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Old camera option will be removed Mars 9'th

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Kuronaga
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
The Chicken Coop
#81 - 2016-02-13 12:10:54 UTC
Daemun Khanid wrote:
Kuronaga wrote:
EVE players hate change lol


Its not about change. I welcome change. New ships, capital rework, module tiericide, grid changes all good things. Its about destroying functionality for the sake of fluff. This isnt change its destruction and poor design decisions.

If you actually read some if the problems and complaints ppl have been posting (particularly in the feedback thread) this would be apparrent. The new camera has serious functionality issues, glitches and unintended physiological effects.


Reading is hard.

What do you expect of me, a third grade education?
Natural CloneKiller
Commonwealth Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#82 - 2016-02-13 13:21:26 UTC
Officer Pressly wrote:
Just a heads up to everyone that missed this. If you have reverted to the old camera (like me). CCP have stated that they will remove the option, and leave you flying with the new camera as the only camera option.

Quote from dev blog:
Quote:
Since changes to fundamental parts of core gameplay systems can be delicate, we’ve decided to keep the option of reverting to the old camera for about 1 month as of now.


I personally have serious issues with part of my everyday gameplay beeing just deleted from the game.



Are you serious. The new camera is rubbish.
Daemun Khanid
Corbeau de sang
#83 - 2016-02-13 15:38:57 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Eanok wrote:
This is kind of sad news. Why cant my ship be the center of the screen like before? The new camera option is kind of nauseating. Kind of like how CCP hasn't made any changes recently to bring in new players, just push old ones away.


You can return the ship to the center by disabling the "offset" options of the new camera in the graphics menu. That also helps with nausea.


Unfortunately this only works for the speed offset. The ship will still be greatly offset when using tracking camera functions.

Daemun of Khanid
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#84 - 2016-02-13 16:34:31 UTC
Get over it

If the entire world was as apprehensive to change as the lot of you are, we'd be in the dark ages.
We'd be drawing on the walls of caves with charcoal.
We wouldn't even have charcoal because you wouldn't have allowed yourselves to discover fire yet.

For a group of nerds who ecstatically embrace the product of change in the form of using the internet, computers, electricity, and playing a game based on scientific advancement so far as flying space ships in space in an entirely different universe, you're all incredibly neophobic.

But whatever, I guess you can't really expect much when you're dealing with the 9/10 Anomaly of a Neanderthal Haven.
Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
#85 - 2016-02-13 17:46:47 UTC
Started the cancellation process. My sub is up in June so they have a few months to iron things out if they want to keep my business. I'm simply not going to pay for something that makes me nauseous and frustrated. That would be stupid. Wrapping up some production jobs and will likely fly around a little bit between now and March. After that, it's up to the Cceeps.

I've had a lot of fun. I'd like to stay. Them's the breaks.

♪ They'll always be bloodclaws to me ♫
Avvy
Doomheim
#86 - 2016-02-13 18:05:08 UTC
Cna't check this myself as my internet connection is so bad presently.

But I noticed in this thread that it seems the camera is offset to the ship. Played games like that, I still consider it odd, but you do get used to it after awhile.
Daemun Khanid
Corbeau de sang
#87 - 2016-02-13 19:03:48 UTC
Not when the offset moves your ship entirely behind windows which considering how window/information heavy eve is becomes a real issue. Convenient that the videos ccp have made to try and make the new cameras look cool are all completely void of interface elements.

Daemun of Khanid
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#88 - 2016-02-13 19:10:50 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
Iria Ahrens wrote:
I had to turn off dynamic field of view, because it seems to have a bug with occlusions. My screen, and anything in the shadow of a sun flickers badly. This happens in STATION too, why am I getting sun occlusion bugs inside ship hanger?


Can you submit a bug report for this, preferably with video uploaded to Youtube or Vimeo or something like that? This does not sound like a camera issue to me.

Feel free to mail me ingame with the bug report number if you do.




...and what about the issues of motion sickness that some of us face? I hope CCP doesn't just arbitrarily remove the old camera system and thereby render the game unplayable for those that are affected by this.

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Elite Harvester
Elite Harvesters
#89 - 2016-02-13 20:34:23 UTC
I personally love the new first-person camera. It combined with the manual piloting controls is great.

Miner bowling has never been more fun. Smile

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Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#90 - 2016-02-13 21:00:16 UTC
Bumblefck wrote:
CCP Darwin wrote:
Iria Ahrens wrote:
I had to turn off dynamic field of view, because it seems to have a bug with occlusions. My screen, and anything in the shadow of a sun flickers badly. This happens in STATION too, why am I getting sun occlusion bugs inside ship hanger?


Can you submit a bug report for this, preferably with video uploaded to Youtube or Vimeo or something like that? This does not sound like a camera issue to me.

Feel free to mail me ingame with the bug report number if you do.




...and what about the issues of motion sickness that some of us face? I hope CCP doesn't just arbitrarily remove the old camera system and thereby render the game unplayable for those that are affected by this.


Agreed. Personally, I rather like the potential the new camera system could have, but in it's current state, it's a mess of missing functions and the ones that it promises are either still nonexistent or half broken anyways. If the bugs can be ironed out and the list of classic functions that players routinely rely on now can be properly introduced into the new camera modes, then it could be a pretty nice upgrade. At this point, it's a crude rusty knife that needs some restoration, cleaning, and sharpening. Until then, it should remain a beta -- thus optional -- feature and the classic camera mode needs to also remain a functioning option.

I'm fine with CCP fleshing it out to be a proper and reliable successor, just as I've said about any of the other beta features, as long as we are not getting a buggy downgrade for sake of "new" in the process.

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#91 - 2016-02-13 21:39:26 UTC  |  Edited by: helana Tsero
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:

To be fair, 15 pages of complaints is not really an indication of 'the vast majority of players'. Truly controversial features get much more than that.


Actually if you look at the controversial features threadnaughts that run into the 50+ pages..the majority of the pages are 4-5 guys going back and forth arguing with each other. The camera feedback thread is majority one post per character feedback.

IE : there are alot of people complaining about the camera.

"...ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new.... thats where eve is placed... not in cave."  | zoonr-Korsairs |

Meanwhile Citadel release issues: "tried to bug report this and the bug report is bugged as well" | Rafeau |
Ashterothi
The Order of Thelemic Ascension
The Invited
#92 - 2016-02-13 21:54:39 UTC
Let's get real for a second.

We have had several live tests with the Citadels, and in every one of them we have received reports that the Citadels do not work with the old camera while docked.

The camera does have bugs, but it has come a very long way in a very short period of time, and it can keep improving with your help!

Instead of complaining here, or requesting that you be exempt from the change, hunt for the actual bugs and report them.

Good reports include steps to replicate, images and even videos are awesome. Try to recreate the issue in different ways and isolate what does and doesn't cause the issue you are having.

If the camera is flat out missing a feature, and you want it. Report it as a bug.

If the camera HAS a feature, but you don't like how it is implemented, give proper feedback on the thread for the camera.

Please understand, these kinds of changes are going to be necessary, and supporting old tech in the face of massive development efforts is unreasonably burdensome. Instead of focusing on how great the old camera was, let's continue to communicate clearly what parts of it were necessary, and more importantly why.

Watch me live for all your Empyrean news and analysis!

helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#93 - 2016-02-13 22:13:13 UTC
Ashterothi wrote:
Let's get real for a second.

We have had several live tests with the Citadels, and in every one of them we have received reports that the Citadels do not work with the old camera while docked. ......................................
........ why.


LOL.. so all this drama cause CCP want us to be able to pan around the citadel

Looking around the citadel is not bad thing.. in fact Im looking forward to it.... BUT I do not want to lose functionality of the old camera just so I can look at the citadel..

They really should have rewritten the new camera with the old functionality intact and then added some extra features..

Its pretty clear that the Team Psycho Sisters Devs don't actually play the game on a regular basis... and when planning this rewrite had actually no clue the importance of the camera features they were removing.

Was mountains of negative feedback about the tracking camera on SISI pre release.. they just ignored it cause they didn't understand the problems themselves..

CCP you need internal group made up of DEVs who actually play the game.. whose job it is to flag anything bad when a rewrite of existing functionality is planned. Because ANY regular player (especially one who scouts for fleets or FCs) would have caught the removal of the tracking camera as a BAD thing when the rewrite was in design stage. Now you have gone to all this work...

"...ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new.... thats where eve is placed... not in cave."  | zoonr-Korsairs |

Meanwhile Citadel release issues: "tried to bug report this and the bug report is bugged as well" | Rafeau |
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#94 - 2016-02-13 22:26:35 UTC  |  Edited by: TigerXtrm
Daemun Khanid wrote:
Not when the offset moves your ship entirely behind windows which considering how window/information heavy eve is becomes a real issue. Convenient that the videos ccp have made to try and make the new cameras look cool are all completely void of interface elements.


You can turn that off for christ sake...

Just like the vast majority, if not all of the other things people in this thread are complaining about. Field of view, zooming speed, speed offset, all options that are readily available for you to turn off in the options menu.

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Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#95 - 2016-02-13 23:11:27 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Grauth Thorner wrote:
Tamazaki wrote:
Bumblefck wrote:
With the new camera angles and settings, I get what I assume is pretty bad motion sickness - I really hope that they don't remove the old camera settings permanently. :(


Me too.

That makes three of us.

Make that four.

And one more here.

For some reason the damn thing got reactivated when I logged in today. Literally within seconds I felt nauseated.

It's definitely worse compared to the warp tunnel.

Remove standings and insurance.
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#96 - 2016-02-13 23:31:50 UTC
Jajuka Cirim wrote:
MidnightWyvern wrote:
Of course, I guess I'm forgetting that changing any game mechanic in any way whatsoever will kill the game dead. You know, just like it did all those other times!

Apparently some people still can't find the undock button! Now they're just station traders, which is a bummer when you're stuck in Derelik. Ugh

Indeed, I don't use the silly button. It's in the wrong place almost everytime I want to undock and I have to move all over the place to get there.

Instead I just right click on the ship somewhere in the middle of the screen and click undock. As far as I'm concerned CCP could silently remove the button and I probably wouldn't even notice for months unless stumbling over a rage thread in GD.

Remove standings and insurance.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#97 - 2016-02-13 23:58:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Ashterothi wrote:
Please understand, these kinds of changes are going to be necessary

No. Almost none of them are. What's needed is for them to refactor the code so that the working camera also works with the new content. At no point is any of the additional fluff “necessary”. If it comes as a bonus result from the refactoring, then that's nice and all, but it does not cover up, alter, or excuse the lack of functionality that the new camera system suffers from.

TigerXtrm wrote:
You can turn that off for christ sake...

Just like the vast majority, if not all of the other things people in this thread are complaining about. Field of view, zooming speed, speed offset, all options that are readily available for you to turn off in the options menu.

…except that none of them actually solve the issues people are having. Things like poorly chosen FoV; rotation and zoom acceleration; uneven response curves; ship position; tracking position; lack of keybinds; superfluous key input; camera automation; lack of free-look and manual fov+zoom control; settings persistence; and outright broken implementations of both “look” and “track” cameras. There simply are no options to make the camera behave in a way that is consistent with and conducive to its two main purposes: to let you manually control your ship, and to let you keep track of your position in relation to other objects in space.

The vast majority of things people are complaining about are complained about because the new camera simply do not do them right, if at all, with or without options. If you are stupid enough to think that people haven't tried the options by now, then you've disqualified yourself from commenting on the topic altogether since written communication is very obviously far far beyond your capabilities.
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#98 - 2016-02-13 23:59:38 UTC
Ashterothi wrote:

Instead of complaining here, or requesting that you be exempt from the change, hunt for the actual bugs and report them.

Good reports include steps to replicate, images and even videos are awesome. Try to recreate the issue in different ways and isolate what does and doesn't cause the issue you are having.





My camera-related bug for you here is a wastepaper bin splattered with vomit and a pounding headache - how's that for your replication stage?

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
CaesarGREG2
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#99 - 2016-02-14 00:14:32 UTC


if u do not afraid , that new camera system is good , and ppl will use it, why u want remove old one?


pls , give leave ppl choice .

thx
CaesarGREG2
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#100 - 2016-02-14 00:18:21 UTC  |  Edited by: CaesarGREG2
GIVE US CHOICE!!!!

they want just old players leave server, and tell friends its not worth play this game , all the time attitude, "we know what is best for u guys"

Developers!! u r for players not players for u! u shuld listenten what players want:)

i was working as developer too , 9 hard years, and ,i wasnt listening users carfully enough what they want , and?? i'm unemployed developer! GL