Warfare & Tactics

I don't mind dieing (I'm so good at it), but its frustrating when, even with skill, and skill points, . . . something seems an inevitable failure.

Running through NPC Null Sec, I've died twice now when I gated through RIGHT INTO a Warp Interdiction Sphere. As I understand it, your position on the "other side" is a random point in the 12k sphere around the gate. And since WIS's can't cover an entire exit-sphere, there is a certain amount of good/bad luck involved re:where it is, and where you land.

Lets say I'm scouting ahead for a group of 10. We can't have 9 scouts and one DPS. Its more like 1-2 scouts and 8-9 DPS to survive encounters. Since each gate crossing for the CovOps Scout is a Russian-Roulette gamble that I'll land in a WIS and die, after 10-20 hops through Null Sec, I'm almost certain to die by landing in one. Now the group is deep in Null Sec, with 1 (or more likely NO) scouts. How do they continue?

Even if I jump through and survive, the remaining 8-9 of my group, may some (or all) randomly land in a WIS setup within the 12k sphere of the gate.

I don't see how death isn't near inevitable for the scout.
I don't see how even if I survive the jump, I can assure some of the party won't get trapped/killed if they have bad landing luck.
I don't see how the party continues, when the scout(s) have been killed.

If the only answer is, "You can't avoid a WIS placed at the gate, if you have the bad luck to jump into it." then, there is no point in scouting, just bring all DPS and try and mow down the competition.

Am I just missing some finer point of advanced evasive scouting?
Please enlighten me. (Because Viator's and Prowler's are getting expensive.)

How did WIS killed you twice? I have never heard that WIS can kill you. It only prevent you from warping away.

Now let's assume you speak about gate campers sitting next to this WIS. Ok.

1. Once i was traveling around the Universe in my stelthbomber. Got into 30+++ gate camp with bubbles around the gates. Left it alive despite 2 or more interceptors with drone support tried to uncloak and catch me. So not each WIS is end of the road.
2. If you roam with 9-10 people gank why you are scared by gate campers? After all you went to roam to find fights don't you?

MWD's work just fine in bubbles;

Thats why most null fits use MWD's.

If your jumping through a gate, and land in a bubble, your scout will need the cloak+MWD trick to either burn out of the bubble or back to gate.

You can still die if the gate is camped with a proficient crew, but thats eve.

To avoid landing in bubbles on gates while warping in the system, bounce to other places in space before warping to the gate.

Bubbles only work within a certain set of vectors, so if, for example, you warp to a point 300km above a gate that has a bubble at zero. You will land at your point 300km above as intended.

If you just try warping in at 100km, the bubble will pull you in.

WIS prevents warping, it doesn't do anything to a MWD. Either run to the edge of the bubble or back to the gate. Choose direction, double click >> MWD >> cloak, only leaves you visible for a second or two. Just make sure you wait out the timer before you start if burning back to the gate (is it still 30s?). Practice someplace safe.

Being in a fast cloaky scout ship you can get through most camps untouched.

It sounds like you're not quite doing something right when it comes time to uncloak and move away from teh gate.

When you jump through and the grid loads, wait. Check the grid. You've got plenty of time; 60 seconds of cloak as long as you don't move. What's waiting there? Obviously you don't want to move towards ships. And you want to keep an eye out for insta locking ships like interceptors and ships that are 2500m or closer to you will keep you from cloaking.

Once you've mentally mapped the path you're going to take to get out of the bubble, get ready. As soon as you double click in space to begin moving, keep an eye on your speed indicator, as soon as the numbers start going up, cloak. Don't click too fast or you'll get the "you can't activate module because you're [gate] cloaked." Count to 1 and then click your MWD. If you click the MWD first, your sig radius will blow up and you'll be insta locked and pointed. If you wait too long, the MWD won't activate and the camp will be sprinting towards you to try and decloak you.

Don't try to warp away from a nosec gate when you jump through. Instead, align to your warp target and do the cloak/MWD thing. If a bubbler is cloaked on the gate and you begin the warp sequence, he uncloaks, pops the bubble, your warp sequence cancels, your speed drops to zero, and the other cloaked members of the gate camp will be rushing towards you to decloak you, and they'll succeed while you're trying to get your speed back up.

Check out Agony Unleashed classes and their wiki. They've opened the wiki up to the general public and there is TONS of good info for the uninitiated.

That's not entirely true. Align times, agility, and top speed are different for covops vs cloaky haulers. Plus campers are much more likely to make a concerted effort to kill a cloaky hauler than they would a covops. It's also worth noting that they're bigger, which means they are slightly more susceptible to being decloaked. With cargo expanders the problem is seriously compounded.

Or coming in from a celestial that the drag bubble is not set up to pull in from.

hint: anomolies are handy and tend to be off-plane and random.

I've been doing well once alive within the system. On the path's I'm using, I have multiple safe points and points around the gates, close enough to warp to to see if they're camped (or where the bubbles are to navigate around) but far enough to actually then warp to the gate itself when i see the clear path.

Sure, I suppose you can put a bubble anywhere, but the region between a 200km pt from the gate, and say 400k, is so vast, if you pick a point not inline with another regular object, getting to/from the gates, and gating out isn't an issue.

It was only the unavoidable WIS at gate in that's given me trouble.

Fair point on the Prowler != Cheetah. Yes, other websites made that point when discussing using Iterons as haulers and the speed negatives of improved vs prototype cloaking. That the align times are typically so bad, (and being huge) the lock times so quick, they're essentially DOA. Although perhaps not as bad, the same would apply to Prowler/Viator/....

I just couldn't imagine the "infinite number of warp points' of a WIS, wouldn't affect a MWD. Plus, there are also somewhat misleading sites, mentioning the T3 (usually a Tengu) with an Interdiction Nullifier and CovOps fittings. But, now, I suppose they're talking about directly warping to the distant object, and not MWD driving out of the bubble to warp.

Ok, time to drag out the Cheetah(s), practice the MWD+Cloak and then try and escape some bubbles.

OK.



Grab the next smallest ship, safe up and log while you grab a new one...there are options...



So let me get this straight, because I'm not sure I do. You hop in ahead of your main group. You yell, "OH **** OH ****!" on coms, and then everyone jumps in after you?

I think you might have a fail FC, not a problem with any game mechanic.



It is indeed dangerous, and it takes practice. You might not survive the first couple times. But has anyone taught you the MWD->cloak trick?

You're in a bubble, you got 20 guys waiting to pop you and probably circling trying to decloak you.

1. Be fast, once they start getting into the circle pattern they're closer to you and your survival chances go down.
2. Pick a point that appears to be devoid of enemy ships.
2a. Preferably something that places you outside the bubble quickly and gives you a near immediate line to a celestial that won't put you back in it when you warp. Doesn't always work out that way but usually does.
3. If there's an inty nearby you might wait for him to get out further...but you can't wait forever.
4. double click so you move in that direction. Count, 1,2. Click your MWD and then your cloak.

This turns on your MWD for one cycle and cloaks you as quickly as possible. The inty's will immediately bee line to your position so watch them. Nobody else is a danger unless you ignored point 2.



This is where I begin to think your FC is fail. The whole point of having a scout is to NOT jump into a camp. If your group is just insta-jumping after you regardless of intel...your group is being stupid and yeah, there's no point in the scout. The scout is the only one likely to survive.

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If the only answer is, "You can't avoid a WIS placed at the gate, if you have the bad luck to jump into it." then, there is no point in scouting, just bring all DPS and try and mow down the competition.

Am I just missing some finer point of advanced evasive scouting?
Please enlighten me. (Because Viator's and Prowler's are getting expensive.)

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Troll post? You're not really scouting in a Prowler....right?

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