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Typhoon Fleet Issue

Author
Zockhandra
Canadian Bacon.
Honorable Third Party
#1 - 2016-02-26 10:16:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Zockhandra
I wanted to make a post about this ship in the hopes of some kind of suggestion for a re-work magically appearing.
Since the re-work of the Typhoon, this ship has become even more....Odd

For those of you who are unaware, the bonuses of the Typhoon Fleet issue are as follows:

Minmatar Battleship bonuses (per skill level):
7.5 %bonus to Heavy Missile, Cruise Missile and Torpedo damage
7.5 %bonus to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire


Okay, so what's wrong with this? It doesn't look that bad right?

At one time i would agree, This doesn't look too bad, until you realise that its very difficult to mix/match or just go for one weapon system and still get a decent damage result. Please do not misunderstand, this ship has an excellent Capacitor, Armour and shield Stat, (easily fielding 150k ehp from a very affordable price).

Now, these bonuses allow these ships to be fit in unusual ways, ways that people don't expect. Which is an advantage in itself, but my argument is that all of these methods of fitting, simply don't do enough damage to be worth using the ship at all.

For example, a buffer fit Typhoon with 650mm projectile turrets and x2 gyro-stabilisers can only reach dps of 669 (RF phased plasma). The bonuses do not help that much either, when you factor in that due to no range bonus, this damage is applied only in same range as a Megathron (which alternately can get shy of 1k dps and much better tracking).

You could swap to rapid heavies, but since the ship has no bonus for them, they are wasted.
Try it with torps? You get very high damage, unfortunately thats not very good against small targets (which are the most common targets) So that leaves cruiser missiles. Using cruise missiles, and armor you get practically unlimited tactical range, good damage projection, and very nice tank....Sadly the dps is still not great, only reaching past 800 with the help from x5 max skilled ogres (1064 dps)


So whilst the Phoon fleet issue has some very nice tanky stats, other T1 battleships still out perform it in every way.


I hope this opens up for discussion on the ship itself and what could be done to fix this.

Shield are red, Armor is too, i slapped my heavy neut, all over you. Fingers crossed, broken shattered and burned, across from the bubble and into your hull.

ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2016-02-26 11:44:41 UTC  |  Edited by: ChromeStriker
[Typhoon Fleet Issue, New Setup 1 copy 1]
Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Missile Guidance Enhancer II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Capacitor Power Relay II

500MN Microwarpdrive II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Warp Scrambler II
Large Micro Jump Drive

Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Energy Neutralizer II
Heavy Energy Neutralizer II

Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Large Core Defense Field Extender II
Large Core Defense Field Extender II

Ogre II x5
Hammerhead II x5
Acolyte II x5

1000 dps, 2 heavy neuts, MJD, 100K EHP, hits Cruisers all day, 1200m/s, Swap the Scram for whichever EWAR you need...
This ship changes fit to whatever you ask of it...

Sorry whats your problem?

Edit:

Quite a few pirate BS's are cheeper than this now.. would prob go with one of those ;)

No Worries

Kalihira
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#3 - 2016-02-26 12:37:35 UTC
The ship is fine. I would say its one of the best and versatile battleships out there. Do keep in mind it only works well with missiles, but within that limitation, it can do a LOT. Shield or armor kite? Sure! Brawl? Why not! Works with any missile system.
Reworking this ship would probably mean nerfing the 7.5% dmg bonus, which is kinda one of its main selling points.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#4 - 2016-02-26 13:35:35 UTC
What do you mean there's no bonus for rapid heavy missile launchers? You get a 37.5% damage bonus for these, they don't need much in the way of damage application modules and it's quite easy to extend missile range with hydraulic rigs. I would even put forward that rapid heavy missile launchers don't really need more than two ballistic controls as well. And as has been pointed out, it sports a fairly decent drone punch as well.

As a point of fact, the Fleet Typhoon does more raw missile damage than either a Navy Raven or Golem and is second only to the Barghest.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Zockhandra
Canadian Bacon.
Honorable Third Party
#5 - 2016-02-26 13:39:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Zockhandra
Okay then, guess i'm wrong on every front then...


Though it doesnt actually get a bonus to 'Rapid' heavies only gets a bonus to Heavy missiles - Might seem like a small difference, but they classify as two seperate weapon systems

Shield are red, Armor is too, i slapped my heavy neut, all over you. Fingers crossed, broken shattered and burned, across from the bubble and into your hull.

Zockhandra
Canadian Bacon.
Honorable Third Party
#6 - 2016-02-26 13:46:35 UTC
ChromeStriker wrote:
[Typhoon Fleet Issue, New Setup 1 copy 1]
Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Missile Guidance Enhancer II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Capacitor Power Relay II

500MN Microwarpdrive II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Warp Scrambler II
Large Micro Jump Drive

Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Energy Neutralizer II
Heavy Energy Neutralizer II

Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Large Core Defense Field Extender II
Large Core Defense Field Extender II

Ogre II x5
Hammerhead II x5
Acolyte II x5

1000 dps, 2 heavy neuts, MJD, 100K EHP, hits Cruisers all day, 1200m/s, Swap the Scram for whichever EWAR you need...
This ship changes fit to whatever you ask of it...

Sorry whats your problem?

Edit:

Quite a few pirate BS's are cheeper than this now.. would prob go with one of those ;)




If thats the case. Why are the phoon fleet issues never used? I believe the last time i saw one, was 3 years ago (and i was flying the thing) I'm an active pvper, i move around alot and i hunt null bears alot. If its just THAT good.... why isnt it out there?

Shield are red, Armor is too, i slapped my heavy neut, all over you. Fingers crossed, broken shattered and burned, across from the bubble and into your hull.

Zockhandra
Canadian Bacon.
Honorable Third Party
#7 - 2016-02-26 14:02:22 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
What do you mean there's no bonus for rapid heavy missile launchers? You get a 37.5% damage bonus for these, they don't need much in the way of damage application modules and it's quite easy to extend missile range with hydraulic rigs. I would even put forward that rapid heavy missile launchers don't really need more than two ballistic controls as well. And as has been pointed out, it sports a fairly decent drone punch as well.

As a point of fact, the Fleet Typhoon does more raw missile damage than either a Navy Raven or Golem and is second only to the Barghest.






Why Does it have the turret bonus then? Everyone here seems to favour missiles on them? why not scrap the turret bonus entirely?

Shield are red, Armor is too, i slapped my heavy neut, all over you. Fingers crossed, broken shattered and burned, across from the bubble and into your hull.

ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2016-02-26 14:08:36 UTC  |  Edited by: ChromeStriker
Zockhandra wrote:

If thats the case. Why are the phoon fleet issues never used? I believe the last time i saw one, was 3 years ago (and i was flying the thing) I'm an active pvper, i move around alot and i hunt null bears alot. If its just THAT good.... why isnt it out there?


Because its relativly expensive, and fleets work to a meta that usually isnt utility (neut boats neut, webs ships web, etc).
I see them, but in small gangs or solo.

Zockhandra wrote:

Why Does it have the turret bonus then? Everyone here seems to favour missiles on them? why not scrap the turret bonus entirely?


Because the Fleet phoon has one of, if not the highest, dps potentials of any sub-cap ship... 2300dps or something T2 fit

No Worries

Zockhandra
Canadian Bacon.
Honorable Third Party
#9 - 2016-02-26 14:15:16 UTC
ChromeStriker wrote:
Zockhandra wrote:

If thats the case. Why are the phoon fleet issues never used? I believe the last time i saw one, was 3 years ago (and i was flying the thing) I'm an active pvper, i move around alot and i hunt null bears alot. If its just THAT good.... why isnt it out there?


Because its relativly expensive, and fleets work to a meta that usually isnt utility (neut boats neut, webs ships web, etc).
I see them, but in small gangs or solo.

Zockhandra wrote:

Why Does it have the turret bonus then? Everyone here seems to favour missiles on them? why not scrap the turret bonus entirely?


Because the Fleet phoon has one of, if not the highest, dps potentials of any sub-cap ship... 2300dps or something T2 fit




I'd very much like to see that fitting.

Shield are red, Armor is too, i slapped my heavy neut, all over you. Fingers crossed, broken shattered and burned, across from the bubble and into your hull.

Zockhandra
Canadian Bacon.
Honorable Third Party
#10 - 2016-02-26 14:30:02 UTC
Okay Fine, i concede defeat, even a T2 fit can happily squeeze 1700 dps at close range.

Shield are red, Armor is too, i slapped my heavy neut, all over you. Fingers crossed, broken shattered and burned, across from the bubble and into your hull.

ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2016-02-26 14:34:48 UTC  |  Edited by: ChromeStriker
[Typhoon Fleet Issue, New Setup 1]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

500MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Large F-S9 Regolith Compact Shield Extender
Large F-S9 Regolith Compact Shield Extender
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

Polarized Torpedo Launcher, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo
Polarized Torpedo Launcher, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo
Polarized Torpedo Launcher, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo
Polarized Torpedo Launcher, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo
Polarized Torpedo Launcher, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo
Polarized Torpedo Launcher, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo
Polarized 800mm Repeating Cannon, Hail L
Polarized 800mm Repeating Cannon, Hail L

Large Warhead Calefaction Catalyst II
Large Core Defense Field Extender I
Large Core Defense Field Extender I

Ogre II x5

For when you REALLY need to kill a POCO lol

No Worries

Asinae Antaelis
#12 - 2016-02-26 14:51:06 UTC
Zockhandra wrote:

Though it doesnt actually get a bonus to 'Rapid' heavies only gets a bonus to Heavy missiles - Might seem like a small difference, but they classify as two seperate weapon systems


'rapid' denotes the type of launcher, but that missile launcher launch standard "heavy missile", precsisely the type of ammo the ship is bonused for....
Zockhandra
Canadian Bacon.
Honorable Third Party
#13 - 2016-02-26 14:51:09 UTC
ChromeStriker wrote:
[Typhoon Fleet Issue, New Setup 1]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

500MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Large F-S9 Regolith Compact Shield Extender
Large F-S9 Regolith Compact Shield Extender
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

Polarized Torpedo Launcher, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo
Polarized Torpedo Launcher, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo
Polarized Torpedo Launcher, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo
Polarized Torpedo Launcher, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo
Polarized Torpedo Launcher, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo
Polarized Torpedo Launcher, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo
Polarized 800mm Repeating Cannon, Hail L
Polarized 800mm Repeating Cannon, Hail L

Large Warhead Calefaction Catalyst II
Large Core Defense Field Extender I
Large Core Defense Field Extender I

Ogre II x5

For when you REALLY need to kill a POCO lol



Seems to have an insanely good alpha... got a 1700 dps fit here with armor buffer using T2 torps
Same highslot layout. Think i'll give a few fits testing on the test server. Thankyou for your feedback

Shield are red, Armor is too, i slapped my heavy neut, all over you. Fingers crossed, broken shattered and burned, across from the bubble and into your hull.

W0lf Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2016-02-26 15:00:13 UTC
Rapid heavys use heavy missiles, the bonus boosts heavy missile damage, thus it applies to rhmls.


The reason you see none is cause like all non mach bs they suck for roaming, very good ship though (https://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=30418635 is the last time i flew one).

Just look at the AT or the eve-nt and youll see how good the ship really is.

some fit:

[Typhoon Fleet Issue, floon]
Internal Force Field Array I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Large Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Missile Guidance Enhancer II

500MN Microwarpdrive II
Warp Disruptor II
Stasis Webifier II
Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 25
Large Micro Jump Drive

Heavy Gremlin Compact Energy Neutralizer
Heavy Gremlin Compact Energy Neutralizer
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Missile

Large Ancillary Current Router I
Large Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Large Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I

Valkyrie II x5
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#15 - 2016-02-26 17:01:54 UTC
Zockhandra wrote:
Though it doesnt actually get a bonus to 'Rapid' heavies only gets a bonus to Heavy missiles - Might seem like a small difference, but they classify as two seperate weapon systems

Rapid heavy launchers use... heavy missiles. So you're getting the equivalent of 8.25 launchers with Minmatar Battleship V. A damage bonus will always trump a rate of fire bonus with rapid launchers. The Fleet Typhoon will thus also out-DPS a Raven or Navy Scorpion as well.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

pushdogg
relocation LLC.
#16 - 2016-02-26 18:32:11 UTC
I'm really not sure what to reply to this post.

The cost of entry is the only reason I don't regularly use this. But I assure you the fleet issue variant is on par with pirate bs.

With the introduction of grapplers this ship and it's t1 variant are only going to get better....I'm still not sure how to react to this thread.

You should try just the t1 variant, I'm sure you would be quite impressed.
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#17 - 2016-02-27 17:58:09 UTC
You don't see Phoons much, because that is not EVE's current META. But if there's a battleship engagement to be had, the T1 phoon is a super cheap, powerful, tanky, utility versatile ship. The best in game for my thinking. The Fleet Issue is even better.

The can be fit to neut, or fit to remote rep.
Selectable damage
Shield tank
Armor tank
Fast, as battle ships go
Great drone bay
again, very affordable

If your not getting 1000 to 1200 DPS, you either have bad skills or a bad fit.

Minmatar used to be skill intensive. A well skilled Phoon needed Missile skills, Drone skills, Shield, Armor, Gunnery, Speed/Nav skills. But: it was a fairly easy cross over for mission pilots with decent CaldariRaven skills.

I've been in hundreds of BS fights with a T1 Phoon.
I like Mega's second, and I liked the 'old' Armageddon a lot.
Definitely worth skilling for imo.
Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#18 - 2016-02-29 06:17:07 UTC
I think gun bonus is pretty useless on fleet phoon. Its only niche is putting polarized weapons on it for POS bashing, which is a pretty sorry excuse to keep a mostly worthless bonus on it.

Tempest and fleet tempest both beat the Typhoon at autocannon kiting/brawling. Fleet phoon doesn't have the grid to support big guns.

T1 phoon is strong with cruise missiles, RHML and probably torps if fit for it. I think Fleet phoon should just be made into a missile ship, even its fitting strongly leans towards missile fits.

Other than that though, its a very strong RHML ship. For cruise/torps though, i would go with t1 phoon since its cheaper and applies better.
Icarius
The Wings of Maak
#19 - 2016-02-29 21:07:32 UTC
I agree, the typhoon fleet need a boost, more fire power.
The ship as some reals problems against any ships from its class, it"s hard to get some kills with it

Big smile

for those who did not realize I was joking

ha ha ha one of the most funny thread i have ever read
Switch Savage
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2016-02-29 22:52:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Switch Savage
ChromeStriker wrote:
[Typhoon Fleet Issue, New Setup 1 copy 1]
Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Missile Guidance Enhancer II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Capacitor Power Relay II

500MN Microwarpdrive II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Warp Scrambler II
Large Micro Jump Drive

Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Energy Neutralizer II
Heavy Energy Neutralizer II

Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Large Core Defense Field Extender II
Large Core Defense Field Extender II

Ogre II x5
Hammerhead II x5
Acolyte II x5

1000 dps, 2 heavy neuts, MJD, 100K EHP, hits Cruisers all day, 1200m/s, Swap the Scram for whichever EWAR you need...
This ship changes fit to whatever you ask of it...

Sorry whats your problem?

Edit:

Quite a few pirate BS's are cheeper than this now.. would prob go with one of those ;)


What...

Wolfs fit is the way to go i run mine slightly modified with a bit more bling. Hull tank brawling is a reasonable option but jesus wept never shield tank it for PvP.
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