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Dev blog: Reworking Capital Ships: Skills, Modules and Refitting

First post
Author
Mr Rive
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#141 - 2016-02-13 10:34:49 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Surely your analysis relies on Links working as they do at present?



No, not really.

Unless there is something amazing on the horizon, which I doubt, adding any kind of warfare link capacity to a ship which is designed for repping, and is, IN CCP's words, 'designed to die' is mental.

Just give us a ship which is tailored for triage, please, for the love of god. It's not much to ask.
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#142 - 2016-02-13 10:44:28 UTC
What would be the ship bonuses for classic carriers after remote rep role is given to FAX.

any link for such info?

thx in advance.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP

Mr Rive
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#143 - 2016-02-13 10:45:20 UTC
Captain StringfellowHawk wrote:

Except the Fax will be using an Actual warfare link that doesn't run out of probe/charge/link ammo unlike the Command Destroyer in the near future. That CD is good until it hits Reload, and I am sure you do not want to keep a CD sitting in the middle of your Cap fleet just to fire off Boost probes. Remember from the Podcast Command destroyer will become the Boost launching version of an Interdictor.
Eris = Interdiction probes
Magus = Boost probes
FAX = link that can always apply boosts within the area of effect range. Figure like a Big ole Hictor bubble of boost if they follow the methods of the Interdictor and Heavy Interdictor mechanics.


Honestly, whatever changes theyre making to links, I couldn't care less. If they wanted a command carrier, they should have made a command carrier faction version.

It's going to be hard enough to fly these bloody things without having to surrender 2 role bonus slots for warfare links.

It just seems like they did what they always do with logicsitcs, and have done for years, and tacked them on at the end, after adding all the 'cool explodey features' to other capital ships, and then realized 'oh crap we forgot we wanted links on carriers now! F*** it give them to the FAUX its not like anyone cares'

WELL I CARE GODDAMN IT, THIS WAS MEANT TO BE MY MOMENT.
D3m0n sam
Island Monkeys
Evictus Associates
#144 - 2016-02-13 10:45:22 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
Quote:
If you've already purchased a Force Auxiliary skillbook, the purchase price and any skillpoints trained will be refunded.


When will the current FAX skills get removed and reimbursed? It seems to me that this should be patched fairly soon. If it is not, people should be able to build up quite a few allocatable skillpoints between patches.



You will most likely have to wait a bit.

They will need to query the server to get a list of all the names of people that have brought the skillbooks / injected skills into them.

I would expect a week or two.
D3m0n sam
Island Monkeys
Evictus Associates
#145 - 2016-02-13 10:55:31 UTC
What will happen with the original Fighter skillbook will this apply to the damage of squadrons?
Forlorn Wongraven
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#146 - 2016-02-13 10:56:56 UTC
Are fitted rigs on carriers with a triage module gonna be transferred or are they gonna get nuked?

Winner ATXI , 3rd place ATXII, winner ATXIII, 2nd ATXIV - follow me on twitter: @ForlornW

Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#147 - 2016-02-13 11:47:32 UTC
onefineday wrote:
Am sorry but you make no sense regarding forbidding fittings, eve fights never 10 vs 10 most of the time battle field in eve has few different doctrines and only way to outclass your enemy in this game is by adapting to ever changing battle including your fittings, thats a reason smaller more advance forces still have an capability to fight blobs adapt and win. Commitment part to battlefield comes from your enemy's doctors and bublers and spread points no matter the fitting. Removing chance of refit on mid fight will make those fights shorter as fighting groups will have much less flexibility. But i guess thats what you want ccp Sad

given itll apply to both sides ull just have to adapt differently to changing situations.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#148 - 2016-02-13 12:10:22 UTC
D3m0n sam wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:
Quote:
If you've already purchased a Force Auxiliary skillbook, the purchase price and any skillpoints trained will be refunded.


When will the current FAX skills get removed and reimbursed? It seems to me that this should be patched fairly soon. If it is not, people should be able to build up quite a few allocatable skillpoints between patches.



You will most likely have to wait a bit.

They will need to query the server to get a list of all the names of people that have brought the skillbooks / injected skills into them.

I would expect a week or two.


The longer they wait, the more SP I will have I can allocate wherever I want. With my current remap (Per/Will), I can train the new Fighter skills faster by training Fleet Auxiliary skills now and then reallocating those SP than I can train the new Fighter skills themselves (2700 SP/hour versus 2280 SP/hour).

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#149 - 2016-02-13 12:11:32 UTC
Mr Rive wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Surely your analysis relies on Links working as they do at present?



No, not really.

Unless there is something amazing on the horizon, which I doubt, adding any kind of warfare link capacity to a ship which is designed for repping, and is, IN CCP's words, 'designed to die' is mental.

Just give us a ship which is tailored for triage, please, for the love of god. It's not much to ask.


I guess I just don't see why you've got your knickers in such a twist about it. It's not like it's costing you anything that FAX can, if they want to, fit links. Is Grath telling you that you will be forced to fit them? Are you being threatened?

Listen, blink twice if you're being threated.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Tyranis Marcus
Bloody Heathens
#150 - 2016-02-13 12:40:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyranis Marcus
Good news on removing in-combat refitting. Instead of basing it on the weapons timer, how about the limited engagement timer? One minute after deaggressing isn't really long enough. It would still be done in combat a lot. Five minutes isn't unreasonable after combat ends. That way there is that commitment you were talking about, but still the option of refitting in space soon after a fight. Plus, the target couldn't just deaggress and wait out a timer; enemies shooting him would keep the timer running so in-combat refitting will be cancelled for real, not just for people who can't last for 60 seconds.

This issue really shouldn't be handled in a cap ship focus group. The majority of combat in Eve doesn't involve them, while this change affects everyone. Just make sure not to crap on the little guys to keep the cap pilots from going bat-**** crazy. (They're mostly bat-**** crazy already. Just ask them!)

Do not run. We are your friends.

Lugh Crow-Slave
#151 - 2016-02-13 13:41:34 UTC
D3m0n sam wrote:
What will happen with the original Fighter skillbook will this apply to the damage of squadrons?


Why do puerile not red the blogs b4 posting
Mr Rive
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#152 - 2016-02-13 14:22:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Rive
Malcanis wrote:
Mr Rive wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Surely your analysis relies on Links working as they do at present?



No, not really.

Unless there is something amazing on the horizon, which I doubt, adding any kind of warfare link capacity to a ship which is designed for repping, and is, IN CCP's words, 'designed to die' is mental.

Just give us a ship which is tailored for triage, please, for the love of god. It's not much to ask.


I guess I just don't see why you've got your knickers in such a twist about it. It's not like it's costing you anything that FAX can, if they want to, fit links. Is Grath telling you that you will be forced to fit them? Are you being threatened?

Listen, blink twice if you're being threated.



How can you not see that sacrificing 2 role bonuses on a ship that is meant to be dedicated for triage is costing fax quite a lot in fact?

It's not like theyve added this on as a bonus feature. Three role bonuses are standard for carriers now, so instead of using it on two things which can help a triage pilot, theyve done something that can negatively affect the ship by giving it an awful bonus that when used directly detriments its ability to remote rep.

Your point would stand if the ship had 5 role bonuses, because that would mean they had given the option to add links to the hull, but there are literally dozens of better options for those role bonuses from a triage point of view, and it just adds to the headache of flying a triage carrier. I've already listed several role bonuses which wouldn't make the FAUXes overpowered, but would ease back the tactical problems of using such a ship, which is often incredibly hectic, and will be even more so from a combat point of veiw now we can't refit while aggroed.

CCP said they are willing to tweak this ship, and they need to, because im telling you now that regardless of the new ideas they have for links, no triage pilot who is trying to rep is going to use them on their ship.

The ONLY way these are going to be used is if a dedicated link fauxs is brought with the fleet, and that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. On a ship, which, in CCP's own words, is 'meant to die', no one in their right mind is going to rely on it's links. No way, not gonna happen, have fun with your wasted bonuses.
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#153 - 2016-02-13 15:39:13 UTC
In the current era of carriers Gallente and Minmatar carriers are at a huge disadvantage or should I say suffer from usefullness problems. Before I go on I just want to say that I ran a mass carrier production effort for several years so I feel like I have a decent handle on what sells and what does not when it comes to carriers.

Gallente carriers with their drone bonus may be able to be made into decent solo ratting platforms but not really all that much better than a properly fit faction or T2 BS. And when you consider how long it takes them to warp from site to site maybe not as good. When it comes to Triage mode without the ability to cap trans at the same range as their tank trans combined with the lack of a tank bonus they fall behind the Amarr and Caldari versions.

The Nidhoggur seemed to me like there were situations where it could be useful with it's bonus to tank trans amount. However again without a tank bonus and cap trans bonus they seemed to not get used much.

So now with these Force Auxiliaries you guys are giving resistance bonuses to the Amarr and Caldari again also with capacitor bonus. Gallente and Minmatar get bonus to local rep amount ( which is a huge disadvantage to resistance amount in large fleet fights ) combined with a cap charge bonus which is really kind of negated by the cycle time bonus that is given en lieu of boost amount.

Now I understand that this is sticking with the bonuses with the racial lines. However for cruiser sized logistics ships the ability to operate solo makes the Gallente and Minmatar ships very valuable in small and medium sized gangs as well as smaller incursion groups.

However when we are talking about capital class ships these typically only fight in groups, at least by choice anyway. Any time that I see a solo capital ship reported in intel it winds up being one of two things. Either someone hoping to travel through that got caught with their pants down or bait and far more often bait.

So with Force Auxiliaries I really don't see much of a role for the Gallente and Minmatar. I'm sure that they will get used and people will buy them however at a much lower rate than the the other two and probably more significantly the Apostle since the Archon was out selling the other 3 combined last time that I was involved in carrier sales.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

D3m0n sam
Island Monkeys
Evictus Associates
#154 - 2016-02-13 16:01:43 UTC  |  Edited by: D3m0n sam
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
D3m0n sam wrote:
What will happen with the original Fighter skillbook will this apply to the damage of squadrons?


Why do puerile not red the blogs b4 posting


Dev blog doesn't say anything is happening with the Original fighter skill? Other than it is only require for light / support squadrons..

I'f I'm mistaken please point it out rather than trying to bash someone for not seeing it..
Lugh Crow-Slave
#155 - 2016-02-13 16:34:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
D3m0n sam wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
D3m0n sam wrote:
What will happen with the original Fighter skillbook will this apply to the damage of squadrons?


Why do puerile not red the blogs b4 posting


Dev blog doesn't say anything is happening with the Original fighter skill? Other than it is only require for light / support squadrons..

I'f I'm mistaken please point it out rather than trying to bash someone for not seeing it..


It says more information on fighter transition will come in a later blog

Also just a heads up is not just light/support fighters is also still going to be needed for heavy fighters too
D3m0n sam
Island Monkeys
Evictus Associates
#156 - 2016-02-13 16:41:47 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
D3m0n sam wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
D3m0n sam wrote:
What will happen with the original Fighter skillbook will this apply to the damage of squadrons?


Why do puerile not red the blogs b4 posting


Dev blog doesn't say anything is happening with the Original fighter skill? Other than it is only require for light / support squadrons..

I'f I'm mistaken please point it out rather than trying to bash someone for not seeing it..


It says more information on fighter transition will come in a later blog

Also just a heads up is not just light/support fighters is also still going to be needed for heavy fighters too


Yeah i know was just wanting to know about fighters heavy fighters will be for later on.

Ah read over that part thanks :)
Akrasjel Lanate
Lanate Industries
#157 - 2016-02-13 17:40:28 UTC
With this space magic from CCP the carriers and FAXes must have same mineral build cost from what i understand AttentionAttentionAttentionQuestionQuestionQuestion

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude

Zee Zaugg
Zero's Legion
#158 - 2016-02-13 21:07:28 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Mr Rive wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Surely your analysis relies on Links working as they do at present?



No, not really.

Unless there is something amazing on the horizon, which I doubt, adding any kind of warfare link capacity to a ship which is designed for repping, and is, IN CCP's words, 'designed to die' is mental.

Just give us a ship which is tailored for triage, please, for the love of god. It's not much to ask.


I guess I just don't see why you've got your knickers in such a twist about it. It's not like it's costing you anything that FAX can, if they want to, fit links. Is Grath telling you that you will be forced to fit them? Are you being threatened?

Listen, blink twice if you're being threated.



You arent looking at the big picture. Those roles themselves dont hurt the ship, but the fact that they take up a spot that an actually useful role could be in means the effectiveness is less than it could/should be.
Zee Zaugg
Zero's Legion
#159 - 2016-02-13 21:08:16 UTC
Tyranis Marcus wrote:
Good news on removing in-combat refitting. Instead of basing it on the weapons timer, how about the limited engagement timer? One minute after deaggressing isn't really long enough. It would still be done in combat a lot. Five minutes isn't unreasonable after combat ends. That way there is that commitment you were talking about, but still the option of refitting in space soon after a fight. Plus, the target couldn't just deaggress and wait out a timer; enemies shooting him would keep the timer running so in-combat refitting will be cancelled for real, not just for people who can't last for 60 seconds.

This issue really shouldn't be handled in a cap ship focus group. The majority of combat in Eve doesn't involve them, while this change affects everyone. Just make sure not to crap on the little guys to keep the cap pilots from going bat-**** crazy. (They're mostly bat-**** crazy already. Just ask them!)


I agree 100%, there should not be any refittting while in combat, not just while theres a weapons timer. Refit between fights sure, but not in the middle of one
Lugh Crow-Slave
#160 - 2016-02-13 22:20:02 UTC
Zee Zaugg wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Mr Rive wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Surely your analysis relies on Links working as they do at present?



No, not really.

Unless there is something amazing on the horizon, which I doubt, adding any kind of warfare link capacity to a ship which is designed for repping, and is, IN CCP's words, 'designed to die' is mental.

Just give us a ship which is tailored for triage, please, for the love of god. It's not much to ask.


I guess I just don't see why you've got your knickers in such a twist about it. It's not like it's costing you anything that FAX can, if they want to, fit links. Is Grath telling you that you will be forced to fit them? Are you being threatened?

Listen, blink twice if you're being threated.



You arent looking at the big picture. Those roles themselves dont hurt the ship, but the fact that they take up a spot that an actually useful role could be in means the effectiveness is less than it could/should be.


Role bonuses are not a mandatory thing nor is there some limit to how many a ship can have just like with the mesothelioma a useless bonuse does not remove a spot from a useful one