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At least we got another reason to earn ISK. SP trading calculations
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Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#21 - 2016-02-13 04:19:42 UTC
LordInvisible wrote:
The worst thing you can do to a new player in eve (not new charachter!) is to give him like 100mil into his wallet. He will not feel the labour he has to put in to earn that money, nor will he feel the eve struggle when even basic rats do alot of damage to you.

He wont feel eve, he will get bored and quit.

Happened to three of my "recruits"..

I remember when I first started EVE, a friend of mine offered to buy me a frigate and I asked for a Punisher. I saw that it was something like 2 million ISK and that looked so expensive to me, I was like "are you SURE you want to spend that on me?"
Cixi
#22 - 2016-02-13 05:26:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Cixi
Aiwha wrote:
SP trading doesn't absorb any isk at all. Its just trading isk between players. If you had to spend isk to get skill extractors, THAT would absorb isk.


SP trading does absord ISK in the form of taxes

So far, 113112 extractors were exchanged, at an average 300mil per unit, that would be 509bil at 1.5(tax+broker).
118420 injectors were exchanged, at an average 630mil per unit, that would be 1119bil at 1.5(tax+broker)

So 1.6 trillion ISK sunk, that is far from nothing.

Tiddle Jr wrote:
Mining is when you have received valuable ammont of something called ore from air. As soon its considered valuable it is isk generation. You don't "buy" that ore from other player it is given you during the special mechanic called - mining. So, after yout mining lasor made a cycle you already gain a subject which contains value which is connected to market value.


You mining asteroid is ISK generation for yourself, but when you sell them, the ISK goes from one player to another player, which doesn't create any ISK in the game itself, this ISK comes from Ratting/Missions/Incursions
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#23 - 2016-02-13 05:30:21 UTC
Tiddle Jr wrote:
Mining is when you have received valuable ammont of something called ore from air. As soon its considered valuable it is isk generation. You don't "buy" that ore from other player it is given you during the special mechanic called - mining. So, after yout mining lasor made a cycle you already gain a subject which contains value which is connected to market value.


Um. No.

Mining actually is a little bit of an isk sink because processing the ore.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#24 - 2016-02-13 05:33:53 UTC
Cixi wrote:
Aiwha wrote:
SP trading doesn't absorb any isk at all. Its just trading isk between players. If you had to spend isk to get skill extractors, THAT would absorb isk.


SP trading does absord ISK in the form of taxes

So far, 113112 extractors were exchanged, at an average 300mil per unit, that would be 509bil at 1.5(tax+broker).
118420 injectors were exchanged, at an average 630mil per unit, that would be 1119bil at 1.5(tax+broker)

So 1.6 trillion ISK sunk, that is far from nothing.


it's not inherent to the sp injecting though. It's more accurate to say that trading anything is an isk sink. One can trade sp between alts without activating any isk sink.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2016-02-13 06:04:33 UTC
Cixi wrote:
Aiwha wrote:
SP trading doesn't absorb any isk at all. Its just trading isk between players. If you had to spend isk to get skill extractors, THAT would absorb isk.



Tiddle Jr wrote:
Mining is when you have received valuable ammont of something called ore from air. As soon its considered valuable it is isk generation. You don't "buy" that ore from other player it is given you during the special mechanic called - mining. So, after yout mining lasor made a cycle you already gain a subject which contains value which is connected to market value.


You mining asteroid is ISK generation for yourself, but when you sell them, the ISK goes from one player to another player, which doesn't create any ISK in the game itself, this ISK comes from Ratting/Missions/Incursions


It is a passive isk generation. No matter you trade your ore for someone isk. Players do not generate isk since you siad those came only from npc kills. So if you remove middle men than it even clear that you trade an ore gain from air for isk came from same souurce.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#26 - 2016-02-13 07:38:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Iria Ahrens
Tiddle Jr wrote:


It is a passive isk generation. No matter you trade your ore for someone isk. Players do not generate isk since you siad those came only from npc kills. So if you remove middle men than it even clear that you trade an ore gain from air for isk came from same souurce.


You fail at logic.

I'll break it down for you with simplified prices.

player 1 has 1 trit. Player two has 10 isk.

Player 2 buys the trit from player 1 at 10 isk price.

Player one pays tax for exchange.

Player 1 now has 9 isk. Player two has 1 trit. 1 isk was lost in taxes.

Isk changed hands no new isk was generated. In fact, isk was lost due to taxes.

You confuse income with isk generation (creation). They are completely different things. Mining ore doesn't create isk. Mining ore creates ore. If ore could be exchanged to an npc for isk, then that would be an isk faucet. But ore is just exchanged between players. So no isk is created by mining ore.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2016-02-13 08:54:27 UTC
Player 2 didn't have isk. He got them from NPC mission/ratting as it was said. And he agrees to exchange 10 isk for 1 veldspar same as player 1 agrees to exchange his 1 veldspar for isk. So player 1 is a middle man between npc isk and veldspar. By having veldspar in your inventory just look at bottom right corner of your screen, you would see there some value in a form of number of isk. So mining ore the other words is isk generation otherwise noone keep mining including Chribba and his Veldspar Empire.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
ForeverBlue
eve unbound
Juggernaut.
#28 - 2016-02-13 09:34:49 UTC
Tiddle Jr wrote:
Player 2 didn't have isk. He got them from NPC mission/ratting as it was said. And he agrees to exchange 10 isk for 1 veldspar same as player 1 agrees to exchange his 1 veldspar for isk. So player 1 is a middle man between npc isk and veldspar. By having veldspar in your inventory just look at bottom right corner of your screen, you would see there some value in a form of number of isk. So mining ore the other words is isk generation otherwise noone keep mining including Chribba and his Veldspar Empire.


Sorry but you don't understand it. As pointed out before you are mixing alot of things up. I think it's the language barrier.
Yes you are earning isk with mining but you are not creating isk. The guy that is doing missions, incursions or shooting rats etc that is the one creating isk. He trades with you for your ore so you get the isk.
You can't cut out the middle man because he is creating the isk. Yes your ore/minerals have value but ore doesn't inject isk into the economy. The isk that is spend with buying ore is just a trade as the isk comes from another player.

Isk creation to put it simple is when you get isk from npc if you don't get the isk from an npc it's trading
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2016-02-13 21:11:04 UTC
ForeverBlue wrote:
Tiddle Jr wrote:
Player 2 didn't have isk. He got them from NPC mission/ratting as it was said. And he agrees to exchange 10 isk for 1 veldspar same as player 1 agrees to exchange his 1 veldspar for isk. So player 1 is a middle man between npc isk and veldspar. By having veldspar in your inventory just look at bottom right corner of your screen, you would see there some value in a form of number of isk. So mining ore the other words is isk generation otherwise noone keep mining including Chribba and his Veldspar Empire.


Sorry but you don't understand it. As pointed out before you are mixing alot of things up. I think it's the language barrier.
Yes you are earning isk with mining but you are not creating isk. The guy that is doing missions, incursions or shooting rats etc that is the one creating isk. He trades with you for your ore so you get the isk.
You can't cut out the middle man because he is creating the isk. Yes your ore/minerals have value but ore doesn't inject isk into the economy. The isk that is spend with buying ore is just a trade as the isk comes from another player.

Isk creation to put it simple is when you get isk from npc if you don't get the isk from an npc it's trading



It is a mind and pov barriers. The middle men who killed npcs are not making isk they are rewarded by faction for doing that. Its an income. Miners are stripping rocks and as soon as first m3 appeared in cargo that considered as your income whuch is not yet converted into isk. So your pov is tied to walet blinking process mine is slightly different.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
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