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Eve Online 4 years later

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Author
Pandora Carrollon
Provi Rapid Response
The Watchmen.
#41 - 2016-02-13 02:37:02 UTC
Pay 2 Win (P2W) is a relative term with vague and only personal meaning. Throwing it around like it has an Oxford dictionary entry certainty only mucks up the waters.

Even WoW and SWTOR aren't Pay 2 Win by the definitions people are tossing around in this thread. Money gets you bling, and maybe a quicker advancement so you don't have to slog through decades old story lines. I'm seeing the SP Trading in the same light, it's actually a function for veteran players more than rookies.

Speaking as a newbie myself, the game itself is a FAR greater challenge to take in and digest so spending time figuring out how to magically make or buy millions of ISK to magically get a fully trained character that I'd be like to train WRONG, is not high on my priority list.

SP Trading seems more gear for vet players to let toons dump unused SP for either ISK gain *OR* trade them to alts or alternate accounts to let a new or weaker toon train up fast to be competitive AT SOME OTHER ASPECT OF THE GAME. In my weak knowledge opinion, it's a tool for vets, not rookies. You guys are griping about something that all of you can use as vets and me as a newbie could only dream of getting enough ISK to BUY one of the darned things. I certainly wouldn't worry about the Richie Riches of the world that buy a 4 day old Titan flyer, they can't even unscrew up their Overlay yet. It's like the rich kid whose parents give him a Lamborghini and the first thing he does is put it into a ditch. He cries about it, leaves the game and his several hundred dollar donation behind with CCP which is money WE don't have to give CCP to keep playing. Say thank you and move on.

Now, I'm just a newbie. All of the above could be 100% crap and I wouldn't know it. However, it's up to us to decide to play the game we have or not, Use the functions of the game or not. Nothing is stopping you from playing it the old 'hard' way and ignoring the new changes... well, same can't be said for the new camera, but hey, I guess there is an advantage to being a newbie sometimes! P
IronLemur
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#42 - 2016-02-13 02:44:53 UTC
The anti-p2w argument also usually boils down to the one thing "Eve is totally for l33t players you can't buy being good at the game", well that is true of any game. Eve might have a steep learning curve but even p2w games have a learning curve. WoW and LoL have elite PvPers as well.

My argument is now, what can a player NOT gain without RL money? Between PLEX and Skill injectors there is nothing a player has to do to work or get better. Don't want to bother learning to make money on your own? Just buy a PLEX! Don't want to wait to get into that shiny new ship and spend that time better learning the ships you can currently fly? No worries just whip out that credit card!

What made EVE great is that is didn't pander to the impatient children which made the lows far lower but achieving goals that much greater and more rewarding.

Maybe it isn't "pay2win" but there is no argument it isn't "pay2progress" and that in itself take away a lot of what made Eve different than other MMOs. There is no "endgame" everyone is always progressing.

Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#43 - 2016-02-13 02:45:26 UTC
actually many veterans still 'play' this because they have so much isk and plexes in stock that they can be here years waiting something to happen or not.

On my view point last real expansion was worm holes back in 2009 or something, rest has been just some kind of remaking and recycling and adding ships.

Adding new ships and some new ways to play with those does not change the fact that there is no real new reason to undock your ship.

New players may find this game exiting for years as it was for me too, but too long for same thing just makes you lose the interest.
Liz Arran
Night Hawks Riders
#44 - 2016-02-13 03:55:39 UTC
Bad Messenger wrote:
actually many veterans still 'play' this because they have so much isk and plexes in stock that they can be here years waiting something to happen or not.

On my view point last real expansion was worm holes back in 2009 or something, rest has been just some kind of remaking and recycling and adding ships.

Adding new ships and some new ways to play with those does not change the fact that there is no real new reason to undock your ship.

New players may find this game exiting for years as it was for me too, but too long for same thing just makes you lose the interest.


BINGO

And I'm surprised that this thread got high jacked to a P2W thread.
Luca Lure
Obertura
#45 - 2016-02-13 09:10:28 UTC
Lina Sovereign wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:

Why do people still call this game Eve?? It's now called World of Spaceships or WoSS.


Pay2Win World of Spaceships

Fixed.


Those people complaining about paytowin, but who have 60 hours a week to play EVE, because their mom is paying their house and food, let somebody else pay to win. If you have that much time to build expereance and ISK you shouldn't complain about the casual player putting some real money in the game to improve their game a bit.

That money is used by CCP to develop the game you play as well.

――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――

The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.

Sneaky Little Bastard
Doomheim
#46 - 2016-02-13 10:28:08 UTC
Luca Lure wrote:

That money is used by CCP to develop the game you play as well.


Like the new camera system ! LolLolLol
Luca Lure
Obertura
#47 - 2016-02-13 13:27:10 UTC
Sneaky Little Bastard wrote:
Luca Lure wrote:

That money is used by CCP to develop the game you play as well.


Like the new camera system ! LolLolLol


Yes, the camera system. And citadels. And lots of other new stuff.

Or are you one of those rage-quiting people, who where shouting at the new icons as well?

――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――

The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.

Pandora Carrollon
Provi Rapid Response
The Watchmen.
#48 - 2016-02-14 23:52:16 UTC
IronLemur wrote:
The anti-p2w argument also usually boils down to the one thing "Eve is totally for l33t players you can't buy being good at the game", well that is true of any game. Eve might have a steep learning curve but even p2w games have a learning curve. WoW and LoL have elite PvPers as well.

My argument is now, what can a player NOT gain without RL money? Between PLEX and Skill injectors there is nothing a player has to do to work or get better. Don't want to bother learning to make money on your own? Just buy a PLEX! Don't want to wait to get into that shiny new ship and spend that time better learning the ships you can currently fly? No worries just whip out that credit card!

What made EVE great is that is didn't pander to the impatient children which made the lows far lower but achieving goals that much greater and more rewarding.

Maybe it isn't "pay2win" but there is no argument it isn't "pay2progress" and that in itself take away a lot of what made Eve different than other MMOs. There is no "endgame" everyone is always progressing.


Almost all MMO's are adapting to make more money. Blizzard wants to expand into movies and other media formats, BioWare is probably desperately trying to save up money so they can underbid on a Disney contract for the entire Star Wars Universe MMO, etc. As traded corporations, they actually have a fiduciary responsibility to make as much money off their market as they can. It's a drawback to being publicly traded.

CCP is just going with the flow and hopefully we as the player-base will see some benefit to us in the near future. I'm not certain what it will be but even if it just makes CCP a very stable company, that means the game will survive and what money we have soaked into it won't be lost. It's in their best interest to make the game worthwhile to play, so I'm certainly not in the doom and gloom camp.

SP Trading hasn't shaken the game to the ground overnight, at least as a newbie, and really it seems to have made it more interesting for the veteran players... one way or the other. So, probably a positive thing in the end equation.

Give it some time, it'll work out for the best or it will kill the game... either way, we get to see a new beginning or the end of the universe... grab the popcorn.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#49 - 2016-02-15 00:38:28 UTC
Liz Arran wrote:
I remember watching fanfest back in the day and what ever happened to this idea? I assume that the project got scraped. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k7oaz8mWug ..
"Scrapped" and probably due to licensing costs.

As to going on about bug fixes and balancing; we were getting so close with balancing and then they blew away frigates and some cruisers with the new destroyers.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#50 - 2016-02-15 01:53:40 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Darwin
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
"Scrapped" and probably due to licensing costs.

That video featured a tech demo that we worked on with Nvidia to show off some of their technology. I'm pretty sure that perfornance reasons kept us from adding it to the game engine, although it would be technically possible to do so at some point.

As for the high-res texture question, I've posted extensively about that. After high-res textures were featured prominently at last year's Fanfest, the art team came to the realization that what we were proposing didn't really help much with the wide range of scales at which you can view large objects in Eve. It's a way to get a modest visual improvement at substantial cost to disk space and network bandwidth.

So, we're working on technologies that instead add in detail as you get closer to an object. Citadels will be the first objects in the game to implement this, and we'll look at using the technology elsewhere.

We're also investigating ways to improve the quality of the compression we use for our existing textures. This is a focus of my personal work right now.

The work to deliver higher-resolution textures is still ongoing, it's just not at the top of our priority list because the value is so modest.

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins

helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#51 - 2016-02-15 21:04:08 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:

So, we're working on technologies that instead add in detail as you get closer to an object. Citadels will be the first objects in the game to implement this, and we'll look at using the technology elsewhere.
.


Very exicited for this. I think the game graphics (ships/ stations / nebulas) look great when viewed at a distance. When zoomed in or close to an object then yes the textures look blurry/compressed. Awesome that citadels will have tech that will go some way to fixing this. Smile


CCP Darwin has there been any discussion about the UI ? and how each patch there is more and more UI added ? Its a big concern of mine. I love eve's space and spaceship graphics but each patch more of my screen real estate gets eaten away by UI. Sad

Im now even turning off the UI mid warp so I can atleast look at the space and enjoy it.

It would be nice if you released a minimalist UI version or allowed 3rd parties to submit their own UIs for use.

"...ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new.... thats where eve is placed... not in cave."  | zoonr-Korsairs |

Meanwhile Citadel release issues: "tried to bug report this and the bug report is bugged as well" | Rafeau |

Grauth Thorner
Vicious Trading Company
#52 - 2016-02-15 22:29:46 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:

...
So, we're working on technologies that instead add in detail as you get closer to an object. Citadels will be the first objects in the game to implement this, and we'll look at using the technology elsewhere.
...

Cool! Now I can't wait to see the first citadel in-game Big smile

View real-time damage statistics in-game

>EVE Live DPS Graph application forum thread

>iciclesoft.com

Chopper Rollins
hahahlolspycorp
Brave Collective
#53 - 2016-02-16 00:37:30 UTC
Liz Arran wrote:
I guess what I was expecting was new incursion factions, more dynamic missions, a new weapon system, I guess just a new way to play eve.
.


People only ask "What's new?" because they've been trained to think that novelty is nothing but positive. We have utterly lost the ability to ask "What is best?" because every single last opinion is as valid as any other. Any discussion of quality becomes an uncivil howling whirlpool of repeated opinions backed by middle school debating.
So you played EvE for two years, four years ago, and want a whole bunch of new things. Ok.
Try to understand, everybody, please, that some opinions are better than others due to insight, cleverness or even understanding of the game.
Luckily we have forums for customers to act tyrannical and vent their infantile trolling/querulousness without having to affect the game any more than needed.
This needed to be said, even if you are a troll.



Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.

Chopper Rollins
hahahlolspycorp
Brave Collective
#54 - 2016-02-16 00:53:33 UTC
IronLemur wrote:
My argument is now, what can a player NOT gain without RL money?



I think you meant 'What can a player gain WITHOUT real life money?'
*The ability to know how and why to make insta undocks
*The patience to scout out an area and work out who the locals are before committing a ship to activity there without risking a crippling loss.
*Knowledge that allows the player to move without being easily preyed on.
*Knowledge that allows the player to rat/fight/mine without being immediately destroyed...ie warp to zero at top belt is not always a good idea.
*The sense to know that a freighter sized contract courier job to a highsec system that can only be reached through a lowsec pipe will probably involve at least one and up to five surprise donations of battleship dps.
*The wariness to know that fleet invites from random strangers aren't always, or even ever, friendly and that this allows said randoms to either warp to you or warp you to them.
These may all seem laughably obvious to most people, but i'm anticipating some really cruel lessons getting learned over the next few months as people with little EvE experience roll out in awesome ships with their awesome SP and find AWESOME ADVENTURE whether they want it or not.


Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.

Jenshae Chiroptera
#55 - 2016-02-16 02:51:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
CCP Darwin wrote:
...After high-res textures were featured prominently at last year's Fanfest, the art team came to the realization that what we were proposing didn't really help much with the wide range of scales at which you can view large objects in Eve. It's a way to get a modest visual improvement at substantial cost to disk space and network bandwidth. ...
A lot of those that want higher graphics have disk space to burn.

I am pretty sure that we would legally torrent a texture pack to each other, put it in a pre-determined folder and the Repair.exe can patch it into the cache or what ever.

(Personally, as ever, I would like to have an option to turn ships into elongated, three sided pyramids with a plain colour and no textures.)

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

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