EVE General Discussion

You're misunderstanding, again. Having someone in the same system is giving you more information than WL. Here, let me break it down for you:

Scout in system:
1) You know if they're online
2) You know which system they're in
3) Infinitely easier access to finding out where in system they are
4) What they're flying
5) etc

Watchlist:
1) They're online

The only argument for supporting the removal of the watchlist seems to be "hurr free intel durr" and yet, I don't see any of you petitioning for the removal of local. It's definitely discussed but I see no formal effort to have the change pushed through.
In reality, the WL offered people a means of not wasting their damn time by hunting or hiding from someone that may not even be there.



I'm going to just boil this down to: "Someone knows I'm online, my gameplay is ruined. Of the vast universe that comprises Eve, this information is all a person needs to know everything about me and this is effectively ruining my gameplay experience."

Not gonna lie, I find this ridiculous.
Such an outspoken group that was never outspoken before this change was announced.

You're of course welcome to dismiss it in any way you like, I can't and won't try to stop you from being completely wrong, but I'll gladly continue asking why you think things that other supporters of this mechanic are telling you obviously aren't true (it's only useful for supercap hunting). Further you're suggesting making watchlist consensual somehow means other consensual forms of intel need removed? How does that make sense?

I too find your reasoning ridiculous, it has nothing to do with being outspoken and everything to do with calling out hyperbolic BS.

The watchlist was very useful for me when banking poker games for EOH. I kept the high stakes heads-up players on the watchlist. If someone came looking for a game, I could easily see who was online that was likely to accept the challenge and contact them accordingly.

This was one of EVE's best social features. Now it's essentially useless.

In a community that typically mocks people until they quit whenever someone raises a concern about nonconsentual interaction, I'm shocked that people must now consent for others to simply know they're online.

So I just checked my various alts, and I have a total of ten killrights among them. Yes, these killrights were wanted. It gives me something to do when wars are slow.

Here's the problem: I now have no practical means by which to hunt down these people. I can run locates on them, but without the ability to know when these individuals are online, it's going to require me to post an alt in the system they logged out in, and THEN I have to be present when they log back in and undock to know whether they've left system or logged out.

This is why I tried to propose that watch lists be considered consensual in the case of war or killrights. because this is a HUGE stealth nerf to killrights.

What if that scary-bad-man is now using the whatchlist changes, to log out and back in, in belts. Tell me how that is reasonable towards me that he can use log out and log in as part of there pvp technique. At least the whatchlist took that part of the game away.

a very long time ago ship spinning was removed from the game.
a short time later, an apology letter was sent to everyone by the CEO of CCP and ship spinning was returned.

same is going to be true with watch lists.
this new "change" is for the birds and needs to be undone.

i call BS, how hard it is for your high roller customers to add you up as well, lol?

I can understand the reasoning behind the watch list being changed however it needs to balanced against something else.

We have locator agents for a reason. If watch lists have to go increase the usability of watch lists.

1. Remove the wait time to reuse them.
2. Increase the information they give to include if they are active currently (online)

That way it is not free intel for everyone there will be a cost.

I have seen and heard people say the new system is more realistic. You are playing internet spaceships!

There are more pressing and unbalanced issues in eve than the watch list in my opinion. The ease and regularity of ganking for example. Odd that watch lists would be the priority.

Oh those long pages about wardecs.

Now there's one more incentive to actually dec for objective and one less incentive to dec just so that you can shoot random people for next to no good reason. Boo hoo.

Instead of complaining about watchlists, you'd better ask CCP to provide more of said objectives and better incentives to actually deploy those vulnerable objectives in space. Carrots, sticks and all that jazz.

If you have spent a few last weeks watching more than just watchlists blinking red and green, you already know that CCP are planning to pressure traders and other station service users (including explorers, miners, industrialists, corp holders and anyone else who use services and markets, so just about everyone) into citadels instead of stations, and that may be just the beginning. I don't see a problem doing that with hisec PvE'rs and whoever else live there.

Services there are supposed to be better, and citadels themselves are supposed to be income source for owners. Those are objectives and targets. And if what we know about them is anything to go by, properly setup citadel is supposed to have potential to be lethal to anyone who thinks it will be funny to grind it AFK. They are also larger investments than POS, and in order to be more useful they rely more on other folks knowing that owner won't just abandon it at first scare, so people may just as well decide to actively defend them.

I hope you understand what I'm getting to.

And who knows, maybe EVE will enter its third decade with such currently unheard of thing as internet spaceship violence that actually f*cking means something.

I'd remind you of that whenever CCP removes a years-old tool that enabled an entire gameplay style that you enjoyed, but I doubt I'll remember to do so.

I've already adapted and am preparing to take a new approach to how I choose my targets. The rest will do the same. But we've raised some very important points about how the watch list was used that CCP didn't seem to consider in this decision. I'm especially disappointed that I no have zero tools in game to determine whether a person I have killrights against is a viable target. I now have to spam locates and push scout alts all over the place just to find out if they're even active. It's a huge unintentional nerf to bounty hunting.