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When will Tech3 BS make an appearance?
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Fidelium Mortis
Minor Major Miners LLC
#41 - 2011-12-16 15:26:34 UTC
I look forward to the Tech 3 BS about as much as I do the Tech 3 industrial ship. More T2 options on the otherhand that have specialized roles could be interesting.

ICRS - Intergalactic Certified Rocket Surgeon
Aeril Malkyre
Knights of the Ouroboros
#42 - 2011-12-16 15:32:11 UTC
I'd have to agree that such a BS would be far too redonkulous. People rail against the Mach, for example, for it's ridiculous damage, high speed, high tank. Based on how Strategic Cruisers were implemented, you could imagine that of the new BS line, every one would be Mach level or above. Plus cost about 3 billion just to piece together the hull. It's a cool concept, and I can always use more shiny to chase, but there's no way it could be balanced.

The idea I do like is the Tech 3 industrials. I don't even mine, but it seems the most likely place for such a hull. Currently there is a huge hauling gap between industrials and freighters, for example. You can skill and rig and mod a Mammoth up to maybe 30,000 m3 of cargo. But the very first ship after that in terms of raw hauling is a capital size freighter with 720,000 m3. Some might say the Orca is supposed to be the middle ground, but that's a much more skill intensive ship, and meant to fulfill a number of other roles.

Enter a Tech 3 moddable hull that can be a mid-size hauler (between 30 and 720), or a mini-Orca with mining bonuses, or be a damn good miner as the next step up for a Hulk pilot, or be a compressor with extra drones for defense, or whatever. I think you'd run into far less balance issues with an industrial Tech 3 hull than any other. And provide a bit of a shot in the arm for all the industrialists out there who don't often get new toys.
Alski
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2011-12-16 15:58:29 UTC
adopt
Its faster to train for a covert ops frigate num nuts, frigate V is 7 days, cruiser V is 16.[/quote wrote:


[quote=mnybag1]
It takes MUCH more sp to fly a proby tengu then it does to fly a buzzard, and about 100 times more expensive.


Do you fly with a lot of people that don't already have a cruiser V and don't have competent support skills for a cruiser hull these days? Roll

Racial SAC electronic systems V is 4 days
Covert Ops V is about 17 days

Ships with extremely focused roles requiring lots of SP that has little other utility should perform better than a T3 with a 4 day subsystem V.
mnybag1
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#44 - 2011-12-16 16:07:53 UTC
No. Just No.

If you are going to do a SP comparisons you have to assume starting from beginning so you can treat it as a general case. Furthermore, Cov Ops 5 is not needed at all: 4 is plenty for the purposes of a cloaky scout or prober.

As to your question, I actually do fly with people that do not have cruiser 5 because I choose to accept some new players into my corp to give them a chance to learn.

Lastly, even if you want to compare them how you are trying to, the T3 still costs close to 50 times the cost of a fully fitted cov ops scanning frig, even if you do have t2 rigs on (which you probably wuldnt want on your tengu)
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#45 - 2011-12-16 16:39:31 UTC
Kievan Arakyd wrote:
You want a new mining ship?

Narwahl
T2 Orca Hull
+25% added to strip miner cycle time
+300$ strip miner/ice harvester range
+500% survey scan range

Requires new skill Harvester Barge (requires Exhumers V, Advanced Spaceship #?)
+10% capacity Ore hold per lvl
-5% cycle time per level (similar to mackinaw ice harvester)

Fitting
6 high
2 med
2 low

Shield Armor Structure:
Should be more than hulk, but far less than Orca

Cargo: 0
Ore hold: 50000 (75000 @ lvl 5)
No ship maint bay or corp hangars (no hauling of any thing other than raw ore)

Designed by ORE in YC 113 as a response to calls from mining operations for a more robust mining barge (due to recent attacks P ) ORE released this class of Orca-hull ships refitted to mine ore, resulting in more protection and productivity for miners. Internal cargo optimizations come at a cost however, less structural integrity compared to the Orca command class.

Ochre/Gunmetal default paint scheme


Ok but it costs 3 billion

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
Kievan Arakyd
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2011-12-16 16:40:10 UTC
Krios Ahzek wrote:
Kievan Arakyd wrote:
You want a new mining ship?

Narwahl
T2 Orca Hull
+25% added to strip miner cycle time
+300$ strip miner/ice harvester range
+500% survey scan range

Requires new skill Harvester Barge (requires Exhumers V, Advanced Spaceship #?)
+10% capacity Ore hold per lvl
-5% cycle time per level (similar to mackinaw ice harvester)

Fitting
6 high
2 med
2 low

Shield Armor Structure:
Should be more than hulk, but far less than Orca

Cargo: 0
Ore hold: 50000 (75000 @ lvl 5)
No ship maint bay or corp hangars (no hauling of any thing other than raw ore)

Designed by ORE in YC 113 as a response to calls from mining operations for a more robust mining barge (due to recent attacks P ) ORE released this class of Orca-hull ships refitted to mine ore, resulting in more protection and productivity for miners. Internal cargo optimizations come at a cost however, less structural integrity compared to the Orca command class.

Ochre/Gunmetal default paint scheme


Ok but it costs 3 billion



I'm ok with that.

Got my Dust514 key...
Alski
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2011-12-16 16:42:24 UTC
mnybag1 wrote:
No. Just No.

If you are going to do a SP comparisons you have to assume starting from beginning so you can treat it as a general case.



Nope. Covops is a ship skill that gives you specialisation at probing. Electronic Subsystems is a ship skill that gives you specialisation at probing, and more!

Cruiser V gets you into a lot more than just T3's just as Frigate V gets you into a lot more than just covops, these are only specialisations for the T1 ship hulls until you choose to train a T2/T3 ship class that requires them.

mnybag1 wrote:

Cov Ops 5 is not needed at all: 4 is plenty for the purposes of a cloaky scout or prober.


Which makes my point all the more: T3's allow you to do a BETTER job than a specialised ship for LESS SP invested, and that SP invested has more than one use due to other subsystems.

mnybag1 wrote:


As to your question, I actually do fly with people that do not have cruiser 5 because I choose to accept some new players into my corp to give them a chance to learn.



I fly with a lot of players who are around the "slightly less than a year" to 1.5 years range, I'd say 80% of them have a cruiser V, and of those, 90% have a T3 or are looking to get one, I think that says a fair bit about what roles T3's have usurped.

Don't get me wrong, I like T3's, I don't want em nerfed in any way, if anything certain subsystems need to be made more useful, but they have hugely distorted the role gap between certain ship classes. I don't see anyway Battleship T3's could be properly balanced, or worse: T3 BC's would be the next logical step, and such a thing could only be ridiculous.
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#48 - 2011-12-16 17:25:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Large Collidable Object
Considering T3 Industrials: Adding a couple indutrial subsystems to existing T3 cruisers would do the trick. mining barges are medium ships anyway, so add e.g. a 'Cargohold expansion' hauling subsystem and others for gas/ice/strip miners - and there you go:

T3 industrials with enourmous versatility due to the ability to combine them with existing subs. Fitted purely for industry, they shouldn't be as good as their t2 industrial counterparts, but they'd have their niche.

Quite opposed to T3 BS and even more so tier 3 frigs: You thought the Dramiel turned frig pvp into a wasteland? Just imagine a frigate sized tengu or a T3 rifter. Gah!
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
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