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[March] Target Painter Tiericide

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Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#21 - 2016-02-11 23:42:27 UTC
RIP PWNAGE, PWNT, PWND, and PWN.

PWNAGE OR RIOT!
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#22 - 2016-02-12 01:03:44 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:
This is the complete opposite of what I was hoping with TPs.

RIP TPs.
Thinking this is intentional to make MGCs more viable.
Really should have gone another direction with TPs..

Well... "Go Golem". Combined with the new hull resists the Golem got a nice buff. I like the new optimal and falloff values for Faction TPs. Not a fan of the Domination TP losing its edge, however. And I'm still less than thrilled about the stealth BCS nerf.


Well.. Having flown the Golem for quite a while now, I don't think this TP effects it at all.

Sure, TPs would likely perform better for torps, but if you're using torps on a Golem, you're doing it wrong.
With cruise missiles, you can hit for over 1k dps using fury, with basically no range limitation, as well as having more application to start.

The best you can do with Torps is around 80km range, and that's if you give up on application.
Not to mention, you're outside of optimal for TPs at that range.

On my Golem, I use 3x MGC with precision scripts, 4 x BCU T2, and a t2 damage rig.
With 5% implants cruise missiles and rapid fire, I hit 1015 dps, and 1056 if i use 3x Caldari BCU and 1 t2.

Yes, a torp Golem can pull out over 1250 DPS, but that is limited to 45 km or so, and has crap application..
Javelin torps only have 850 dps, and can only reach 106km, and that's with 3 MGCs using range, as well as t2 range rigs, which means you have no application. You'd get around 80km to get good application.
Not to mention, torps are quite a high fitting cost, leaving fitting capability quite limited.

Basically, the only time a TP out performs MGCs is when your targets are within 50km, which might be good, but this limits you on engagement range. MGCs allow you to engage at any range with no problem.

The whole point of this is to say, regardless of whether your ship is even bonused to TPs, that bonus is negated by the range limitations.
The only time that I would suggest taking a TP over a MGC, even on a TP bonused hull, is when you're in a fleet.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#23 - 2016-02-12 01:05:13 UTC
Moac Tor wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hello everyone!
We're planning a huge set of module tiericide in our March release and this thread will serve as the feedback location for changes to Target Painters.

This is a class of modules that I've been especially nervous about touching for a fairly unusual reason: names.

Yet you renamed the "phased weapon navigation array generation extron" which was the best one.

But in its essence very nice changes once again. Fozzie you've been doing well lately (alongside the rest of your team). It is almost making up for the terrible skill trading.


They renamed all of them. Used to be:

PWN
PWNT
PWND
PWNAGE


It's a sad day for TPs...
Dansara
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#24 - 2016-02-12 01:22:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Dansara
Please make the inception target painter a high slot mod, with reduced stats to T2
Arthur Aihaken
Kenshin Academia.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#25 - 2016-02-12 02:13:00 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
Well.. Having flown the Golem for quite a while now, I don't think this TP effects it at all.

Sure, TPs would likely perform better for torps, but if you're using torps on a Golem, you're doing it wrong.
With cruise missiles, you can hit for over 1k dps using fury, with basically no range limitation, as well as having more application to start.

The best you can do with Torps is around 80km range, and that's if you give up on application.
Not to mention, you're outside of optimal for TPs at that range.

On my Golem, I use 3x MGC with precision scripts, 4 x BCU T2, and a t2 damage rig.
With 5% implants cruise missiles and rapid fire, I hit 1015 dps, and 1056 if i use 3x Caldari BCU and 1 t2.

Yes, a torp Golem can pull out over 1250 DPS, but that is limited to 45 km or so, and has crap application..
Javelin torps only have 850 dps, and can only reach 106km, and that's with 3 MGCs using range, as well as t2 range rigs, which means you have no application. You'd get around 80km to get good application.
Not to mention, torps are quite a high fitting cost, leaving fitting capability quite limited.

Basically, the only time a TP out performs MGCs is when your targets are within 50km, which might be good, but this limits you on engagement range. MGCs allow you to engage at any range with no problem.

The whole point of this is to say, regardless of whether your ship is even bonused to TPs, that bonus is negated by the range limitations.
The only time that I would suggest taking a TP over a MGC, even on a TP bonused hull, is when you're in a fleet.

A pair of target painters on a Golem still outperforms a pair of missile guidance computers. Extending target painter range just allows target painters to be more effective at longer distances. I agree that cruise missiles are the way to go (range, damage, application and cost). Torpedoes are really only useful in a handful of missions (Damsel, Enemy). I like the ROF with torpedoes but abhor the costs of running Faction ammunition.

A Polarized fit probably offers the most interesting potential, but again - it's really limited in scope.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Alexis Nightwish
#26 - 2016-02-12 02:19:58 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
Is reserved justy so nobody gets first?

I am happy that the names will stay.

m

But they're not!

Farewell sweet prince, you were too good for this world!

*shoots flaming arrow at PWNAGE's casket boat*

*plays bagpipes*

CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge

EVE Online's "I win!" Button

Fixing bombs, not the bombers
Eija-Riitta Veitonen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#27 - 2016-02-12 05:13:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Eija-Riitta Veitonen
Any chance for target painters to also get the decreasing effectiveness over fallof rather than current dice roll mechanic, like it's being done to Sensor Dampeners and done to neuts/nos?
Cyrek Ohaya
Blazing Sun Group
#28 - 2016-02-12 06:23:34 UTC
My Vigil feels happy, thank you.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#29 - 2016-02-12 08:06:56 UTC
Eija-Riitta Veitonen wrote:
Any chance for target painters to also get the decreasing effectiveness over fallof rather than current dice roll mechanic, like it's being done to Sensor Dampeners and done to neuts/nos?


fully supported. the less RNG the better

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Khan Wrenth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2016-02-12 15:15:02 UTC
The stats on the Inception target painter are just dreamyBlink

Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
Helsinki Atruin
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2016-02-12 16:12:31 UTC
Eija-Riitta Veitonen wrote:
Any chance for target painters to also get the decreasing effectiveness over fallof rather than current dice roll mechanic, like it's being done to Sensor Dampeners and done to neuts/nos?



i believe that is a reason for all the ewar tiericide they are doing, make effectiveness change with range rather than rng
Kyria Stenory
Flying Blacksmiths
#32 - 2016-02-13 12:51:57 UTC
Changes are maybe interesting, but not the name.

RIP great TP names. #ccpfailoncemore.
Sugilite
Perkone
Caldari State
#33 - 2016-02-17 17:17:40 UTC
How am I suppose to pwn my enemies now that I'm stuck with a some "TP" and "petp."

Gross.
ColdCutz
Frigonometry
#34 - 2016-02-21 10:12:29 UTC
CCP taking all of the flavor out of the game.
Amak Boma
Dragon Factory
xX SERENITY Xx
#35 - 2016-02-22 11:46:14 UTC
changing the module statistics dont require the name change for module. CCP's solid-concrete logic makes no sense over renaming modules since theres no apparent reason to rename just to change the module effects there is much easier way than that , releasing second-line of target painters so players can choose between the old ones and better new ones this module tiercide makes no sense with the name change. either keep it and release second line of target painters or keep the names and just do module effect changes on exsisting ones
Darkwing Fiftytwo
Hookers N' Blow
#36 - 2016-03-02 17:49:10 UTC
Nooo Phased Weapon Array Semenation Megatron!!! JK'ing all the upcoming changes are exciting, although some of the other modules you tiericided have such high drops rates the prices have gone to zero. Small Neut/Nos's ex.


Can we at least keep the Exitron TPer? Everyone loves that one.
Cyrek Ohaya
Blazing Sun Group
#37 - 2016-03-05 21:36:05 UTC
Could we have the targeting range of the Bellicose looked at?, these buffs are meaningless if the ship can't make full use of the new ranges, should be more on par with the Celestis and the Blackbird. Also look into the implants related to these, saving 5% capacitor use on painters is literally worthless at the cost of approximately 150,000,000 isk.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#38 - 2016-03-05 21:52:13 UTC
Cyrek Ohaya wrote:
Could we have the targeting range of the Bellicose looked at?, these buffs are meaningless if the ship can't make full use of the new ranges, should be more on par with the Celestis and the Blackbird. Also look into the implants related to these, saving 5% capacitor use on painters is literally worthless at the cost of approximately 150,000,000 isk.


or its a bad attempt at making them less lame compared too webs instead of actually nerfing webs.. as the range is stupidly long

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Opertone
State War Academy
Caldari State
#39 - 2016-03-06 10:37:01 UTC
yes, revision to target paining implants and rigs

right now the implementation of 5% capacitor is useless, long as target painters cost 30 cap charge over 60 seconds or so...

boost its effectiveness please, or an implant that removes the stacking penalty

This post sums up why the 'best' work with DCM inc.

WARP DRIVE makes eve boring

really - add warping align time 300% on gun aggression and eve becomes great again
The Desktop
The Art of Ninja
#40 - 2016-03-09 11:10:21 UTC
ZOMG CCP NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOES!!!!!!!. You MUST (note the caps) keep the name of the pwnage target painter! This is a sad sad day forget the buffs lol we want the NAMMMMMMMMMMME! *cries to sleep at night* :'(
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