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Is EVE now P2W?

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IronBank
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2016-02-29 22:02:02 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Since a p2w game is a game where you can invest money to buy an advantage (not to actually win in a game like some uninformed people claim) I have to say YES here. However this was already the case with PLEX and the character bazaar, it's just that they expanded on this.

So in conclusion, YES EVE is p2w, it was for a long time. It's just MORE p2w than before now.


I believe the words you are looking for is

"Pay for convenience"

CoolLol o7
Phyxre
Doomheim
#42 - 2016-02-29 22:03:32 UTC
MadTrojan Sarain wrote:
As the title say's.

Is EVE now officially P2W?

Why I ask this; you can now use skill injectors.
More to the point that someone, paid over $2k real money buying plex to sell for in game currency and then buying skill injectors to then become top skilled player.

So yes, I understand buying plex for in game currency has been around for a while as is using in game currency to buy plex time but now has it gone to far?

Does it even matter?
That someone playing ten years of hard core skill learning, to then be equalled by a paid player of same skill set from 1 day.

Yes experience counts for a lot but then the real question because; why have skill's now?
If you can rush game content in a lot of way's...

Has this diluted what CCP was?

Just a player intrigued and want to hear your constructive thoughts at hand.

Sincerely


Yes, you can now pay to win; any day now someone will win EVE. Also, EVE is dilute; there are less CCP moles in the dilute company solution than before.

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd I'm drunk!
Pix Severus
Empty You
#43 - 2016-02-29 22:14:43 UTC
The person with the most expensive calculator and most diverse collection of ballpoint pens is the one who will score highest on the math exam, right guys?

MTU Hunter: Latest Entry - June 12 2017 - Vocal Local 5

MTU Hunting 101: Comprehensive Guide
Paranoid Loyd
#44 - 2016-02-29 22:42:09 UTC
Pix Severus wrote:
The person with the most expensive calculator and most diverse collection of ballpoint pens is the one who will score highest on the math exam, right guys?

Pfft noob, fountain pens or GTFO. Lrn2P2W

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
IronBank
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2016-02-29 22:59:36 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Pix Severus wrote:
The person with the most expensive calculator and most diverse collection of ballpoint pens is the one who will score highest on the math exam, right guys?

Pfft noob, fountain pens or GTFO. Lrn2P2W


WTF no crayons or Glitter...
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#46 - 2016-02-29 23:01:31 UTC
Blade Darth
Room for Improvement
Good Sax
#47 - 2016-02-29 23:15:25 UTC
Go go CCP fix dah serva.

Terminal Insanity wrote:
why is there no protests about skill injectors like there were for monocles? that is puzzling.
the high SP players don't mind newbros flying easy to kill, failfit t2/3 ships, and new players are happy there is an option to "catch up" on own account rather than buying a weird named char from the bazaar (with bad KB/ corp history). I personally got mixed feelings about that, it's not p2w or game-breaking but changes the meta a bit.

Omen Navy Issue Tutorial
Terminal Insanity
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#48 - 2016-02-29 23:28:57 UTC
Blade Darth wrote:
the high SP players don't mind newbros flying easy to kill, failfit t2/3 ships, and new players are happy there is an option to "catch up" on own account rather than buying a weird named char from the bazaar (with bad KB/ corp history). I personally got mixed feelings about that, it's not p2w or game-breaking but changes the meta a bit.


Fair enough, but i still think its bullshit some lawyer's child can fly more than me, with perfect skills, on a 3 day old character.... while ive spent 10 years earning my ability to fly those ships.

tbh eve isnt as hard as people like to make it out to be. Sure the 3day old pay2win kid will lose a lot of **** on the first few days, but he'll quickly wise up and begin competing with those who've played 10+ years. That IS pay2win.

"War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP
Shallanna Yassavi
qwertz corp
#49 - 2016-02-29 23:37:40 UTC
You win this game by uninstalling and forgetting about it.

Most of us don't find that fun. Most of us find the game more fun if we throw some skills in queue and go poke a hornets' nest.
Making these injectors into items which can be traded means a lot of people will try to play it like any other game: grind for "levels."
The only way they could have done it worse is if they made you lose SP every time you got podded so you had to grind (or plex) your way back. I speak from experience about that one.

A signature :o
Lisa Mercator
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#50 - 2016-02-29 23:39:32 UTC
How do you win in eve?
Crystal Liche
ACME Mineral and Gas
#51 - 2016-02-29 23:46:40 UTC
You could already buy a premade char and some PLEX to sell for ships with RL cash .

The only difference here is it is way more expensive, but you get to keep your name.
Paranoid Loyd
#52 - 2016-03-01 00:04:35 UTC
Lisa Mercator wrote:
How do you win in eve?

By playing it, enjoying it and not becoming a whiny little ***** when things are not the way you think they should be.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Conrad Makbure
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2016-03-01 00:29:01 UTC
Buying the SP in large numbers is so expensive, if someone wants to drop $2,000 to do it, hell, go for it. As stated all over, no way will they have the knowledge to pvp with it; you gotta lose ships to learn and that's even more money if they buy it.

I'm not dropping that kind of cash, screw that. I think you guys way over estimate the value of EVE online. This game is, what, 13 years old? Lots of small time changes here and there, nothing real big to speak of, nothing (notable) on the table for the future. There are better things to spend the cash on in the gaming world than here. So with that said, if Joe 'got money to burn wants 100M SP just like that, I don't care, do it I say. CCP can use the money.
Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
#54 - 2016-03-01 00:50:05 UTC
It's more like pay 2 have now

@lunettelulu7
Alea
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2016-03-01 01:15:37 UTC
MadTrojan Sarain wrote:
As the title say's.

Is EVE now officially P2W?

Sincerely


Yes..

Whomever is making the last few years decisions on what changes are to be implemented in this game, must hate Eve with all their being.
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#56 - 2016-03-01 02:10:01 UTC
It's like everyone is running circles around that label. As if this is some seriously bad thing.

Maybe just take a step back, get a deep breath, drink a glass of water or something and think about it for a second: Why are you lying to yourself about this? I am talking to you EVE player who somehow thinks this has something to do with piloting skills or knowing the game.

You know damn well that pay2win does not mean to actually win by throwing money at it, it just buys you an advantage where you otherwise had to put effort into the game or it lowers some barrier where you had to wait for something.

There, I even highlighted the important part for you.

EVE is pay2win since the introduction of PLEX. Since PLEX you can skip the grind and fast-forward to flying that ship you want. Now even more so, since skills are no longer a barrier and you can throw money at it until it disappears. So SP trading did not made it pay2win, it just made it worse and the passive SP accumulation mutated into what looks like a regular free2play paywall.

I don't say that has to be a bad thing. My opinion is that PLEX was a compromise to battle RMT and to misuse it to expand on that pay2win side effect hurts the essence of EVE. But that is just my opinion, and I may be wrong about it.

That EVE is pay2win is simply a fact and not an opinion. Accept it. No one cares if you lie to yourself. The label pay2win has nothing to do with piloting skills, it has to do with the highlighted definition above. People not already playing the game recognise it for that it is as soon as they discover it. But it seams the EVE vet has some serious problem with that.

Evil RatKid
Anton Karnak
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#57 - 2016-03-01 02:24:46 UTC
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:
What is the difference between skill injectors and buying a character with the needed skills from the character bazaar? Before the injectors I could just buy and sell Plex then use the isk to purchase someone else's preskilled character. So really, what changed?

The cost maybe and that you inject skills to a character of your choosing instead of getting a premade character. Still, if you consider buying skills as pay-to-win, then the character bazaar allowed for that option long before injectors.



Nothing changed, except some people seem to have a vested interest in keeping the Character Bazaar going so they are masking their argument as an "EVE IS NOW PAY TO WIN" argument.
Lobbyists do what lobbyist do.


Paranoid Loyd
#58 - 2016-03-01 02:56:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
tiberiusric wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
You can't buy the knowledge required to play the game well, so no, it's not.


lol as much as you would.like to really believe that rubbish

to op yes absolutely is now p2w.

Lol, this coming from the guy who can't buy his way past ECM.Blink

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Geronimo McVain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2016-03-01 07:18:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Geronimo McVain
Terminal Insanity wrote:

Fair enough, but i still think its bullshit some lawyer's child can fly more than me, with perfect skills, on a 3 day old character.... while ive spent 10 years earning my ability to fly those ships.

tbh eve isnt as hard as people like to make it out to be. Sure the 3day old pay2win kid will lose a lot of **** on the first few days, but he'll quickly wise up and begin competing with those who've played 10+ years. That IS pay2win.

The first thing is true: he can fly more ships than you with perfect skills but that doesn't mean that he has any advantage when you are both flying your favorite ships. There isn't a ship, capitals excluded, that you can't max out within a year and at that point you have the perfekt auxiliary skills so the next ships are much faster. And Capitals are nothing without a decent corp except a sitting duck waiting for the next cruiser-gang. So skill injectors don't make Eve P2W.

The second point I really don't understand. Do you want noobs to be just gank-targets till they are 5 years old? Eve is a game about competition so where is the problem if there is another competent player? Maxing out some obscure science skill doesn't give you an edge in a firefight. Same goes for maxed BS skills when you are in a cruiser. Eve is much more versatile then other games and this versatility is what you buy with injectors, not skill or advantage.

The ability to buy faction/deadspace modules with plex will give players much more advantage then maxed out skills for a single ship.

Last point: If the community hates SIs why doesn't they just stop selling them? CCP doesn't sell the SP but players which want the ISK. CCP just gives you the possibility to cash in on your subscription time but they don't sell the SP.
Dyllan Ma'tar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2016-03-01 08:46:57 UTC
Only if you now can pay CCP to not let you log in. Roll