watch list is unnecessary, I'd argue kspace local chat is unnecessary. You have probes and dscan, so use them and stop relying on local.


With that argument, we should remove probes and D-SCAN since you can get that info from the overview.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#68 - 2016-03-07 16:40:32 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Kamahl Daikun wrote:


There are more reasons but I'm sure you get the point. If the watch list is unnecessary, I'd argue kspace local chat is unnecessary. You have probes and dscan, so use them and stop relying on local.


With that argument, we should remove probes and D-SCAN since you can get that info from the overview.


But then you will have to remove the overview, because you can see when people are shooting at you, and your ship's explosion is all the illumination you will ever need .Big smile
Negativly
GO' R0V
Pandemic Horde
#69 - 2016-03-07 16:52:12 UTC
I've never used the watchlist....could care less.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#70 - 2016-03-07 16:54:30 UTC
Droidster wrote:
I think the main issue here is not really the watch lists, it's that EVE is already too pvp centric as it is and the watch list thing is disturbing the balance even more.

I have a friend that just joined and he is basically terrified all the time and telling me how its "not fun". I try explaining to him that nobody is going to bother to blow up his newbie ship, but it doesn't help. This guy is not a "carebear". He always plays PVP in other games.

Most of the ship destruction in the game is in empire which is not the way it is supposed to be.

If the pvp balance were less extreme, I think people would be concerned about the watchlist issue a lot less, but as things are the let's-kill-every-autopilot and wardec every single 3-player corp in EVE mentality is driving people away from the game. Its at the point where there are more wolves than there are elk.


Hahahaha


Seriously. EVE is a PvP game, and thus cant have enough PvP. Hell, even CCP advertise it as a PvP game.

And high sec is never stated to be safe. People just have to be creative with the PvP there.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Kamahl Daikun
State War Academy
Caldari State
#71 - 2016-03-07 18:16:24 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Kamahl Daikun wrote:


There are more reasons but I'm sure you get the point. If the watch list is unnecessary, I'd argue kspace local chat is unnecessary. You have probes and dscan, so use them and stop relying on local.


With that argument, we should remove probes and D-SCAN since you can get that info from the overview.


But then you will have to remove the overview, because you can see when people are shooting at you, and your ship's explosion is all the illumination you will ever need .Big smile


Let's just remove the UI.
We can pretend like we're navigating our ship using DOS instead.

this.Warp(this.currentSystem.Stargates[0]);
Pandora Carrollon
Provi Rapid Response
#72 - 2016-03-07 18:29:59 UTC
Wouldn't this change go both ways? I mean, sure, you can't see if the bad guy is actually on-line, but they can't watch you either.

Nobody could take offense to some post I made (seems to happen) and put me on their watch list to go find me and hunt me down and kill me just because they don't like my Avatar or something. (Yeah, stop trying to punch me into your watch-lists guys... right now, I mean it... stop... Lol )

Should we really care about a War Dec? I could still grab my rookie ship and go play without a care in the world. So they kill me, so what? So you pod me... boo hoo (still don't get why players do this but it's another discussion). I got torched last night and it's just some more time mining to earn the ship back and then go buy and outfit a new one. (Our corp is just starting to earn ISK, so it's pretty much mine time).

I'm finding myself more and more, caring less and less, about being popped. I guess if I was flying 500mil ISK ships, I might care more, but if you're under a War Dec, go fly something cheaper. I think it would be funny if you could get a whole bunch of buddies together and go pounce on the other guy with a ton of rookie frigates...

I'm saying this as a primarily PvE player, I just don't care what the PvP'ers do. It's yawn and move on. Earning ISK is fun for me, so losing a ship (or two, or three) is all part of earning ISK. Am I bummed for the lost time, yeah, maybe, but I forget that fast because a new ship is a chance to learn from my mistakes and to maybe fly something new to me.

8 Golden Rules of EVE • EVE is entirely PvP
Bembi Bimbo
Doomheim
#73 - 2016-03-07 19:00:27 UTC
CCP, while this change will have little effect to large alliances it will greatly affect small entities. We feel small scale pvp in the world ruled by super coalitions is getting less and less love :(

Watchlist was great tool for small scale pvpers be it in 0.0, wormholes or high and lowsec. You can't just take it away from us!!! We understand it had to be removed in its current form, but please replace it by some other tool !!!

We need to have some intel tool to know if our enemies are active or not, nobody wants to sacrifice time while trying to fight ghosts that never log in!

It may not be a watchlist, maybe it could be a tool requiring some skill, maybe a mini game, whatever! It could give just an approximate info about a character, maybe not an exact info if character is logged in or not, but delayed info for example.

CCP, please think about it again, this change must be developed better before actually releasing it!
ramsesx1
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#74 - 2016-03-07 19:30:55 UTC
In my opinion, I'm glad to see it go. I think the changes are the way it should have been all along.


The only way someone should know I'm rolling out of bed is if they have eyes on me some how (being in system when I log in) or paying a 3rd party (locator) to stake out my place.

Personally, I'd even like to see local chat delayed, like in WH space.
Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
#75 - 2016-03-07 19:33:33 UTC
While it will be interesting to see how people in HS adapt to the loss of Intel, I'm more concerned about the social aspect of it. There are ways of going around to contacting someone but it makes it more difficult and challenging than simply opening a convo. In a highly social game I think this will have dire and far reaching consequences. There needs to be an option to always show your status to others if you choose so. I was under the impression that they were going to do that but patch notes say otherwise

The CSM XI Election are now open until March 25th, 2016. Consider Niko Lorenzio for CSM XI.

CSM matters, your voice matters, your vote matters!
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#76 - 2016-03-07 19:37:20 UTC
Niko Lorenzio wrote:
While it will be interesting to see how people in HS adapt to the loss of Intel, I'm more concerned about the social aspect of it. There are ways of going around to contacting someone but it makes it more difficult and challenging than simply opening a convo. In a highly social game I think this will have dire and far reaching consequences. There needs to be an option to always show your status to others if you choose so. I was under the impression that they were going to do that but patch notes say otherwise

That's literally the watch lists only function as of tomorrow, add the people you want, if they care enough they will do likewise.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
#77 - 2016-03-07 21:06:27 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Niko Lorenzio wrote:
While it will be interesting to see how people in HS adapt to the loss of Intel, I'm more concerned about the social aspect of it. There are ways of going around to contacting someone but it makes it more difficult and challenging than simply opening a convo. In a highly social game I think this will have dire and far reaching consequences. There needs to be an option to always show your status to others if you choose so. I was under the impression that they were going to do that but patch notes say otherwise

That's literally the watch lists only function as of tomorrow, add the people you want, if they care enough they will do likewise.

Not the same thing. Need to have an option to be visible regardless of contacts.

The CSM XI Election are now open until March 25th, 2016. Consider Niko Lorenzio for CSM XI.

CSM matters, your voice matters, your vote matters!
Sadr Dillinger
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#78 - 2016-03-07 21:11:35 UTC
Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#79 - 2016-03-07 21:16:42 UTC
Niko Lorenzio wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Niko Lorenzio wrote:
While it will be interesting to see how people in HS adapt to the loss of Intel, I'm more concerned about the social aspect of it. There are ways of going around to contacting someone but it makes it more difficult and challenging than simply opening a convo. In a highly social game I think this will have dire and far reaching consequences. There needs to be an option to always show your status to others if you choose so. I was under the impression that they were going to do that but patch notes say otherwise

That's literally the watch lists only function as of tomorrow, add the people you want, if they care enough they will do likewise.

Not the same thing. Need to have an option to be visible regardless of contacts.
Yeah. I often find myself saying "hit me up when you see me online". So much for that.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#80 - 2016-03-07 21:31:17 UTC
Alea wrote:
Droidster wrote:

Whoa, whoa, whoa. You mean there is PVP content going on in hisec. I've been in a 3 player corp with my alts for years. How do I get these "people" to wardec me? Is there a form I have to fill out or something?


Dec the wardeccers, but if you're competent at pvp they'll just dock up if they can't greatly outnumber you.


Fighting back only gets you more decs, because that's how starved for content they are.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!