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Always able to run? And no Concord? Unknowable missions?

First post
Author
Darth Terona
Fancypants Inc
Pandemic Horde
#81 - 2016-02-16 00:28:18 UTC
I'm fine with the way it is and I'm a solo pilot

As someone that only does pvp I can tell you that the number of times I'm in a fight that is faggoty is far outweighed by the number of fights I get in that I have options to manuver or otherwise out think my opponent to secure some margin of success.

That being said, I'm quite **** at it so the number of times I have maintained my composure to exploit these chances are marginal.
That don't mean they aren't there though.

Realizing these flaws in my piloting, and constantly learning and growing are a big part of what keeps me undocking for more.

Suggestions here would make my life as a solo pvp artist easier, yes.
But I do this because it is hard.
Eternus8lux8lucis
Duckzer Mining Corporation
RAZOR Alliance
#82 - 2016-02-16 01:07:00 UTC
The only solution Id come up with is this.... simply a chance to fail on new disruptors and scrams.


New skill Advanced Propulsion Jamming maybe a 5% bonus per level to success

New disruptors with +2 scram strength but DONT act like scrams do now so no shutting off MWDs but a range reduction. Say 15kms for T2, meta and T1 are lower and faction/DED/officer are more up to about 20kms Id say.

New scrams with +3 natural but range is 7.5kms for T2 with same spread.


The newness is that like ECM there is a chance to fail on every cycle and a failing cycle shuts the module off. This means that you have to reengage it after each failure providing not only RNG limits but human error in combat as well on top of it. Cycle times would be shortened to say 5s each so it would just simply be a module youd have to micromanage in combat.


Downsides: Why use it at all? All combat or PVE ships for the most part dont carry warp stabs anyways. A single point will usually hold them and it will never fail as long as you can keep range.

Who wants to micromanage more modules?

Failure rates means L5 for the new skill is mandatory, not optional really. Everyone whines they MUST train this like the learning skills to compete.

Bring friends and youll likely never have multiple cycle failures or having a mix of these and regular points would mean youd always capture and hold a target.

Upside: It is now a bit more of a chance for a target to get away 1v1.


So not really much upside for a lot of downsides. Having regular points/scrams work in such a way would cause a shitstorm for sure from the player base but would still be an interesting idea none the less. But I think itd be more a though experiment than a practical solution. People will hate the RNG/skill issues the most just like with ECM. But mah experience skillz!! Will be the cry refrain.

Because Eve is about set ups I think itd be more of the setup should be the thing to be made harder rather than the capture. Most fights are won or lost long before you get on grid imo. And that part of the game would be the thing that would be most interesting to change. That being said allowing some sort of chance issues in ALL areas of combat would be neat. Guns that jam and dont fire, random issues with shields, armor, or hull not just in ehp but in resist levels, random boosts like WH effects but limited to ships, mods, etc. Again the balance and coding of it would be intense and the trade off might not be worth it in the long run.

The randomness that makes life what it is, a random walk if you will, is an intriguing prospect but what do you gain with such issues? Now that we have unlimited skills maybe true randomness in gaming might be a thing. Procedurally generated worlds, coupled with fractal based growth patterns coupled with true RNG in all areas even at SUPER low levels for random time frames would present a very unique environment. But pity to the coders and balancers would be needed as they would need sympathy I think.Blink

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.

SurrenderMonkey
The Exchange Collective
Solyaris Chtonium
#83 - 2016-02-16 01:10:31 UTC
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:
The only solution Id come up with


Solution to what problem?

This is all predicated on the OP believing that there's just no way to escape a point, which is clearly false.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Darth Terona
Fancypants Inc
Pandemic Horde
#84 - 2016-02-16 03:27:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Terona
Sorry. Didn't read the post above all the way through

Snips
Chopper Rollins
hahahlolspycorp
Brave Collective
#85 - 2016-02-16 07:04:06 UTC
Fa Xian wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Should I assume that your KB tells the full story of your experience, then?


It can't. It doesn't show my wins. I win by avoiding and escaping. Your precious metric for judging doesn't define me or my playstyle.

But you think it does. If I'm not exactly like you, I'm worthless. That attitude has done a lot of good in the world.


OH PLEASE.
You get wrecked in this game and want it to change because it's uhhhhhhh 'boring'. Tens of thousands of people disagree but whatever.
Then you tell a guy what he's saying makes him wrong and a bad person and extend it to all the world's problems.
Your last loss is an industrial with 700m worth of stuff and a single faction gun in one of the highslots.
Use a scout and stop being ridiculously bad.
Do away with points indeed.



Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
#86 - 2016-02-16 07:07:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Poddington Bare wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
when I was working in Lloyds of London

Dracvlad wrote:
What pray tell is a barleyjack?


When I was...

...CEO of a Fortune 500 company*...
...secretly cured cancer and witheld it so big Pharma could cash in*...
...negotiated an interstellar peace treaty with secret Chinese colony on Mars*...
...invented the United Nations*...

*delete as applicable

...I learned to use the internet.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=barleyjack


My word you are a total loon, Lloyds of London is not a Fortune 500 company (wrong country for a start), it was at the time small entities Syndicates of wealthy people investing in insurance, I was an entry boy, interesting term that always got a giggle out of me, basically I was recording the data from slips onto our paper record system. Internet did not exist then either and we used punch cards, when I started working there it was a place of character with colourful characters who were normally the less intelligent upper class in the UK, I loved the place to bits, worked there for 6 years.

Saw the LMX death spiral in action which reminds me of credit default swaps, but I guess you're too stupid to understand that, go and look that up on the Internet...

So you can look up a word on the internet, big deal I wanted bumble to say what it meant

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Chopper Rollins
hahahlolspycorp
Brave Collective
#87 - 2016-02-16 07:09:03 UTC
Fa Xian wrote:
I don't need fitting advice; I have MWD cloak ships in hangars now. I was set up for a different kind of engagement.


No. Three stabs, an ecm mid and a faction turret is not a fit for any engagement.
Also it was a lowsec gate.
Personally i scout through in a noobship. But i'm wrong, yeah yeah i know.
Dude, it was a lowsec gate.


Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.

Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
#88 - 2016-02-16 07:12:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Kuronaga
Personally I think it'd be a more interesting concept if a ship had a spool-up time for the warp drive similar to how aligning works now. But if you happened to take a certain degree of damage, the spool-up would malfunction and reset to a much longer timer.


Not a clue how one makes that fair without targetable subsystems, or some kind of special ammo though.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
#89 - 2016-02-16 07:15:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Bumblefck wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Bumblefck wrote:

I presume you reported my post hence the highlight., one can use turns of phrase without people getting all offended, its what adults do, when I was working in Lloyds of London I used to get a broker come up and say hello ladies, it was affectionate you know, he was a real sweetie too, used to have two pairs of glasses hanging on a chain.

What pray tell is a barleyjack?



Sorry, you presume wrong

Quote:
one can use turns of phrase without people getting all offended


Really? So language is a completely objective artefact, that has one meaning (in this case, the situation you outlined), and no other? You do realise that the context in which you used it originally was completely different to that which you just outlined now - basically, that of ladies somehow being twittering idiots running around mindlessly. Shall I refresh your memory?

[quote]then some lame twit will come along and war dec you to be cheered on by other ladies


It's really obvious what you're insinuating with this phrase.

By the way, you've proven my initial point about language being completely subjective and meaning different things to different people.


I was being affectionate in a role playing way using this wonderful man's use of the English language. Personally I find the HTFU group rather quaint in a pit bull terrier kinda way. I can't help it if you take it differently to what I intended and get all offended. How you detailed it which I underlined for effect sounds like you have a problem not me.

Seriously you need to grow up, you are my dear sir a cracking bore of the first order.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
#90 - 2016-02-16 07:21:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:
The only solution Id come up with is this.... simply a chance to fail on new disruptors and scrams.


New skill Advanced Propulsion Jamming maybe a 5% bonus per level to success

New disruptors with +2 scram strength but DONT act like scrams do now so no shutting off MWDs but a range reduction. Say 15kms for T2, meta and T1 are lower and faction/DED/officer are more up to about 20kms Id say.

New scrams with +3 natural but range is 7.5kms for T2 with same spread.


The newness is that like ECM there is a chance to fail on every cycle and a failing cycle shuts the module off. This means that you have to reengage it after each failure providing not only RNG limits but human error in combat as well on top of it. Cycle times would be shortened to say 5s each so it would just simply be a module youd have to micromanage in combat.


Downsides: Why use it at all? All combat or PVE ships for the most part dont carry warp stabs anyways. A single point will usually hold them and it will never fail as long as you can keep range.

Who wants to micromanage more modules?

Failure rates means L5 for the new skill is mandatory, not optional really. Everyone whines they MUST train this like the learning skills to compete.

Bring friends and youll likely never have multiple cycle failures or having a mix of these and regular points would mean youd always capture and hold a target.

Upside: It is now a bit more of a chance for a target to get away 1v1.


So not really much upside for a lot of downsides. Having regular points/scrams work in such a way would cause a shitstorm for sure from the player base but would still be an interesting idea none the less. But I think itd be more a though experiment than a practical solution. People will hate the RNG/skill issues the most just like with ECM. But mah experience skillz!! Will be the cry refrain.

Because Eve is about set ups I think itd be more of the setup should be the thing to be made harder rather than the capture. Most fights are won or lost long before you get on grid imo. And that part of the game would be the thing that would be most interesting to change. That being said allowing some sort of chance issues in ALL areas of combat would be neat. Guns that jam and dont fire, random issues with shields, armor, or hull not just in ehp but in resist levels, random boosts like WH effects but limited to ships, mods, etc. Again the balance and coding of it would be intense and the trade off might not be worth it in the long run.

The randomness that makes life what it is, a random walk if you will, is an intriguing prospect but what do you gain with such issues? Now that we have unlimited skills maybe true randomness in gaming might be a thing. Procedurally generated worlds, coupled with fractal based growth patterns coupled with true RNG in all areas even at SUPER low levels for random time frames would present a very unique environment. But pity to the coders and balancers would be needed as they would need sympathy I think.Blink


A man of intelligence, I did not have the will power to further explain the ECM suggestion to the Pit Bull group but you sir did so and have my utter respect. Nicely explained ideas, bit different to what I suggested but good ideas.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
#91 - 2016-02-16 08:00:47 UTC
Annemariela Antonela wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Also, upon further reflection, you're already "always able to run".

If you're scrammed and burning away from the other guy, you're running. If you can't outrun him, you're still running... you're just being outrun.

Entering warp isn't just running - you are nigh invincible in a warp tunnel.

So, your suggestion is more accurately read as either..."Always able to run faster than the other guym" or, alternatively, "Always able to achieve temporary invulnerability."

The former is clearly nonsensical. We clearly can't have a situation where two people are always capable of outrunning each other.

The latter is even worse, from a gameplay perspective.


How about a big blue button that instantly heals your ship and breaks lock, linked to your credit card. Say two bucks a pop.


PvP flag for consensual PvP only .... I'm sure someone will throw this into the discussion anytime now.

Don't anger the forum gods.

ISD Buldath:

> I Saw, I came, I Frowned, I locked, I posted, and I left.

Poddington Bare
Infinite Destruction.
Unspoken Alliance.
#92 - 2016-02-16 09:43:40 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Prattling guff.


You're funny. But not in the way you imagine.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
#93 - 2016-02-16 10:05:48 UTC
Poddington Bare wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Prattling guff.


You're funny. But not in the way you imagine.


It is best that you stick to one liners, it is safer for you Big smileRoll

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Bunnie Hop
Bunny Knights
#94 - 2016-02-16 10:52:39 UTC
Whether you agree with OP or not is MEH (my pseudo word of the month), I love reading people's idea. With ideas come dialogue and with dialogue comes even better ideas. I think its safe to say a lot of what we experience in the Eve universe started out as nothing more than a forum post of ideas. So keep posting your ideas and again, MEH to the trolls.

ps: My idea would be for more space bunnies, more bunnies is always a good thing. P
Ibutho Inkosi
Doomheim
#95 - 2016-02-16 11:17:54 UTC
What if no webs/scrams? "He who fight and run away live to fight another day?" Hmmm:

Engagements would then resemble real world naval history, which certainly has no 100% chance at anything.

The absurdity of two mods more powerful than any of our weapons "pretending to only" be able to affect propulsion, when they obviously infiltrate the shields (still up) the armor (still intact) and the hull (still intact) to "enter" the ship itself...think about it.

Gankers would have a very hard time devising a way to circumvent the mechanics to "generate content" using juvenile means that make the majority of all other "technology" in the game useless. Dunsels.

Only substantial, pre-planned, pre-organized a la Sun Tzu combat, or truly willing combat would ensue.

All the digitally brave guys running their mouths/keyboards about risk aversion, carebears, and how they're saving humanity with their "emergent game play" would at last be able to PUT UP OR SHUT UP, by not FLEEING a battle and allowing their apt opponent the kill shot...yeah...as if.

Lot's would happen if you dropped the two My Little Pony Magic Mods the "tough guys" can't live without.

You might have to actually THINK to play this GAME!

Yeah, right. And, pigs might fly out my butt.

As long as the tale of the hunt is told by the hunter, and not the lion, it will favor the hunter.

Neuntausend
Rens Nursing Home
#96 - 2016-02-16 14:28:59 UTC
Oh, now it's realism again.

Thing is - in Eve you cannot surround a position, cut off someones way of retreat, block someones path like Sun Tzu might have. They just hit warp and warp straight through everything in their way. Your whole "you'd have to think" argument would hold some water if there were other methods to prevent someone from going somewhere, but there aren't.

You know what really requires players to think? Disruptors, scrams and webs. Do you want to be in range of those, or don't you?
Takari
Resource Warring
#97 - 2016-02-16 15:00:30 UTC
Fa Xian wrote:


Unless you're into one sided, boring fights so lopsided the only way to make them work is that you have to force the loser to keep playing to get your enjoyment.

Or did you mean you like Concord showing up to defend you?


The former, I rarely go anywhere where Concord is an issue, but holding onto people so they can't leave? That's my bread and butter baby.

Also the flip-side. If I'm flying through, get pointed/scrammed, try like hell to get out of range, fail, get blowed up. That is Love.

The only way to escape, is to not have shown up.

"Roll the dice, don't think twice. This is the way of things. Welcome to EVE." ~ CCP Falcon

"Good luck, shoot straight and don't back down." - Serendipity Lost

Ibutho Inkosi
Doomheim
#98 - 2016-02-16 15:07:04 UTC
I love how the addicts puff themselves up and say things like "realism?" They like realism when it suits their ganking method. They cry foul and OP if it doesn't. Short Attention Span Theater at its finest.

As long as the tale of the hunt is told by the hunter, and not the lion, it will favor the hunter.

SurrenderMonkey
The Exchange Collective
Solyaris Chtonium
#99 - 2016-02-16 15:55:15 UTC
Ibutho Inkosi wrote:
What if no webs/scrams? "He who fight and run away live to fight another day?" Hmmm:

Engagements would then resemble real world naval history, which certainly has no 100% chance at anything.


There's no 100% chance of anything now, except 100% chance of invulnerability while in a warp tunnel (some smartbomb weirdness aside).

As I said before, you can already run away. The difficulty is that you have to actually run faster than your pursuer. The OP was not asking for the ability to always be able to run, he was asking for the ability to always be able to escape by employing the cunning tactic of clicking a universally available UI button.

Quote:

Gankers would have a very hard time devising a way to circumvent the mechanics to "generate content" using juvenile means that make the majority of all other "technology" in the game useless. Dunsels.


Ah. That's what this is about. Roll Guess we've found the slowest gazelle at the watering hole. Lol

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
#100 - 2016-02-16 15:58:24 UTC
Fa Xian wrote:
Nat Silverguard wrote:
you're drunk OP, go home.


No, I'm a game designer. I'm just calling out design flaws.


In eve, everyone's a game designer Cool

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*