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Bumping Freighters in highsec - A legitimate counter

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Author
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#41 - 2016-02-09 01:35:41 UTC
Usual questions like; why is this even needed when hauling is stupidly safe and bumping is stupidly easy to avoid?

For this proposal specifically, why is bumping a freighter bad but bumping any other ship forever is ok?

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#42 - 2016-02-09 01:39:51 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:

The tackle might have a scrambler....no MJD in that case.

In that case Concord would make short work of the ship with the scrambler. Giving the freighter a get out of gaol free card.


Do you even read people's posts.

The proposal was that against a freighter using a disruptor or scram does not give a criminal flag, but a suspect flag. Now, the tackle can be shot by any passerby wanting to shot him. At the same time, it allows gankers to try and hold a freighter to gank it.

And a word of advice, when you make blunders this bad, you might want to tone down the snark. And you really could not find the TWO recent threads on bumping? Really? One is still on page 2.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Lugh Crow-Slave
#43 - 2016-02-09 01:42:22 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Didn't we just have this thread?


Yes we did, and it covered this horrible idea too.

Why should there be a limited engagement timer?

1. You can avoid being bumped just by having a dude go +1 in a freaking pod.
2. If you are getting bumped you seriously screwed up, so yeah, getting one out of such a mess should be costly.
3. There is no damage done via bumping, no offensive module has been activated.
4. Mechanical means of determining intent do not exist.
5. Black Pedro actually had an intriguing idea, but the AG people in that thread poo-pooed it.

Black Pedro’s idea was, IIRC:

1. Using a scram or a disruptor on freighter did NOT give a criminal flag, but instead a suspect flag.
2. Freighters come with a build in MJD with a long spool up and cool down with a range of 500km.

While I prefer the emergent play via bumping, Black Pedro’s idea was 10x better than the Bravo Sierra that is in any anti-bumping thread to date.

So again the idea is to avoid any of eves core mechanics by avoiding pvp. Get away safely is the only option.

Not sure what "Bravo Sierra" is - Does it elude to risk free, run away, get out of gaol free by doing X?
Because that is not what I am suggesting - Read the whole post.

Trying to create PVP content is so very different to "built in MJD that moves you 500K from danger".


way to only look at one part of the idea

the warp scam would disable the mjd and give the scramer a suspect timer so he could be shot rather than a bumping ship that can not

and again getting out of an engagement is not avoiding pvp it is winning a pvp engagement. you seem to think pvp is always a violent fight with symmetrical goals
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
#44 - 2016-02-09 01:46:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
CCP specifically removed the possibility of the idea being suggested from the game in 2012, when CrimeWatch was improved:

CCP wrote:
We want to ensure that a player always has a right to self-defense, even if he is A Bad Guy. To solve this, we still require a form of A-B flagging. However this will be heavily limited in application, and won't be propagated via assistance chains like the existing aggression flags are. This is where we introduce the concept of a Limited Engagement. An LE is between a pair of characters. (Always characters, not corps, alliances, factions or anything else).


"or anything else" surely includes fleets, so there is no way CCP will introduce a flag that propagates to a whole fleet, when that was actively removed and there has been no problem with the Limited Engagement approach that was introduced.

I'll just say good luck to the suggestion, because it won't get any traction given how it goes opposite to CCP views.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#45 - 2016-02-09 01:48:44 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:


Freighter bumps Mach, freighter maintains original course, Mach veers off. Mach bumps freighter, freighter veers off. Pretty straight forward really.


When two ships bump, neither maintain their original course.

Please come back when you have an elementary understanding of the game mechanics.

Ok lets dumb it down enough for you.


You're awfully condescending for someone who just made an idiot of himself by flatly stating that the bumping ship doesn't change course.


Quote:
I believe the server has the ability to know how hard or softly a freighter has been hit, ramming a freighter at 80 ms is not going to change its alignment a great deal, but if it is hit a 1200ms it is.


A freighter hitting an interceptor will change its alignment a great deal, if only briefly. So, is it then game-on when that happens, or are we special-casing this for the bottom 1% of freighter pilots who are stupid enough to get bumped?

Where did I say a bumping Mach maintains its course? Maybe the freighter bumping the Mach might change course slightly but would not lose alignment completely (this i have actually tested on SISI with both JF's and standard ones.
Reading what is not written is a pretty amazing skills to have.

And if the interceptor is able to bump a freighter in highsec enough that it triggers a predefined alignment change, then it would trigger the timer. As ballteships and fast moving ones at that are used for bumping to ensure a successful bump, I don't think a ceptor has too much to worry about, unless bumping is so broken something as small as a ceptor is enough to radically change the alignment of something so big..

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

SurrenderMonkey
The Exchange Collective
Solyaris Chtonium
#46 - 2016-02-09 01:54:39 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Sgt Ocker wrote:

Where did I say a bumping Mach maintains its course?


Quote:

Sgt Ocker wrote:


Freighter bumps Mach, freighter maintains original course, Mach veers off. Mach bumps freighter, freighter veers off. Pretty straight forward really.


In reality, two spheres bumped, and both spheres changed course.


Quote:
And if the interceptor is able to bump a freighter in highsec enough that it triggers a predefined alignment change, then it would trigger the timer..


No, this is the freighter bumping the interceptor (To your way of thinking, in which such a distinction can be made), which would definitely change the course of the interceptor a great deal and would, therefore, flag the freighter.

How are you not understanding this?

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#47 - 2016-02-09 04:14:42 UTC
There were recently 2 threads on this topic. Both covered flags. The problem is that a flag approach also requires the server determining intent. However computers are not good at this. That is why Black Pedro's idea is so much better as it is quite clear in terms of intent. Activating a scram will quite clearly indicate intent.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#48 - 2016-02-09 04:17:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Here is another bumping thread

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=454192

The last 2 threads were locked BTW.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#49 - 2016-02-09 04:41:28 UTC
Quote:

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Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive, and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.

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As a courtesy to other forum users, please search to see if there is a thread already open on the topic you wish to discuss. If so, please place your comments there instead. Multiple threads on the same subject clutter up the forums needlessly, causing good feedback and ideas to be lost. Please keep discussions regarding a topic to a single thread.


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