These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Test Server Feedback

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
123Next pageLast page
 

"Load Station Environment" option removed?

First post
Author
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF
#1 - 2016-02-28 15:07:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
I noticed the static background option didn't seem to be working recently, so I just logged on to attempt fixing whatever settings were wrong. When I opened the menu there was no sign of the checkbox for Load Station Environment.

Is this getting removed? I normally have several characters sitting in station at any given time and the GPU load of rendering the station scenes drastically reduces framerate for all characters when that option is enabled. Hopefully there continues to be an option to disable 3D rendering when docked or people like me will have to repeatedly sign a bunch of characters in and out instead of just docking.
Fraxxton
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2016-03-03 17:28:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Fraxxton
CCPlease don't remove the option to disable the station environment. It has always been a major resource hog, and especially on notebooks avoiding any pointless drain on battery life is highly important. I never used the Captain's Quarters, and never will, but I cannot seem to avoid the dynamic station environment on Singularity anymore. Cry

I don't need a hangar view at all, a simple "you are docked" wallpaper would be sufficient. For me, EVE graphics only become relevant after undocking.
Daemun Khanid
Corbeau de sang
#3 - 2016-03-03 17:44:40 UTC
Just pointed this out on the camera feedback thread as well. That ship bobbing makes me legitimately sea sick and there doesn't seem to be a way to make it stop.

Daemun of Khanid

Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF
#4 - 2016-03-04 06:08:11 UTC
Daemun Khanid wrote:
Just pointed this out on the camera feedback thread as well. That ship bobbing makes me legitimately sea sick and there doesn't seem to be a way to make it stop.

While that is an issue, it's completely different. They could make the ship stop moving while still forcing the rendering of the 3D hangar scene. That has a significant performance impact on other clients and many of us don't even look at the ship or hangar when docked. Being able to just render the scene once and have a static background is very helpful for those with weaker hardware or many accounts.
Darkblad
Doomheim
#5 - 2016-03-04 07:11:13 UTC
I also was surprised to find the Load Station Environment checkbox no longer being availabe without note. Is this something players complained about to customer support, like about reducing all open windows using TAB?


You did measure the number of clients that use this option to disable station environments and came to the conclusion that there are too few to keep that button within the client?



Daemun Khanid wrote:
ship bobbing
Available on Sisi as well as TQ is a possible remedy for your nausea.
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF
#6 - 2016-03-04 07:43:56 UTC
Darkblad wrote:
I also was surprised to find the Load Station Environment checkbox no longer being availabe without note. Is this something players complained about to customer support, like about reducing all open windows using TAB?


You did measure the number of clients that use this option to disable station environments and came to the conclusion that there are too few to keep that button within the client?

I think it's more about preparing the camera for docking in citadels.
Daemun Khanid
Corbeau de sang
#7 - 2016-03-04 17:16:49 UTC
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:
Daemun Khanid wrote:
Just pointed this out on the camera feedback thread as well. That ship bobbing makes me legitimately sea sick and there doesn't seem to be a way to make it stop.

While that is an issue, it's completely different. They could make the ship stop moving while still forcing the rendering of the 3D hangar scene. That has a significant performance impact on other clients and many of us don't even look at the ship or hangar when docked. Being able to just render the scene once and have a static background is very helpful for those with weaker hardware or many accounts.


It's not "completely different". You're looking to disable environment loading for performance reasons. I'm looking to disable load so that I don't see a ship bobbing up and down (since there's currently no other option to do so). Either way the issue is that they removed the option.

Daemun of Khanid

Daemun Khanid
Corbeau de sang
#8 - 2016-03-04 17:18:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Daemun Khanid
Darkblad wrote:
I also was surprised to find the Load Station Environment checkbox no longer being availabe without note. Is this something players complained about to customer support, like about reducing all open windows using TAB?


You did measure the number of clients that use this option to disable station environments and came to the conclusion that there are too few to keep that button within the client?



Daemun Khanid wrote:
ship bobbing
Available on Sisi as well as TQ is a possible remedy for your nausea.


As mentioned elsewhere, the camera bobbing option stops the camera movement (both in and out of station) however the ship itself continues to bob up and down when docked. You can tell the difference by turning camera bobbing on, and watch the ship and the entire environment move up and down. Turn bobbing off and the environment stops moving but the ship bobbing continues. Which is why I noticed the removal of the load station environment option to begin with. I figured I'd just turn it off so I'd have a static screen w no movement only to find that to my surprise they'd removed that option. It's like they want to make ppl sick. Ugh
(obviously that's not the case, just can't for the life of me figure out why they'd remove the station load option unless it has something to do with interiors of citadels)

Daemun of Khanid

CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#9 - 2016-03-05 01:09:48 UTC
Please understand that we realize the value that a feature like this can have for someone who's running Eve for some reason on a really slow machine that needs it. If you are, it probably seems annoying and arbitrary that we'd take it out.

However, any feature, even something like this which is relatively simple, carries ongoing costs to the development team for the life of the game.

The way this feature works is that it loads the 3D station environment, including your ship, captures an image of your ship in the station hangar, and then disables rendering of the 3D station environment, using that image in its place.

  • First, even when the feature works fine, every release we have to make sure our QA team schedules a task to verify that it still works. We do this for every feature in the settings.

  • Second, certain recent changes (I'm not sure exactly which ones, but I believe they were related to the new, unreleased hangar environments for citadels) broke this feature internally. This particular feature had broken before in the recent past, and each time this happens, we must allocate developer time to investigate and fix the issue.

  • Finally, we have an ongoing problem (and I'm pretty sure you've noticed it too) that our settings menu is overloaded with choices, many of which are hard to describe in a tooltip or a few-word name. It's easy to add settings and harder (particularly when players depend on them) to remove them. So, we're trying to manage our settings more closely and not just leave them there because they've been there for a long time.

  • In this instance, we're very sure (because we repeatedly check) that our normal hangar environment performs acceptably on "low" settings on a machine that meets our minimum specification. We also have data that lets us know how many people enable this particular setting, and it's not many. (Sorry, I don't know the exact percentage.)

    If you're struggling with performance with a single client, I would first try turning the settings all the way down on that machine, if you haven't already, and see how far that gets you. If it's still problematic, turning on Interval 1 and lowering screen resolution may also help.

    If you are finding there's a significant performance drop for your foreground Eve client with entirely minimized clients running in the background, this may be a bug, and I suggest using the in-game bug report tool ("Report Bug" on the F12 menu) to report it.

    CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins

    Daemun Khanid
    Corbeau de sang
    #10 - 2016-03-05 07:50:26 UTC
    Thank you for the response Darwin. I kinda figured it had something to do with citadels to at least some extent.

    Can you provide any info on the ship bobbing issue though? It's extremely distracting in small ships and [pretty downright nauseating to be honest. Disabling the station environment was the only way I could see around this without further dev intervention and since that's been removed out of necessity... Could it be linked to the camera bobbing option so that it goes away completely both in and out of station?

    Daemun of Khanid

    Fraxxton
    Brutor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #11 - 2016-03-05 17:10:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Fraxxton
    First of all: thanks to CCP Darwin for taking the time to explain the reasoning. I encourage other CCP devs to follow his example.

    Still, I want to ask about what I mentioned in my earlier post: why not provide the option to completely disable the hangar interior scene? Displaying a static "you are docked" image/wallpaper with no details about the station type or active ship should be easy to implement, easy to test and almost impossible to break. I would even be happy with a completely black background, no artwork required. I run multiple clients on a notebook, and battery life is very precious to me.

    As for reducing the graphics details: sorry, but this is not a valid proposal. I want EVE graphics while in space, but don't care about graphics when docked. You can't expect players to fiddle with their graphics settings whenever they dock or undock just because CCP removes a very useful, performance relevant option without providing an alternative. Blink
    Darkblad
    #12 - 2016-03-05 17:41:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Darkblad
    This option is still available until the map is gone.

    Edit: The rendered still image gets replaced by a black screen on several occasions anyway. Until patch day tomorrow soon™, of course.
    Nana Skalski
    Taisaanat Kotei
    #13 - 2016-03-06 10:13:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
    CCP Darwin wrote:
    Please understand that we realize the value that a feature like this can have for someone who's running Eve for some reason on a really slow machine that needs it. If you are, it probably seems annoying and arbitrary that we'd take it out.

    However, any feature, even something like this which is relatively simple, carries ongoing costs to the development team for the life of the game.

    The way this feature works is that it loads the 3D station environment, including your ship, captures an image of your ship in the station hangar, and then disables rendering of the 3D station environment, using that image in its place.

  • First, even when the feature works fine, every release we have to make sure our QA team schedules a task to verify that it still works. We do this for every feature in the settings.

  • Second, certain recent changes (I'm not sure exactly which ones, but I believe they were related to the new, unreleased hangar environments for citadels) broke this feature internally. This particular feature had broken before in the recent past, and each time this happens, we must allocate developer time to investigate and fix the issue.

  • Finally, we have an ongoing problem (and I'm pretty sure you've noticed it too) that our settings menu is overloaded with choices, many of which are hard to describe in a tooltip or a few-word name. It's easy to add settings and harder (particularly when players depend on them) to remove them. So, we're trying to manage our settings more closely and not just leave them there because they've been there for a long time.

  • In this instance, we're very sure (because we repeatedly check) that our normal hangar environment performs acceptably on "low" settings on a machine that meets our minimum specification. We also have data that lets us know how many people enable this particular setting, and it's not many. (Sorry, I don't know the exact percentage.)

    If you're struggling with performance with a single client, I would first try turning the settings all the way down on that machine, if you haven't already, and see how far that gets you. If it's still problematic, turning on Interval 1 and lowering screen resolution may also help.

    If you are finding there's a significant performance drop for your foreground Eve client with entirely minimized clients running in the background, this may be a bug, and I suggest using the in-game bug report tool ("Report Bug" on the F12 menu) to report it.


    You can just change it for an image placeholder of racial CQ or hangar.
    Helios Anduath
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #14 - 2016-03-08 02:26:31 UTC
    Nana Skalski wrote:
    You can just change it for an image placeholder of racial CQ or hangar.


    You are missing part of the point here - having the option, no matter how it is implemented, entails additional dev and QA time each update as it is another option they have to check.
    Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
    CK-0FF
    #15 - 2016-03-08 07:10:57 UTC
    Helios Anduath wrote:
    Nana Skalski wrote:
    You can just change it for an image placeholder of racial CQ or hangar.


    You are missing part of the point here - having the option, no matter how it is implemented, entails additional dev and QA time each update as it is another option they have to check.

    And not having the option entails some players having to render a scene they don't want, resulting less performance and/or havingto repeatedly change settings. It comes down to balancing the devs' work with how much it affects players. Hopefully we can come up with a simple solution that is easy to maintain and doesn't harm the players like outright removing the option.
    Dersen Lowery
    The Scope
    #16 - 2016-03-08 16:50:30 UTC
    CCP Darwin wrote:
    Please understand that we realize the value that a feature like this can have for someone who's running Eve for some reason on a really slow machine that needs it. If you are, it probably seems annoying and arbitrary that we'd take it out.


    As a developer myself, I completely understand this.

    However: in my particular case, I'm using that feature because some of my characters are preset to load into CQ, and CQ currently has about a 75% chance of hard-freezing the EVE client. I can't change the view to hangar until it (finally) loads, and it often hard freezes before loading, so as a workaround I've disabled the station environment.

    If you take that option away, I'm going to be effectively locked out of several characters.

    (ps: this is with the Mac client, which has simultaneously become much better and much worse.)

    Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

    I voted in CSM X!

    CCP Darwin
    C C P
    C C P Alliance
    #17 - 2016-03-08 16:59:52 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Darwin
    Dersen Lowery wrote:
    However: in my particular case, I'm using that feature because some of my characters are preset to load into CQ, and CQ currently has about a 75% chance of hard-freezing the EVE client. I can't change the view to hangar until it (finally) loads, and it often hard freezes before loading, so as a workaround I've disabled the station environment.

    I'll check with one of our QA analysts. We may be able to publish a procedure that will allow you to change that setting without launching the game.

    Quote:
    (ps: this is with the Mac client, which has simultaneously become much better and much worse.)

    Are you referring to the new WINE option? If it's much worse in a way you can describe, please file bug reports about any issues you encounter!

    CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins

    Dersen Lowery
    The Scope
    #18 - 2016-03-08 17:09:56 UTC
    CCP Darwin wrote:
    Dersen Lowery wrote:
    However: in my particular case, I'm using that feature because some of my characters are preset to load into CQ, and CQ currently has about a 75% chance of hard-freezing the EVE client. I can't change the view to hangar until it (finally) loads, and it often hard freezes before loading, so as a workaround I've disabled the station environment.

    I'll check with one of our QA analysts. We may be able to publish a procedure that will allow you to change that setting without launching the game.


    Blessings upon you and your house.

    CCP Darwin wrote:
    Quote:
    (ps: this is with the Mac client, which has simultaneously become much better and much worse.)

    Are you referring to the new WINE option? If it's much worse in a way you can describe, please file bug reports about any issues you encounter!


    I'll follow up when I get home this evening (USTZ).

    Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

    I voted in CSM X!

    Petrified
    Old and Petrified Syndication
    SONS of BANE
    #19 - 2016-03-08 23:45:12 UTC
    Thank you CCP Darwin for the explanation. It would be nice to have this feature restored in some manner but I understand the development reasoning behind it. If there was some way for a variation to be performed that allows a static background versus full 3D render, that would be great. Even a static image of the ship itself used from item description images would get the idea across without excess overhead for the client.

    Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

    Support better localization for the Japanese Community.

    CCP Darwin
    C C P
    C C P Alliance
    #20 - 2016-03-09 00:39:05 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Darwin
    Here is a procedure that should allow you to bypass Captain's Quarters once the Load Station Environment checkbox is removed, if you are unable to load Captain's Quarters successfully on your computer. Note that this particular procedure will reset all your local settings, including chat channels and overview.

    Note: These instructions assume you are using the new Eve launcher.

  • Open the launcher. If necessary, log on to your account with your username and password. (If they're saved, so much the better.)

  • Next to your account name, click on the Gear icon.

  • Choose "Manage Profiles."

  • Click "New Profile" and name it something clear, like "Hangar."

  • Click "Close."

  • Click on the gear icon again. The menu should now contain your new profile name as an option.

  • Choose your new profile name and make sure the circle next to it contains a dot, indicating it's selected.

  • Click elsewhere in the launcher to dismiss the menu, then launch your account.

  • Eve will launch, and you should see the intro movie, which you can cancel by hitting Esc. Once you pick a character, you will be in your hangar view, not Captain's Quarters. Note that you will then have to set up your overview, chat channels, and preferred settings again.

    CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins

    123Next pageLast page