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What kind of scam is the new FAX skill book?

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JackknifedII
The Congregation
RAPID HEAVY ROPERS
#41 - 2016-02-08 13:23:31 UTC
I remember when I had my first beer

Minmatar....we are generally unpleasant to be around....

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC81MDW6dFa41VdNTt-pTl1Q

Always recruiting
Meskia Majere
State War Academy
Caldari State
#42 - 2016-02-08 13:46:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Meskia Majere
"We understand that a lot of capsulers purchased their carrier as a logistics platform. We don't have defined plans for a transition between existing Carriers to the new Force Auxiliaries, but I can assure you it is on our radar, and we'll be announcing the transition plan with plenty of time for everyone to get ready."
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#43 - 2016-02-08 14:18:45 UTC
I do not really care how they handle the transition. I was excited at the prospect of getting some free SP through some sort of skill point matching (as with the split in Battlecruiser and Destroyer skills), but I know that the situation is not directly analogous.

If they release the skill books early and give people a chance to train them, that is fine - so long as they release the stats for the ships at the same time so that I know which one I want to train first.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#44 - 2016-02-08 16:05:23 UTC
buy the skill and train it, holy crap what a whiner.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2016-02-08 16:11:05 UTC
Hound Halfhand wrote:
Poddington Bare wrote:
Not sure if you're aware but something has shaved a stripe right up the middle of your head.


It's a reverse Mohawk. Otherwise known as an Amarrian landing strip.


Coincidentally, Amarrian 'landing strips' also have the unfortunate drawback of increasing a wearer's sig radius by a factor of a few hundred as a result of the resulting reflectiveness.

So the myth about the sun shining out of their arses is kinda true. Get it? I just called them buttheads Blink

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2016-02-08 16:12:16 UTC
JackknifedII wrote:
I remember when I had my first beer


Then you probably didn't drink enough of it.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#47 - 2016-02-08 17:16:50 UTC
Here's an update on how these skills will be handled.

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins
Scotsman Howard
S0utherN Comfort
#48 - 2016-02-08 17:28:48 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
Here's an update on how these skills will be handled.




I made mention in the other thread, but this update does not include an explanation to the fighter and fighter bomber skills. While the carrier skills are the main focus, no where that I have seen, has CCP addressed how this will be handled.
Pryce Caesar
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2016-02-08 18:07:35 UTC
kahn liam wrote:
Hound Halfhand wrote:
Stop whining. I'm sure CCP will give us a free remap. Or you can break out the credit card and buy a bunch of injectors. Now we at least know what is going to happen.

On the flip side if CCP did give out millions of free SP everyone would just sell them.


Stop whining? Myself and many others have had a skill jacked out from under them. I'd say that has some merit to complain about. And I do care about this alot hence why I'm "complaining", despite how much I care I refuse to support the money grab scam ccp calls skill extractors.


Oh come on. Just train Drone skills to use Carriers for their intended purpose, and you are set for Carriers again. The way you are behaving makes it sound like you think an individual Carrier can only fill one role. No skill was "jacked out from under you"; its use was simply relocated to the new Force Aux Capitals.

Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#50 - 2016-02-08 18:27:37 UTC
The way the (once)F&I thread puts it is a pretty fair option; as was the way it was suggested they would be dealing with ships (If you have a fitted Triage Module your carrier would convert to a FAX, if not it remains a Carrier. They can't do that with the skill of course, because some people will have Carriers both with and without Triage fitted.
Memphis Baas
#51 - 2016-02-08 20:19:13 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
Here's an update on how these skills will be handled.



Thanks, CCP Darwin, for putting effort into getting that information to us asap.

As you can see from that thread, there's some confusion about triage and capital remote repair skills for people who wish to fly carriers; it doesn't sound like these skills will still apply. Perhaps you can ask them to clarify that, too.

Thanks.
Tiberian Deci
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2016-02-08 23:34:02 UTC
Neuntausend wrote:
kahn liam wrote:
Mister Ripley wrote:
If you could fly it before, you can fly it now


Do you have the dev blog for this. I haven't been able to find any thing on it, but I've heard from several sources that they are introducing the fax skill book before releasing it because they decided to make everyone train it instead of giving any who could fly it before the ability to fly it after fax are released.

Maybe you misunderstood, so let me explain it: You could fly a Carrier before, and you will be able to fly it after. You could not fly a FAX before (simply because it didn't exist) so you will not be able to fly it after, unless you buy the book.

This rule was effective when battlecruisers were split up into racial skills: You could fly a ferox, brutix, cyclone and prophecy before the change, so you could fly them after as well. It's different with FAX, simply because they are completely new ships.


"You could fly triage before, you will not be able to after"
Snowmann
Arrow Industries
#53 - 2016-02-08 23:58:10 UTC
Common CCP, just let us remap 15% of our total SP a year.

Kind of like a neural remap. You know you want to...
Valterra Craven
#54 - 2016-02-09 00:01:40 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
Here's an update on how these skills will be handled.




You guys are really really frustrating on when and when you don't refund SP for skills affected. The fact is that you guys either need to A come up with clear and concise rules that you communicate to the community at large on how all future skill changes will be handled or B straight refund SP for any skill that gets changed.

Your old excuse of not refunding SP are no long valid given that you are now implementing Skill based trading.
CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#55 - 2016-02-09 00:07:43 UTC
Valterra Craven wrote:
You guys are really really frustrating on when and when you don't refund SP for skills affected. The fact is that you guys either need to A come up with clear and concise rules that you communicate to the community at large on how all future skill changes will be handled or B straight refund SP for any skill that gets changed.


I'm not sure exactly what skills you'd like to see handled differently in this change, but I recommend that you put your specific comments about what you'd like to see done differently in that other thread so they get seen by the developers in question.

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins
Valterra Craven
#56 - 2016-02-09 00:12:16 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
Valterra Craven wrote:
You guys are really really frustrating on when and when you don't refund SP for skills affected. The fact is that you guys either need to A come up with clear and concise rules that you communicate to the community at large on how all future skill changes will be handled or B straight refund SP for any skill that gets changed.


I'm not sure exactly what skills you'd like to see handled differently in this change, but I recommend that you put your specific comments about what you'd like to see done differently in that other thread so they get seen by the developers in question.



I think you guys finally actually handled THIS change perfectly. For once. What I'd like to see is you guys adopt this type of refund system in the future. My problem is that you've been inconsistent in the past. Aka the skill changes that drastically affected industry and manufacturing. You didn't refund SP then and you had a really poor rational for doing so saying that you really didn't want to refund SP to begin with. Yet here we are roughly two years later with you guys refunding SP again. It is really really frustrating how wishy washy you guys can be.
Dirk Magnum
Spearhead Endeavors
#57 - 2016-02-09 02:45:38 UTC
As a guy who trained Fighters to 5 without having any carrier skillbooks injected, here's what I think about all this...

                      "LIVE FAST DIE." - traditional Minmatar ethos [citation needed]
Luscius Uta
#58 - 2016-02-09 11:10:42 UTC
People who have both Carrier skill and Tactical Logistics Reconfiguration trained to at least L1 should receive FAX skill trained to the same level as their Carrier skill of the same race after FAXes get released. Those who injected and/or trained FAX skills between today and actual release of The Force Auxiliary ships should get their money and SP reimbursed.

Of course, some people will say that it goes against the current philosopy of not giving people skills to fly new classes of ships when they get released. However, when CCP releases new ship classes, they usually fill a new role. This is not the case with FAXes, since their role is copied from an existing ship class. They aren't really "new" ships in the same way that Command Destroyers or Logistics Frigates were, they were old ships fulfilling a specific role moved to an entirely new hull.

Workarounds are not bugfixes.
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
When Fleets Collide
#59 - 2016-02-09 13:31:34 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Have CCP seeded it?

Can you buy it from an NPC and inject it already?


Yes, 500m per skillbook.
Malcolm from Marketing
Klaatu Technologies
#60 - 2016-02-09 13:43:23 UTC
The fact the skill book is 500m is just wrong.

The dread skill book is 100m because the dread is a single role hull, you can only fit for gank, ergo 100m worth.
Carrier book is 500m, ok so this is justified as it allows dual roles in a single hull, plus its the key to flying a super.
The new fax skill book should be 100m along with the dread book as its a single role now in a separate hull, the carrier book should be reduced to about 350m to compensate not being able to duel use your carrier anymore.

Kind of a ' lol F*ck you guys, love CCP'