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Worries about the skill injectors, and the future of the game.

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Norian Lonark
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#161 - 2016-02-18 09:32:31 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:

All skillpoints do is unlock the ability to fly a given hull with a given weapon, or utilize a given module to a particular end. Using the ship and modules is where the skill lies, and is the key to victory or failure. That's what defines you as an EVE player.

Being able to trade skillpoints and freely respec your character changes very little. What it does is allow people to keep their gameplay fresh and try new things, or gives new players a leg up to be able to try new things faster if they choose to do so.

That's my take on it anyway, as a 13 year vet of EVE.

Smile



I agree with the OP and personally dont like the idea and never had.

I dont really understand the point of sps at all now then, other then the fact that they limit choice, freedom and fun gameplay?

If this is the line that has been drawn, that being able to respect your character freely gives more fun and doesnt have any impact why not just remove SPs?

Why not have the ability to do everything all at once, give everyone unlimited freedom and choice?


Start wide, expand further, and never look back
Darkblad
Doomheim
#162 - 2016-02-18 09:34:22 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Seriously, now you speak to the players about this. After 3 months of silence and not addressing a single concern of the playerbase in the two other threads! There are a lot more concerns and they had all nothing to do with p2w. But for some reason you published the devblog and then went completely dark on the issue. It was pretty obvious that you don't care what people have to say.

To come here now and tell us we should not worry because it's not p2w is like the other discussions did not even happen, it's like you did not pay attention at all and have no clue about the arguments on both sides. Do we really need to start over with a new threads and repeat all the same stuff we said in the couple of months since the initial devblog? Or can you simply say here and now that CCP does not care anyway, never intended this to be a discussion and that we actually all just waste our free time?
Right now is the perfect time.

  • The feature is active.
  • A precedence was set.
  • "It's too late"
  • We had the chance to state our opinion and thoughts and I'm sure that all of those were - singalong - read, discussed internally and considered.

    • All is fine and dandy, right?

    But hey, at least CCP Falcon talks to us on this matter now. That's more to be expected than on other changes that caused thoughtful feedback (I wonder if and when CCP Explorer uses the opportunity to point to this thread on twitter if someone wishes to discuss the matter).

    NPE-ISD-Übersetzt!
    Algarion Getz
    Aideron Corp
    #163 - 2016-02-18 09:50:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Algarion Getz
    Norian Lonark wrote:
    CCP Falcon wrote:

    All skillpoints do is unlock the ability to fly a given hull with a given weapon, or utilize a given module to a particular end. Using the ship and modules is where the skill lies, and is the key to victory or failure. That's what defines you as an EVE player.

    Being able to trade skillpoints and freely respec your character changes very little. What it does is allow people to keep their gameplay fresh and try new things, or gives new players a leg up to be able to try new things faster if they choose to do so.

    That's my take on it anyway, as a 13 year vet of EVE.

    Smile



    I agree with the OP and personally dont like the idea and never had.

    I dont really understand the point of sps at all now then, other then the fact that they limit choice, freedom and fun gameplay?

    If this is the line that has been drawn, that being able to respect your character freely gives more fun and doesnt have any impact why not just remove SPs?

    Why not have the ability to do everything all at once, give everyone unlimited freedom and choice?

    Yeah, scrap all the player progression! Dedication, loyalty and patience are out of fashion!! Let everyone respawn in a new ship after death! The complex economy - get rid of it! All these systems are too complex for today's gamer! We need insta-gratifiaction and shiny rewards every 10 mouseclicks!!!11 NOW!!!
    Reiisha
    #164 - 2016-02-18 09:51:44 UTC
    Amy Farrah FowIer wrote:
    I suspect that investors want to see return. The money will not end up in the game, but on the accounts of investors.


    This is exactly one of my main concerns which has yet to be addressed.

    If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...
    Freelancer117
    So you want to be a Hero
    #165 - 2016-02-18 09:59:03 UTC
    CCP Falcon wrote:
    Demolishar wrote:
    Almost 3000 words. A pity that your great work will be locked for ranting soon.


    I don't really think this is a rant to be honest, and many of these points were discussed internally before the feature went live, or was fully fleshed out.

    I've also been with EVE for 13 years, ironically my first reaction to skillpoint trading was negative too, but it was a knee-jerk reaction from a 13 year veteran of the game who thought a change so fundamental would destroy everything he loved about EVE.

    I'm happy to say that I was wrong, and after I looked at the situation from what I consider to be a sensible point of view that came after my initial reaction, the rationale for it kind of fell into place and I now understand the system.

    There's a simple flaw with any "Pay To Win" argument against skill trading.

    A pilot who knows what they're doing with a Rifter and a 2 skillpoints can end the world for a clueless player with 300 million skillpoints. Put the average driver in an F1 car and they're not going to have the first idea of how to drive it, despite having a driver's license.

    All skillpoints do is unlock the ability to fly a given hull with a given weapon, or utilize a given module to a particular end. Using the ship and modules is where the skill lies, and is the key to victory or failure. That's what defines you as an EVE player.

    Being able to trade skillpoints and freely respec your character changes very little. What it does is allow people to keep their gameplay fresh and try new things, or gives new players a leg up to be able to try new things faster if they choose to do so.

    That's my take on it anyway, as a 13 year vet of EVE.

    Smile


    After seeing Ironbank Paying and Instantly getting all skills to level 5 within Three days of character day of Birth Ugh

    this Monetization feature the Company has done without a(ny) regard to Customer feedback on their own Forums

    made a lot of Capsuleers sad, and what's even more sad is that this opens the way for more chopping up and selling

    of Non-Vanity game core related elements for the cash shop, on top off subscription fees. This stinks of Greed and Hubris.

    source: http://eveboard.com/pilot/IronBank

    Regards, a Freelancer

    Eve online is :

    A) mining simulator B) glorified chatroom C) spreadsheets online

    D) CCP Games Pay to Win at skill leveling, with instant gratification

    http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg

    http://bit.ly/1egr4mF
    Nana Skalski
    Taisaanat Kotei
    EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
    #166 - 2016-02-18 10:00:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
    CCP Falcon wrote:
    Zifrian wrote:
    CCP Falcon wrote:
    Demolishar wrote:
    Almost 3000 words. A pity that your great work will be locked for ranting soon.


    I don't really think this is a rant to be honest, and many of these points were discussed internally before the feature went live, or was fully fleshed out.

    I've also been with EVE for 13 years, ironically my first reaction to skillpoint trading was negative too, but it was a knee-jerk reaction from a 13 year veteran of the game who thought a change so fundamental would destroy everything he loved about EVE.

    I'm happy to say that I was wrong, and after I looked at the situation from what I consider to be a sensible point of view that came after my initial reaction, the rationale for it kind of fell into place and I now understand the system.

    There's a simple flaw with any "Pay To Win" argument against skill trading.

    A pilot who knows what they're doing with a Rifter and a 2 skillpoints can end the world for a clueless player with 300 million skillpoints. Put the average driver in an F1 car and they're not going to have the first idea of how to drive it, despite having a driver's license.

    All skillpoints do is unlock the ability to fly a given hull with a given weapon, or utilize a given module to a particular end. Using the ship and modules is where the skill lies, and is the key to victory or failure. That's what defines you as an EVE player.

    Being able to trade skillpoints and freely respec your character changes very little. What it does is allow people to keep their gameplay fresh and try new things, or gives new players a leg up to be able to try new things faster if they choose to do so.

    That's my take on it anyway, as a 13 year vet of EVE.

    Smile

    Thanks for the perspective but without data, we won't know if the game is just allowing those with high SPs or ISK to benefit from this system. Is CCP going to do a dev blog in a month or two to show everyone who is using the injectors - new accounts, newbies or vets?, who paid for them - isk transfers or from wallet?, or how - PLEX purchases with RL money or from wallet isk?


    If a Dev blog with some statistics in it about how skill trading is being used and what kind of transfer is going on, that's something I can talk to the analytics team about in a few months once we have some solid data over a reasonably length of time.

    Smile


    Please do. Honestly, we will gladly hear about it even on Fanfest economic presentation.

    ᴇᴠᴇʀʏ ᴘᴀʀᴛ ᴏғ ᴀ ɢᴀᴍᴇ ʜᴇʟᴘs ᴛᴏ ᴛᴇʟʟ ᴀ sᴛᴏʀʏ 📕

    ᴡʜᴇʀᴇ ɪs ᴀɴɢʀʏ ᴄᴏɴᴄᴏʀᴅ ɢᴜʏ ᴡʜᴇɴ ʏᴏᴜ ɴᴇᴇᴅ ʜɪᴍ

    ᴏsᴘʀᴇʏ 🚀

    ≡⋁≡ ♥
    Algarion Getz
    Aideron Corp
    #167 - 2016-02-18 10:02:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Algarion Getz
    Ima Wreckyou wrote:
    CCP Falcon wrote:

    I've also been with EVE for 13 years, ironically my first reaction to skillpoint trading was negative too, but it was a knee-jerk reaction from a 13 year veteran of the game who thought a change so fundamental would destroy everything he loved about EVE.

    I'm happy to say that I was wrong, and after I looked at the situation from what I consider to be a sensible point of view that came after my initial reaction, the rationale for it kind of fell into place and I now understand the system.

    There's a simple flaw with any "Pay To Win" argument against skill trading.

    Seriously, now you speak to the players about this. After 3 months of silence and not addressing a single concern of the playerbase in the two other threads! There are a lot more concerns and they had all nothing to do with p2w. But for some reason you published the devblog and then went completely dark on the issue. It was pretty obvious that you don't care what people have to say.

    To come here now and tell us we should not worry because it's not p2w is like the other discussions did not even happen, it's like you did not pay attention at all and have no clue about the arguments on both sides. Do we really need to start over with a new threads and repeat all the same stuff we said in the couple of months since the initial devblog? Or can you simply say here and now that CCP does not care anyway, never intended this to be a discussion and that we actually all just waste our free time?

    *sign*
    I signed a post of a CODE member. Oh boy.
    Mr Epeen
    It's All About Me
    #168 - 2016-02-18 10:02:46 UTC
    Reiisha wrote:
    Amy Farrah FowIer wrote:
    I suspect that investors want to see return. The money will not end up in the game, but on the accounts of investors.


    This is exactly one of my main concerns which has yet to be addressed.
    The only concern you should have is this:

    Is the server that you rent a character on available when you want to play and is the game a satisfactory experience for the price of a sub/PLEX?

    If yes, then keep playing and stop complaining. If no, then stop playing and find a game that fits the aforementioned parameters.

    What a private company does with their money is of no concern to us. But I will say this, if investors expect to get a return on their money, then they must have given CCP money to keep the game up and the developers paid in the first place. Would you rather CCP didn't seek investment and went **** up instead?

    Mr Epeen Cool
    Mr Mieyli
    Doomheim
    #169 - 2016-02-18 10:10:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Mieyli
    Faster access to content is not going to equate to more fun like many people here are incorrectly thinking. It would seem so at first glance and we all know the experience of trying something new where it's all interesting and fun; however fun backed in novelty quickly disappears when the novelty wears thin. This is the problem most MMOs face in their expansion cycles. Create new dungeons, players find the new dungeons novel and fun, run them a few times, novelty is gone, back to being bored.

    In Eve the novel new experiences were hidden behind skill walls meaning that if you wanted to start mining you would have to train skills for the hull, modules, and any other prereqs which all added to the experience. Think of the hype before a new game release, it's the same sort of thing in your head when you picture your future self mining away to his hearts content. With the final "skill training complete" being a phrase burned into all of our memories.

    Now these waits have been removed and replaced, or at least sidestepped, with paywalls which may not be outright p2w but it is definitely p4advantage. If you have the cash you can try out any and all novelties at whatever pace your wallet will let you, this will all seem fun for a short while until the novelties have been spent and people get bored and leave. It's only a matter of time, not only that but old players who were attached to their character because of how many SP he had will no longer feel that attachment.

    Dark days ahead for EvE online.

    Edit: wrote trading instead of training, what is happening to me?

    This post brought to you by CCP's alpha forum alt initiative. Playing the eve forums has never come cheaper.
    Avvy
    Doomheim
    #170 - 2016-02-18 10:10:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Avvy
    Reiisha wrote:
    Amy Farrah FowIer wrote:
    I suspect that investors want to see return. The money will not end up in the game, but on the accounts of investors.


    This is exactly one of my main concerns which has yet to be addressed.


    I don't see why that should be a main concern.


    Not all the money that they make from EVE will go back into EVE. Same as any other games company.

    They have bills to pay, e.g. lighting, heating, wages etc.

    I should think their main focus is keeping their company healthy, if they can keep the company healthy they're able to look after EVE better.

    Someone used to say to me 'don't cross the bridge until you come to it' another words don't worry about it as it may never happen.
    Kyra Lee
    Doomheim
    #171 - 2016-02-18 10:10:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Kyra Lee
    In most pvp and even pve combat in eve there are a few deciding factors. I feel we can all agree they boil down to three main categories to form a trifecta. ISK, Skill Points, and Player Skill.

    ISK = Faction ships will perform better than T1 ships. Faction, Deadspace, and Officer mods will out perform T1 mods.
    SP = T2/T3 ships will out perform T1 ships. T2 weapons and mods will out perform T1 mods(not counting those that still need tiericide)
    Player Skill = A person that has been doing a particular task more often than another will generally be better at it.

    Back when eve started all three of these things where only obtainable by spending the time required to earn them. You had to kill NPCs, run NPC trade routes, and a few other things to generate ISK. SP was obtainable at a set rate based on your attributes, implants, and the learning skill.

    Then PLEX came out. Now you could spend real life money to gain isk. This created a shift in the Trifecta as now one corner of it could be thrown out of wack vs the other two. Player Skill being equal a T1 fit rifter will lose to a deadspace fit rifter as the fits take the same SP to use. ISK would be the only deciding factor in the fight, and that can now be bought by real life money. How is that not "pay for an advantage"?

    So we ended up with this:
    ISK(Bypassed with RL Money) = Faction ships will perform better than T1 ships. Faction, Deadspace, and Officer mods will out perform T1 mods.
    SP = T2/T3 ships will out perform T1 ships. T2 weapons, ammo, and mods will out perform T1 mods(not counting those that still need tiericide)
    Player Skill = A person that has been doing a particular task more often than another will generally be better at it.

    Then the SP Injectors came out. Now you could spend real life money to gain SP. This created a shift in the Trifecta as now two Corners of it could be thrown out of wack vs the other one. You could now inject SP to fly T2/T3 ships, use T2 modules, and get better performance out of T1 ships through hull bonuses. How does this work out for a day 1 rookie in a rifter vs day 1 rookie with SP injected flying a maxed skilled rifter with T2 mods and guns. I would bet 9 times out of 10 the T2 rifter will win that fight. How is that not "pay for an advantage"?

    So now we ended up with this:
    ISK(Bypassed with RL Money) = Faction ships will perform better than T1 ships. Faction, Deadspace, and Officer mods will out perform T1 mods.
    SP(Bypassed with RL Money) = T2/T3 ships will out perform T1 ships. T2 weapons, ammo, and mods will out perform T1 mods(not counting those that still need tiericide)
    Player Skill = A person that has been doing a particular task more often than another will generally be better at it.

    We now have two parts of the Trifecta able to be affected by using real life cash. I think this is one of the things that lots of people have a problem with. Sure there are lots of other things that people will complain about, but at the core of this and previous changes there exists the ability to alter the game world using real life money, and that is not acceptable.
    Nana Skalski
    Taisaanat Kotei
    EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
    #172 - 2016-02-18 10:15:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
    Quote:
    made a lot of Capsuleers sad

    You mean that a lot of sad people became even sadder?
    I have seen wording such as "honorable SP aquisition", "time lost", "CCP forgot to appreciate us veterans", and more of this emotional nonsense.

    As if some players came to realisation that its only a game. Their bittervett simulator was changed, as to make them less vet but more bitter, so they complain as is natural to them in this situation. So they protest by burning thru the PLEX to extract every SP and biomass in resignation, complaining that CCP made them do it, and now they are lacking sense of further life, sense that they were not really grasping thru all of those bittervet years.

    I may start thinking this change can be actually good for new characters, they will log in and make some more ISK to shorten the ridiculous training times for capitals or such...


    CCP the slaughterer of bittervets.

    ᴇᴠᴇʀʏ ᴘᴀʀᴛ ᴏғ ᴀ ɢᴀᴍᴇ ʜᴇʟᴘs ᴛᴏ ᴛᴇʟʟ ᴀ sᴛᴏʀʏ 📕

    ᴡʜᴇʀᴇ ɪs ᴀɴɢʀʏ ᴄᴏɴᴄᴏʀᴅ ɢᴜʏ ᴡʜᴇɴ ʏᴏᴜ ɴᴇᴇᴅ ʜɪᴍ

    ᴏsᴘʀᴇʏ 🚀

    ≡⋁≡ ♥
    Avvy
    Doomheim
    #173 - 2016-02-18 10:22:01 UTC
    Mr Epeen wrote:
    Reiisha wrote:
    Amy Farrah FowIer wrote:
    I suspect that investors want to see return. The money will not end up in the game, but on the accounts of investors.


    This is exactly one of my main concerns which has yet to be addressed.
    The only concern you should have is this:

    Is the server that you rent a character on available when you want to play and is the game a satisfactory experience for the price of a sub/PLEX?

    If yes, then keep playing and stop complaining. If no, then stop playing and find a game that fits the aforementioned parameters.

    What a private company does with their money is of no concern to us. But I will say this, if investors expect to get a return on their money, then they must have given CCP money to keep the game up and the developers paid in the first place. Would you rather CCP didn't seek investment and went **** up instead?

    Mr Epeen Cool


    +1


    If they didn't complain in this one I'm sure they would complain in the next.

    I get the feeling some people think they're share holders when they pay a subscription.
    Fergus Runkle
    Truth and Reconciliation Council
    #174 - 2016-02-18 10:23:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Fergus Runkle
    CCP Falcon wrote:

    If a Dev blog with some statistics in it about how skill trading is being used and what kind of transfer is going on, that's something I can talk to the analytics team about in a few months once we have some solid data over a reasonably length of time.

    Smile



    I'd like to see stats on the age of accounts / characters that are injecting SP. This is mechanism is probably aimed at rookies but I think Malcanis Law applies and it is likely being used a LOT more by vets.
    Johan Civire
    Caldari Provisions
    Caldari State
    #175 - 2016-02-18 10:24:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Johan Civire
    Nana Skalski wrote:
    Quote:
    made a lot of Capsuleers sad

    You mean that a lot of sad people became even sadder?
    I have seen wording such as "honorable SP aquisition", "time lost", "CCP forgot to appreciate us veterans", and more of this emotional nonsense.

    As if some players came to realisation that its only a game. Their bittervett simulator was changed, as to make them less vet but more bitter, so they complain as is natural to them in this situation. So they protest by burning thru the PLEX to extract every SP and biomass in resignation, complaining that CCP made them do it, and now they are lacking sense of further life, sense that they were not really grasping thru all of those bittervet years.

    I may start thinking this change can be actually good for new characters, they will log in and make some more ISK to shorten the ridiculous training times for capitals or such...


    CCP the slaughterer of bittervets.


    I agree on many things but for most people its work or second job or there virtual life some people have real feelings in a game yep those people exist iam afraid. So those are the people that destroyed almost eve online if the continue like this. Or (hardcore) people. Time to move on.

    Nokia stay also at the same level now there dead. Sell out. No innovation is a dead end of a game or anything. Deal with it or leave. New people will replace you. Thanks for you nonsense that comes.
    Algarion Getz
    Aideron Corp
    #176 - 2016-02-18 10:32:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Algarion Getz
    Avvy wrote:
    Reiisha wrote:
    Amy Farrah FowIer wrote:
    I suspect that investors want to see return. The money will not end up in the game, but on the accounts of investors.


    This is exactly one of my main concerns which has yet to be addressed.


    I don't see why that should be a main concern.


    Not all the money that they make from EVE will go back into EVE. Same as any other games company.

    They have bills to pay, e.g. lighting, heating, wages etc.

    I should think their main focus is keeping their company healthy, if they can keep the company healthy they're able to look after EVE better.

    Look at EVE's update history of the last 5 years. It contains mainly fixes and improvements of existing features. A few new ships every year and a ton of cosmetics. Thats it. Not one big content expansion like Apocrypha.

    I get the impression that most of EVE player's money goes into CCP's other projects like

    • World of Darkness (canceled after several years of develepment)
    • Dust 514 (a flop, servers will shut down in April)
    • Gunjack (in development)
    • Valkyrie (in development)
    • Legion (in development)

    Making new games costs a ton of money and EVE is CCP's only cash cow afaik.
    Avvy
    Doomheim
    #177 - 2016-02-18 10:42:56 UTC
    Algarion Getz wrote:
    Avvy wrote:
    Reiisha wrote:
    Amy Farrah FowIer wrote:
    I suspect that investors want to see return. The money will not end up in the game, but on the accounts of investors.


    This is exactly one of my main concerns which has yet to be addressed.


    I don't see why that should be a main concern.


    Not all the money that they make from EVE will go back into EVE. Same as any other games company.

    They have bills to pay, e.g. lighting, heating, wages etc.

    I should think their main focus is keeping their company healthy, if they can keep the company healthy they're able to look after EVE better.

    Look at EVE's update history of the last 5 years. It contains mainly fixes and improvements of existing features. A few new ships every year and a ton of cosmetics. Thats it. Not one big content expansion like Apocrypha.

    I get the impression that most of EVE player's money goes into CCP's other projects like

    • World of Darkness (canceled after several years of develepment)
    • Dust 514 (a flop, servers will shut down in April)
    • Gunjack (in development)
    • Valkyrie (in development)
    • Legion (in development)



    I agree their track record isn't exactly impressive.

    As for expansions, I thought they decided to do away with those in favour of smaller more regular updates.

    They've also had the issue of old code to replace, that in itself won't necessarily showup so much. Doesn't mean they're not working on it.

    As for does this game give you value for money, only you can decide that.
    Nana Skalski
    Taisaanat Kotei
    EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
    #178 - 2016-02-18 10:45:22 UTC
    Algarion Getz wrote:
    Avvy wrote:
    Reiisha wrote:
    Amy Farrah FowIer wrote:
    I suspect that investors want to see return. The money will not end up in the game, but on the accounts of investors.


    This is exactly one of my main concerns which has yet to be addressed.


    I don't see why that should be a main concern.


    Not all the money that they make from EVE will go back into EVE. Same as any other games company.

    They have bills to pay, e.g. lighting, heating, wages etc.

    I should think their main focus is keeping their company healthy, if they can keep the company healthy they're able to look after EVE better.

    Look at EVE's update history of the last 5 years. It contains mainly fixes and improvements of existing features. A few new ships every year and a ton of cosmetics. Thats it. Not one big content expansion like Apocrypha.

    I get the impression that most of EVE player's money goes into CCP's other projects like

    • World of Darkness (canceled after several years of develepment)
    • Dust 514 (a flop, servers will shut down in April)
    • Gunjack (in development)
    • Valkyrie (in development)
    • Legion (in development)

    WoD people were used for EVE projects, they complained so much about it.
    I dont think they lost on DUST. They have more experience in fps genre, leads to evolution into better plaform and better game, AUR sold is money in the bank.
    Gunjack can start profiting. For such a poor platform it is actually a nice looking game.
    Valkyrie can start profiting.
    Legion probably was not dead all this time they worked on features in DUST. For good.

    ᴇᴠᴇʀʏ ᴘᴀʀᴛ ᴏғ ᴀ ɢᴀᴍᴇ ʜᴇʟᴘs ᴛᴏ ᴛᴇʟʟ ᴀ sᴛᴏʀʏ 📕

    ᴡʜᴇʀᴇ ɪs ᴀɴɢʀʏ ᴄᴏɴᴄᴏʀᴅ ɢᴜʏ ᴡʜᴇɴ ʏᴏᴜ ɴᴇᴇᴅ ʜɪᴍ

    ᴏsᴘʀᴇʏ 🚀

    ≡⋁≡ ♥
    Lucas Kell
    Solitude Trading
    S.N.O.T.
    #179 - 2016-02-18 11:04:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Kell
    CCP Falcon wrote:
    I don't really think this is a rant to be honest, and many of these points were discussed internally before the feature went live, or was fully fleshed out.

    I've also been with EVE for 13 years, ironically my first reaction to skillpoint trading was negative too, but it was a knee-jerk reaction from a 13 year veteran of the game who thought a change so fundamental would destroy everything he loved about EVE.

    I'm happy to say that I was wrong, and after I looked at the situation from what I consider to be a sensible point of view that came after my initial reaction, the rationale for it kind of fell into place and I now understand the system.

    There's a simple flaw with any "Pay To Win" argument against skill trading.

    A pilot who knows what they're doing with a Rifter and a 2 skillpoints can end the world for a clueless player with 300 million skillpoints. Put the average driver in an F1 car and they're not going to have the first idea of how to drive it, despite having a driver's license.

    All skillpoints do is unlock the ability to fly a given hull with a given weapon, or utilize a given module to a particular end. Using the ship and modules is where the skill lies, and is the key to victory or failure. That's what defines you as an EVE player.

    Being able to trade skillpoints and freely respec your character changes very little. What it does is allow people to keep their gameplay fresh and try new things, or gives new players a leg up to be able to try new things faster if they choose to do so.

    That's my take on it anyway, as a 13 year vet of EVE.

    Smile
    I can't really think of any pay to win game where the players ability doesn't come into play. Pay to win isn't literally pay to get an I win button, it's pay for an advantage, and there's a strong advantage to having maxed out core skills. Take two players identical in ability but opposite ends of the SP spectrum and the one with the maxed out skillpoints will win over the lower one.

    The way I see it, this change benefits veterans by converting their now unused SP into ISK, players with cash by allowing them to buy a shortcut through the skill training process and CCP with an additional income stream. I don't think it's going to be the end of the game and I'm not really opposed to its existence, but let's not pretend it isn't what it is.

    The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

    Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
    Nat Silverguard
    Aideron Robotics
    Aideron Robotics.
    #180 - 2016-02-18 11:06:05 UTC
    Algarion Getz wrote:
    Avvy wrote:
    Reiisha wrote:
    Amy Farrah FowIer wrote:
    I suspect that investors want to see return. The money will not end up in the game, but on the accounts of investors.


    This is exactly one of my main concerns which has yet to be addressed.


    I don't see why that should be a main concern.


    Not all the money that they make from EVE will go back into EVE. Same as any other games company.

    They have bills to pay, e.g. lighting, heating, wages etc.

    I should think their main focus is keeping their company healthy, if they can keep the company healthy they're able to look after EVE better.

    Look at EVE's update history of the last 5 years. It contains mainly fixes and improvements of existing features. A few new ships every year and a ton of cosmetics. Thats it. Not one big content expansion like Apocrypha.

    I get the impression that most of EVE player's money goes into CCP's other projects like

    • World of Darkness (canceled after several years of develepment)
    • Dust 514 (a flop, servers will shut down in April)
    • Gunjack (in development)
    • Valkyrie (in development)
    • Legion (in development)

    Making new games costs a ton of money and EVE is CCP's only cash cow afaik.


    again, so what? that's none of your business.

    you paid to access eve servers for a time and you were able to do just that, deal is done, end of story.


    Just Add Water