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Dev blog: The EVE Online API Challenge

First post
Author
Selaria Unbertable
Bellator in Capsulam
#21 - 2016-02-17 11:17:09 UTC
Lutz wrote:
isn't 3 weeks or so a bit of a very short time to develop it?


Kind of agree on this, it's a bit short. I mean writing a working parser for both the XML and CREST Api isn't something you do within a few minutes, that takes some time (and more time debugging it)...

I've got a working XML/CREST Api library lying around I wrote for another project of mine, now I just need an idea -.-
Ali 2k
Triton Heavy Industries
#22 - 2016-02-17 11:21:19 UTC
Will Planetary Interaction be available in the CREST API within the timeframe of this challenge?
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#23 - 2016-02-17 11:23:27 UTC
Ali 2k wrote:
Will Planetary Interaction be available in the CREST API within the timeframe of this challenge?


No.

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
#24 - 2016-02-17 12:17:58 UTC
Dear all,

As someone who is not good at coding, I would like to leave an Idea

I would like to have a standalone app that syncs characters between alts.
Working with a left and a right bank (like Total Commander) and when you hit SYNC button you get a conflict resolution overview.
Then you can decide on a case by case bases to SYNC left or right, or all left to right, or all right to left;
This way you could manage your character's contacts between alts very easily.

I don't know if it is possible, but this would be great for Locations and Notes on characters too.

Thx for reading.





"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X

"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron

-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-

Ali 2k
Triton Heavy Industries
#25 - 2016-02-19 17:29:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Ali 2k
Will the SSO/Oath documentation for non-browser apps be updated within the timeframe of this challenge?

http://eveonline-third-party-documentation.readthedocs.org/en/latest/sso/nonbrowserapps/
Adria Blue
Digital Fiction
#26 - 2016-02-19 22:52:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Adria Blue
Would making an API interface class that allows the creation of apps be able to enter? Or does the entry have to be an actual application for a particular purpose?
Blacksmoke16
Resilience.
#27 - 2016-02-20 11:45:53 UTC
@CCP Foxfour

Has the issues with the CREST Location endpoint been fixed, as discussed in this post?

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6274873#post6274873
Nlex
Domini Canium
#28 - 2016-02-20 20:49:02 UTC
Tranquillity Blade sounds like a legendary weapon.
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#29 - 2016-02-20 21:57:50 UTC
Khanadien Karlov wrote:
Why MIT license? Why not GPL?


Because GPL is a nightmare to use on any project that may have some stuff "linked" that you don't want to release.

Some idiot said that *linking* to something makes it a derivative work (RS in fact). Despite the fact that many lawyers have said that it is stupid, (it would be like Britannica claiming copyright on anything that reference their encyclopedia), no one wants to touch it in this context.

So BSD/MIT licenses are preferred were there is some context where some code will never be released (ie eve or some other websites core code) But still you want to release some of it with modifications.

Seriously our lawyers where very much on the idea of either keep it all open, and they meant *everything* and publish it all, or release nothing (GPL does not require you publish any change if you keep it all to your self.) Go to court and probably win after 20Million and a **** ton of bad PR. Or stick to BSD/MIT code. Even LGPL/classpath exception is a bit of pain.

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.

Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#30 - 2016-02-20 21:59:27 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:


2.5 weeks should be more than enough to knock a proof of concept together. Think of it more like a game jam than building a full featured application.


Game jams Rock. In fact i may just set aside 2-3 days for this. I have had many little ideas for something like this over the years.

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.

CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#31 - 2016-02-21 13:33:18 UTC
Blacksmoke16 wrote:
@CCP Foxfour

Has the issues with the CREST Location endpoint been fixed, as discussed in this post?

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6274873#post6274873


Unfortunately no. :(

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

Carbon Alabel
Gemini Talon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#32 - 2016-02-21 16:10:49 UTC
I'm looking forward to presenting my submission and looking at what the other contestants will make :D
In the meanwhile, I have a couple of questions:

What are your thoughts on the possibility of contestants listing a friend who had little or nothing to do with the development of the submission as a team member in order to double the rewards should they win one of the prizes?

Why use Google forms for accepting submissions, since they have no access control and make attempts at tampering much easier? A simple SSO app would have done the trick ;)

Can one of the top three entries also win the CCP Seagull's choice award or are the two mutually exclusive? What would someone do with two identical signed books?

Considering the long time span you allocated for judging the submissions, I'm assuming you will be studying all the submissions in detail. Will the submissions outside of the top three also be ranked or will they be published at all? Also, may we know which CCP employees will be judging the submissions?

"By entering a submission, you grant CCP the right to use your name for advertising and marketing purposes, without additional compensation, unless otherwise prohibited by law." Does this refer to the name of my character or to my real name? I'd very much like my real name to stay out of this.

I'm sorry, this turned out to be a lot more of much longer questions than I first had in mind.
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#33 - 2016-02-22 11:33:19 UTC
Carbon Alabel wrote:
What are your thoughts on the possibility of contestants listing a friend who had little or nothing to do with the development of the submission as a team member in order to double the rewards should they win one of the prizes?


Not much we can do to stop this.

Carbon Alabel wrote:
Why use Google forms for accepting submissions, since they have no access control and make attempts at tampering much easier? A simple SSO app would have done the trick ;)


I am the only one with the ability to edit the responses. The "worst" someone could do is submit an application under someone elses name... but if the same app gets submitted twice it shouldn't be hard to figure out who the original author is. Especially since I am looking at each one every day. :)


Carbon Alabel wrote:
Can one of the top three entries also win the CCP Seagull's choice award or are the two mutually exclusive? What would someone do with two identical signed books?


No, you can only win once.

Carbon Alabel wrote:
Considering the long time span you allocated for judging the submissions, I'm assuming you will be studying all the submissions in detail. Will the submissions outside of the top three also be ranked or will they be published at all? Also, may we know which CCP employees will be judging the submissions?


Outside the top 3 they will not be ranked no. I am also not comfortable talking about who the judges will be at this point. Will probably mention it when we publish a dev blog but not right now.

Carbon Alabel wrote:
"By entering a submission, you grant CCP the right to use your name for advertising and marketing purposes, without additional compensation, unless otherwise prohibited by law." Does this refer to the name of my character or to my real name? I'd very much like my real name to stay out of this.


That is basically a line from our lawyers. I am hoping to link to all of the Git repos when done and those do require a license and I believe your name has to be in that. I have no intention of ever mentioning anyones real name or character name. If we ever were to say anything it would only be character names but I fear since we are linking to a Git repo a real name could be figured out. Open to suggestions on how to better handle this.

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

Carbon Alabel
Gemini Talon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#34 - 2016-02-22 15:39:17 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:
That is basically a line from our lawyers. I am hoping to link to all of the Git repos when done and those do require a license and I believe your name has to be in that. I have no intention of ever mentioning anyones real name or character name. If we ever were to say anything it would only be character names but I fear since we are linking to a Git repo a real name could be figured out. Open to suggestions on how to better handle this.

Releasing under a pseudonym? That's what I'm doing. I'm already operating dual accounts on many services to split my real life and EVE related activities, and I've recently done so on GitHub as well. I believe most legal systems don't make a significant distinction between releasing under your real name or under a pseudonym, and I don't see a reason why that pseudonym wouldn't be my character's name.

Also, I have another question: Does the 2nd place prize, a "Winners choice of Super Capital SKIN" only include those SKINs which can be purchased in the New Eden Store for Aurum, or does it also include the other two limited edition SKINs, namely the Nyx Umbral SKIN and the Sansha Victory SKIN?
NUBIARN
Brutal Ballerinas
#35 - 2016-02-22 18:03:39 UTC
having a play with the crest stuff atm, interesting learning curve from xml to JSON. pretty much got the public stuff under my belt, tbh documentation is a tad scarce but oh well we engineers never are that good at paperwork ! Lol

so now playing with the authetication stuff, so my question is what do I put in the callback URL if I`m writing say a desktop app, err think win10 app, therefore no callback url available, this is proably obvious but I don't seem to be able to figure this point out.
Ali 2k
Triton Heavy Industries
#36 - 2016-02-22 18:31:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Ali 2k
NUBIARN wrote:
having a play with the crest stuff atm, interesting learning curve from xml to JSON. pretty much got the public stuff under my belt, tbh documentation is a tad scarce but oh well we engineers never are that good at paperwork ! Lol

so now playing with the authetication stuff, so my question is what do I put in the callback URL if I`m writing say a desktop app, err think win10 app, therefore no callback url available, this is proably obvious but I don't seem to be able to figure this point out.


I've got around this by sending the callback URL to a php page on my own web server where the user grabs the authentication token and pastes it into the desktop app - not the prettiest user flow but it works..

Another solution I considered was using http://localhost as the callback URL and setting up a http listener to listen for the callback..
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#37 - 2016-02-22 22:28:31 UTC
Carbon Alabel wrote:
CCP FoxFour wrote:
That is basically a line from our lawyers. I am hoping to link to all of the Git repos when done and those do require a license and I believe your name has to be in that. I have no intention of ever mentioning anyones real name or character name. If we ever were to say anything it would only be character names but I fear since we are linking to a Git repo a real name could be figured out. Open to suggestions on how to better handle this.

Releasing under a pseudonym? That's what I'm doing. I'm already operating dual accounts on many services to split my real life and EVE related activities, and I've recently done so on GitHub as well. I believe most legal systems don't make a significant distinction between releasing under your real name or under a pseudonym, and I don't see a reason why that pseudonym wouldn't be my character's name.

Also, I have another question: Does the 2nd place prize, a "Winners choice of Super Capital SKIN" only include those SKINs which can be purchased in the New Eden Store for Aurum, or does it also include the other two limited edition SKINs, namely the Nyx Umbral SKIN and the Sansha Victory SKIN?


A pseudonym is perfect and I would really recommend people do that if they don't want to link real names to EVE names. I will admit I don't think much about this as I don't care and have linked RL to EVE for a long time. So hearing other people talk about this stuff is always interesting to me.

That would be choice of super capital skin from the NES sorry.

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#38 - 2016-02-22 22:31:05 UTC
Ali 2k wrote:
NUBIARN wrote:
having a play with the crest stuff atm, interesting learning curve from xml to JSON. pretty much got the public stuff under my belt, tbh documentation is a tad scarce but oh well we engineers never are that good at paperwork ! Lol

so now playing with the authetication stuff, so my question is what do I put in the callback URL if I`m writing say a desktop app, err think win10 app, therefore no callback url available, this is proably obvious but I don't seem to be able to figure this point out.


I've got around this by sending the callback URL to a php page on my own web server where the user grabs the authentication token and pastes it into the desktop app - not the prettiest user flow but it works..


This is the solution I have always been most fond of. Another way to do it is have your application request a unique and short lived identifier from a server you host and pass that as a URL parameter to the SSO when you direct the user to log in. When the user is directed to your web site with the unique identifier you use that to know what app the user is associated with and you send a secure message to the app with the authorization information.

So long as you have a secure way of talking between your app and a server you control it can work really well.

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

NUBIARN
Brutal Ballerinas
#39 - 2016-02-23 18:21:38 UTC
thank you for the helpful replies, it is appreciated.

I don't want to derail the contest thread as I think it is a really good idea to push the crest functionality and has pushed me to try it out, mainly as I really enjoy the XML api, and have learned so many useful real life tradable skills that have helped my day to day job, great to learn stuff from a pastime with data that is complex but understandable from game experience.

I like the way crest is set out and think I may start using JSON instead of XML so cool beans, the crest api is expandable and once over the initial hurdle pretty easy to use, and contains a lot of easy to navigate information.

the one downfall I see from the crest stuff thou is this authentication system effectively meaning anyone wanting to use restricted data in their application would have to effectively run a web server to cope with the authentication system, that is assuming I now understand the call-back system. well great if you application is a web site, not so good if you app is desktop / phone or tablet based. I had a multitude of ideas for a win10 universal apps [I like this platform a lot], but the authentication system seems to negate this use.

so back to my original question, how do I use authenticated crest with no access to a server for the call-back url ?

apologies if this seems like a moan however I am either mssing the point which is quite possible or the authenticated crest is a non starter for apps that don't have a website.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#40 - 2016-02-23 22:51:31 UTC
While I was originally planning on entering into this, I'm afraid I've decided against developing a third party application. A CCP dev blog posted today has explained that third party applications that can be used to provide an unfair advantage over players not using the application can result in bans. With this in mind I cannot in good conscience produce any third party application, as almost every available use of CREST or the EVE API could be used by a player to gain an unfair advantage. For example market information aggregation will allow a trader using the program to more rapidly identify trade opportunities than a player without the application, and war/kill information would more rapidly provide an application user with intel than a non-application user.

CCP, you should really consider why you are allowing such easily exploited information through CREST when clearly the use of such data in a third party application would be a severe breach of the EULA.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

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