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[March] Heavy Stasis Grapplers

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Author
Eagles Strike
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#261 - 2016-02-12 18:34:12 UTC
Personally, I would have gone down a different direction with these. (especially given the name grapple)

Since they are only for battleships/capitals I think it would be a lot more interesting if they acted more like tractor beams.
So when activated on a target, it would effectively add a velocity component to the target ship that is toward the module. The strength of this should be reduced the further away the target is, and the larger the mass of the target.

This should increase diversity in fits, and add game play for small ship pvp (the small ship will have to consider how to escape if they get pulled too close, the large ship will have to consider what circumstances they want to use it, due to tracking) and in larger engagements it might be interesting to see how fleets might employ this to try and pull a target away from their fleet.

But that is just my thought.
CowRocket Void
Of Tears and ISK
Shut Up I'm Trying
#262 - 2016-02-12 21:44:01 UTC  |  Edited by: CowRocket Void
I was really hoping for them to be hi slot and fitable on my procurers.. Cry


I guess i'll have to keep the small nuet for now.

bleeding shadow darkness > did i just saw a red procurer? :P

Lugh Crow-Slave
#263 - 2016-02-13 01:22:44 UTC
Meditril wrote:
So no Chance any more to survive with a frigate in close orbit below guns of an BS?
Bad news for frigate Pilots :-(


yep but they can only get one of you at a time so looks like you are going to need backup to hold down that BB after you pop and before the rest of the fleet gets there
Byson1
Bridge not Jump
#264 - 2016-02-13 06:06:02 UTC
4k... hahahaahahahahah. 4k hahahahaha

Anyone going to actually try to use this? sounds like a waste of fitting space, in my opinion.

4k they will just kite you...

close defence- that's what smartbombs are for.

Roll
Fascist Jockitch
ELUSH Rehab
#265 - 2016-02-13 07:38:54 UTC
Sorry, but this does not make me want to fly battleships. You are putting a short-range tackle module on a very slow ship that can't catch or lock anything. Useless.
Arla Sarain
#266 - 2016-02-13 08:43:36 UTC
Mr Hyde113 wrote:
Quote:

F -- riends, pilots, capsuleers, lend me your ears! Today we're ready to discuss a new module that we are planning on
r -- eleasing in our March patch.

I -- 'm excited to see how you creative pilots take advantage of them, esp solo/small gang BS pilots who should
g -- et a lot of value from them. The Stasis Grappler module is a new class of web that has high strength, low optimal
a -- nd high falloff. It will be the first webifier-type module to use falloff, which will reduce the strength of the web as
t -- he range increases. This module can only be fit onto BS and Caps, and just one per ship. It's seperate from
e -- xisting Stasis Webs, and doesn't get bonuses from any web-specific bonuses (so no range bonus on Bhaalgorns or
s -- trength bonus from Vindicators, and no benefit from gang links).



Shocked

grrrr firgteres
Artenso Vestindal
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#267 - 2016-02-13 13:23:45 UTC
Range and falloff seems too short for BC/capitals. Especially when it doesnt benefit from bonuses to webs. Is there even a BS that fights at those ranges apart of Vindi (and Vindi will utilise its bonuses and use standart webs)?

Maybe if you put a set of grappler skills, one for falloff (+10% per level), one for optimal (+20% per level), it will be actually beneficial to BSs.
Baali Tekitsu
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#268 - 2016-02-13 18:12:49 UTC
I dont see myself using them much since brawling is kinda **** but I guess they are still cool as it will be much easier to stay relatively close (~20k) to battleships that use these instead of a normal web.

RATE LIKE SUBSCRIBE

unidenify
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#269 - 2016-02-13 23:26:18 UTC
I going to humor myself and ask what is odd that Marauder may get 100% range bonus to falloff in place of tractor beam bonus?
Lugh Crow-Slave
#270 - 2016-02-14 14:13:01 UTC
unidenify wrote:
I going to humor myself and ask what is odd that Marauder may get 100% range bonus to falloff in place of tractor beam bonus?


Now this would be funTwisted
Kasia en Tilavine
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#271 - 2016-02-14 21:03:01 UTC
These seem stuck in limbo between two conflicting ideas.

1: provide up close powerful grapple item for heavy tackling.

2: provide projected slow down of distant targets so you can shark them or apply just that extra bit of Dps.

Pick one. powerful grapple for heavy tackling? BS's don't do that. Ever. Sharking distant targets as they get slower compared to you? BS's aren't fast enough to catch moss growing. Ever.

If you want to give these to a class of ship that needs help as the "special snowflake that makes them see use". Give them to assault frigates. They would love projected slowdown, with ever increasing speed imbalance. ending in an 85% heavy tackle on their 'at 0' target. Enyos would love them. Vengeance's would love them. Hawks would love them. Jaguars would love them.

Do that.
FT Cold
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#272 - 2016-02-15 01:00:46 UTC
Baali Tekitsu wrote:
I dont see myself using them much since brawling is kinda **** but I guess they are still cool as it will be much easier to stay relatively close (~20k) to battleships that use these instead of a normal web.


Yeah, it is crap, but it sure is fun and it leaves nice red streaks to go with the green on your KB.
Luscius Uta
#273 - 2016-02-15 08:25:19 UTC
I think that Bhaalgorn's bonus to web range should apply to Heavy Stasis Grapplers, since they already have a low optimal range, so it isn't likely to cause balance issues and I don't think those modules will be more popular than regular webs. Of course, it's another thing with Vindicator since 90% webs are already extremely strong.

Workarounds are not bugfixes.

Nico Aristaeus
The Vendunari
End of Life
#274 - 2016-02-15 08:55:39 UTC
Good mod for a bastion Golem.

There are two types of people: People that can extrapolate from incomplete data.

FireusI
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#275 - 2016-02-15 13:30:11 UTC
I like the sound of this module

But i also would like to see the

BPO 's costs

Items list to work out the cost of building them but as of yet none that i have seen.

Would like a update on this

regards

FriesuI


Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#276 - 2016-02-15 14:02:22 UTC
Kasia en Tilavine wrote:
These seem stuck in limbo between two conflicting ideas.

1: provide up close powerful grapple item for heavy tackling.

2: provide projected slow down of distant targets so you can shark them or apply just that extra bit of Dps.

Pick one. powerful grapple for heavy tackling? BS's don't do that. Ever. Sharking distant targets as they get slower compared to you? BS's aren't fast enough to catch moss growing. Ever.

If you want to give these to a class of ship that needs help as the "special snowflake that makes them see use". Give them to assault frigates. They would love projected slowdown, with ever increasing speed imbalance. ending in an 85% heavy tackle on their 'at 0' target. Enyos would love them. Vengeance's would love them. Hawks would love them. Jaguars would love them.

Do that.


no. We don't need frigates with webs that reach out to 24km. It will just continue to reinforce small kitey ships, and again big ships take another unneeded nerf. Stop trying to introduce gimmicks into small ships that will affect large ship operation. A web that reaches 20-24km and increase strength with range is actually quite good for brawling or even kiting BS. AF just need stats tweaked, or T3D's need another pass with the nerfhammer.

Yes BS are slow, but some are still fairly quick all things considered, like the phoon, mach, pest and bhargest. BS also have long range neuts, so combine long range neut with stasis grappler and it might be enough to shutdown tackle long enough to score good hits, or leave.

I think you should actually fly the ship before commenting on how useful a module will be for it. As brawling in a BS, especially a missile BS is still quite viable. I'm hoping to see an improvement with torpedo battleships especially with the grappler. Since most people will ram a battleship, they will be slowed by the 60-85% depending on range to the ship. Combined with 2nd web and application mods, torps might be able to hit cruisers and even frigs fairly well in scram range. Current stats show a torp phoon with 2 webs, missile computer and rigor rig + crash to apply around 300 dps to a dual MSE svipul, and perfect application to most cruisers. Grappler will make that better when svipul is hugging me around 1-2km, slowing it even further. So we might be able to get 350-400dps applied with torps on a shield svipul. Before drones, mind you.
Kasia en Tilavine
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#277 - 2016-02-15 15:58:43 UTC
Stitch Kaneland wrote:

no. We don't need frigates with webs that reach out to 24km.


Stop trying to introduce gimmicks into small ships that will affect large ship operation.


I think you should actually fly the ship before commenting on how useful a module will be for it.



These do not reach 24 km. At 22, they only reduce speed by 10%. Negligible if you're trying to catch size smaller ships or trying to hit with low tracking guns. A tracking comp gives you more tracking unscripted that that 10% slowdown would give you. So for either intended use, a different module would perform better.

Assault frigates and HACs are the only pirate or T2 ship classes in the game left that do not have a snowflake function. EVERY ship has something that you cannot get on another hull in any remote capacity. Everything has a gimmick. Its how CCP creates artificial floors for their uses.

Grid control RHM geddons are one of my favorite ships to fly. I see no use for these on a class of ship that lacks the speed to take advantage of the progressively better slowdown as you close range, and already possesses superb options for shutting down speed inside 10km and hammering 600+ dps onto somethings face. A heavy neut/Scram/Web pretty much already railroads anything out to 12km.

I guess i can't wait to be proven wrong. Will look forward to seeing them on the field.
Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#278 - 2016-02-15 22:23:32 UTC
Kasia en Tilavine wrote:
Stitch Kaneland wrote:

no. We don't need frigates with webs that reach out to 24km.


Stop trying to introduce gimmicks into small ships that will affect large ship operation.


I think you should actually fly the ship before commenting on how useful a module will be for it.



These do not reach 24 km. At 22, they only reduce speed by 10%. Negligible if you're trying to catch size smaller ships or trying to hit with low tracking guns. A tracking comp gives you more tracking unscripted that that 10% slowdown would give you. So for either intended use, a different module would perform better.

Assault frigates and HACs are the only pirate or T2 ship classes in the game left that do not have a snowflake function. EVERY ship has something that you cannot get on another hull in any remote capacity. Everything has a gimmick. Its how CCP creates artificial floors for their uses.

Grid control RHM geddons are one of my favorite ships to fly. I see no use for these on a class of ship that lacks the speed to take advantage of the progressively better slowdown as you close range, and already possesses superb options for shutting down speed inside 10km and hammering 600+ dps onto somethings face. A heavy neut/Scram/Web pretty much already railroads anything out to 12km.

I guess i can't wait to be proven wrong. Will look forward to seeing them on the field.


Fit MJD, fit dual web/tackle. Wait for scrams, kill scrams, leave.

Idk why people think they NEED to catch things in a BS. Things come to you in a BS. And if you end up fighting a kite gang who don't want to commit, then MJD your way to freedom. Its pretty simple baiting, or calling the kiter's bluff. If they don't want to commit, then i can't die, unless they are really well prepared (tackle in multiple locations in a 100km sphere).

10% isn't much, but as they get closer, they get slower, while they are also under heavy neut pressure. Being able to start slowing them at 22km (i thought it was 24, w/e) is much better than trying to slow them down starting at 13km, when by then, an MWD frig going 4k/s is going to coast through your web/scram and get tackle. Whereas with the grappler there is a little bit more wiggle room to either get transversal or neut them out so they can't apply tackle initially, which then bumps transversal.

It will still be tricky for turret kiting BS, but is an improvement for those of us who aren't flying around with a dedicated link alt and have stock in fed navy webs.
Kasia en Tilavine
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#279 - 2016-02-16 21:17:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Kasia en Tilavine
derp
Kasia en Tilavine
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#280 - 2016-02-16 21:18:57 UTC
Kasia en Tilavine wrote:
Stitch Kaneland wrote:

Idk why people think they NEED to catch things in a BS. Things come to you in a BS. And if you end up fighting a kite gang who don't want to commit, then MJD your way to freedom.


This is sort of at the core of why i am not super excited about these. They are going to shine in a defensive situations, true. When coupled with a scram, they can shut down fast targets enough to wreck.... Just like webs already do... The issue is that enemies who commit, will commit to scram range already. They would have, and won't turn back when they see the grappler effect. tunnel vision will be the end of them. With or without this becoming a thing.

Its nice to see a litte bit of falloff past web range and a fast refresh rate on the slowdown, but will these be all that more powerful than webs? Enough to warrant noticeable grid cost? I'm not seeing it. Maybe if there was no limit to how many could be fit....

Maybe we would be better off just making T2 webs 8+6 optimal and falloff and tossing the whole "grappler" module altogether.