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New "Fighter-size" Mining Drone teased? Rorqual hope? CCP pls

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Amarrchecko
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2016-03-03 14:30:53 UTC
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
You're not getting it.

1st, they can provide content.
2nd, if they can mine on their own, they can generate wealth on their own. If they can do that, it's not a game of “whether or not“ but “when“ you lose it.
3rd, if you gain 1.8b ISK after your Platinum Rorq dies, all it has to do for you is make the difference in ISK of buy prize and payout before it dies. It's the same reason why people dont give a **** about dead ratting carriers: Because after a set amount of time (ticks) you're in the profitable zone. And that time is closer to 20 hours of afking than you'd think.


There are only 2 cons to using a rorq in a belt as I see it:
1. The rorq will eventually die, for a net loss of like 2 billion isk.
2. Enemies will eventually realize you like flying rorqs in belts and might pay extra attention to your system(s) compared to now when they know you will just dock up any time they come near. How much of a con this really is remains to be seen.

But there will be quite a few reasons to use a rorq in a belt:
1. Rorqual boosts, derp. Compared to orca or no boosts, this is very significant even if you're only flying your own few miner alts (who flies a rorq and doesn't also box at least a few miners, after all?). And if you're doing a bigger mining operation, all the more reason to want rorq boosts.
2. Rorqual support in the belt. This means a single player doing his own small mining op of alts won't need to use an account for a hauler or won't need to warp back and forth to the compression array with his miners. This may mean RR/drone support that makes it more appealing to use hulks in the belts instead of skiffs or mackinaws, and hulks have significantly higher yield than the other exhumers.
3. Rorqual mining drone yield, whatever that ends up being. A miner in null now is maybe 40-50 mil per hour with boosts and good skills? Even setting the mining drones to just 30-40 mil per hour is pretty significant for the rorq pilot.
4. Rorqual as a sacrificial lamb. Screw the invuln clicky. Just let the rorq die while the 1-3 billion isk worth of exhumers (which are less insurable than the rorq) you're boxing warp to the POS safely.


I run 5 accounts and am often the only one mining in a system at any given time. Not needing to use one account as a hauler and getting to fly hulks instead of skiffs? Those are huge boosts to my mining yield. If rorq drones are adding in on top of that and I'm either fielding the rorq or flying without boosts? Well... it won't take very many hours of life for that rorq to get into the black.
Smart Bomb
Nomad Collective
OnlyHoles
#22 - 2016-03-07 06:01:32 UTC
I heard that in addition to fighter sized mining drones the rorqual will be able to deploy a low HP shield bubble that protects the miners and itself inside within a short radius (15km?) of the rorqual. Meh gusta Big smile
Oxide Ammar
#23 - 2016-03-19 07:32:12 UTC
I guess the excavator drones have been added to sisi http://puu.sh/nK2g5/ad2bcf4281.png ,got it from EVE reddit.

Lady Areola Fappington:  Solo PVP isn't dead!  You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing.
Diametrix
Absolute Order
Absolute Honor
#24 - 2016-03-19 17:15:22 UTC
What if the new Rorqual will be to Mining what Carriers are to Fighting?

What if they use the new long deployability gameplay with fighter swarms and apply that to mining drones?

A platform like a Rorqual, far off grid, could mine with big swarms of drones and - with increased mobility or other escape modes - could survive and prosper...
Mark O'Helm
Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt
#25 - 2016-03-20 04:52:05 UTC
Diametrix wrote:
What if the new Rorqual will be to Mining what Carriers are to Fighting?

What if they use the new long deployability gameplay with fighter swarms and apply that to mining drones?

A platform like a Rorqual, far off grid, could mine with big swarms of drones and - with increased mobility or other escape modes - could survive and prosper...

I do so today. I use my orca in highsec with 5 big ice fighters(they make 1 block ice in 25,9 sec) and i can upgrade my cargo up to 1,204 mil m3. Cool

"Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen. Aber Frauen wollen keine Frauenversteher. Weil Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen." (Ein Single)

"Wirklich coolen Leuten ist es egal, ob sie cool sind." (Einer, dem es egal ist)
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#26 - 2016-03-30 19:51:58 UTC
Amarrchecko wrote:
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
You're not getting it.

1st, they can provide content.
2nd, if they can mine on their own, they can generate wealth on their own. If they can do that, it's not a game of “whether or not“ but “when“ you lose it.
3rd, if you gain 1.8b ISK after your Platinum Rorq dies, all it has to do for you is make the difference in ISK of buy prize and payout before it dies. It's the same reason why people dont give a **** about dead ratting carriers: Because after a set amount of time (ticks) you're in the profitable zone. And that time is closer to 20 hours of afking than you'd think.


There are only 2 cons to using a rorq in a belt as I see it:
1. The rorq will eventually die, for a net loss of like 2 billion isk.
2. Enemies will eventually realize you like flying rorqs in belts and might pay extra attention to your system(s) compared to now when they know you will just dock up any time they come near. How much of a con this really is remains to be seen.

But there will be quite a few reasons to use a rorq in a belt:
1. Rorqual boosts, derp. Compared to orca or no boosts, this is very significant even if you're only flying your own few miner alts (who flies a rorq and doesn't also box at least a few miners, after all?). And if you're doing a bigger mining operation, all the more reason to want rorq boosts.
2. Rorqual support in the belt. This means a single player doing his own small mining op of alts won't need to use an account for a hauler or won't need to warp back and forth to the compression array with his miners. This may mean RR/drone support that makes it more appealing to use hulks in the belts instead of skiffs or mackinaws, and hulks have significantly higher yield than the other exhumers.
3. Rorqual mining drone yield, whatever that ends up being. A miner in null now is maybe 40-50 mil per hour with boosts and good skills? Even setting the mining drones to just 30-40 mil per hour is pretty significant for the rorq pilot.
4. Rorqual as a sacrificial lamb. Screw the invuln clicky. Just let the rorq die while the 1-3 billion isk worth of exhumers (which are less insurable than the rorq) you're boxing warp to the POS safely.


I run 5 accounts and am often the only one mining in a system at any given time. Not needing to use one account as a hauler and getting to fly hulks instead of skiffs? Those are huge boosts to my mining yield. If rorq drones are adding in on top of that and I'm either fielding the rorq or flying without boosts? Well... it won't take very many hours of life for that rorq to get into the black.






Boosts are going to be "on-grid", and maybe even gone completely sometimes in the future.
I'm expecting to see mining boosts become on-grid aswell.

Also, a Rorqual balance pass is in the works. Especially with compression being available in POSes and probably Citadels aswell, the Rorqual's compression role is not what is going to make it worthwhile.

Next, check the market: There's Rorqual available for as little ISK as 2b last time i checked.
Insure it for 500m or so, receive 2.3b ISK insurance payout. This leads to a net-loss of about 200m ISK.
Add capital mods and rigs and it's going to be somewhere around 500m probably.

Mining "fighters" or whatever have been confirmed, and on Sisi there's a placeholder with about 200 mbit of bandwith usage and 400m³/60s, i wouldn't be surprised if it would be more than 1 drone you can use. All values are subject to change, of course, and at this point only speculative.

So, with a maxed out Hulk, you can haul in about 120m ISK / hr right now (if you manage to wipe your orehold every 100ish seconds.) If the Rorqual, as a mining platform, gets into that range, then we're talking about an effective mining time of about 4-5 hours until it has literally paid itself off. Every hour more it spends mining before getting blown to **** will be a big fat 100ish m ISK/hr (OR WHATEVER THE VALUE WILL BE) straight into your pocket.
And if it does become that awesome in hauling in mad ISK, then you will not only see one of them in the belts, you will see them in pairs, flocks, groups, fleets, whatever people deem reasonable.
And if you have a pair, flock, group or fleet of Rorquals on grid, a loss of them becomes ever more unlikely. Dropping one with a bunch of Blops is easy, 2 is watering your mouth, 3 yells for bait, and everything above that you'll probably need a few blapdreads for and pray for them to not just jump into safety once a neutral pops in or whatever.


TL;DR: BUY RORQS GUISE GOLDEN AGE IS CUMMING
Aurure
some random local shitlords
#27 - 2016-04-21 15:25:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Aurure
OP confirmed.

Buy your Rorquals while they're cheap!


Edit:
First rough details:
-Excavator Mining Super Drones, obtained from Rogue Drone Materials, pressed into form with ORE Blueprints, usable by Rorquals
-Rorqual Invulnerability "Super Weapon" for friendly industrial ships nearby to buy some time when your mining op gets crashed
-Mining Foreman Links ongrid ("mid-range")
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2016-04-21 15:42:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Gilbaron
Gevlin wrote:
Gilbaron wrote:
i can not wait to see all those glorious rorqual killmails when they get tackled in nullsec belts :)



Well I guess I will have to stock up on those Rorquals. See you in the Belts Gilbaron!



oh wow, i remember you from waaaaay back. good to see you are still around :)

if i remember correctly, i once led a mining op to help replace this loss of yours https://zkillboard.com/kill/13119427/ :P

i think i even had a clone in the bay when it popped :D
Zetaomega333
High Flyers
#29 - 2016-04-21 20:44:35 UTC
Aurure wrote:
OP confirmed.

Buy your Rorquals while they're cheap!


Edit:
First rough details:
-Excavator Mining Super Drones, obtained from Rogue Drone Materials, pressed into form with ORE Blueprints, usable by Rorquals
-Rorqual Invulnerability "Super Weapon" for friendly industrial ships nearby to buy some time when your mining op gets crashed
-Mining Foreman Links ongrid ("mid-range")



And forcing rorqs to be ongrid and in seige will be the death of them. GG ccp.
Aurure
some random local shitlords
#30 - 2016-04-21 22:47:26 UTC
Zetaomega333 wrote:
Aurure wrote:
OP confirmed.

Buy your Rorquals while they're cheap!


Edit:
First rough details:
-Excavator Mining Super Drones, obtained from Rogue Drone Materials, pressed into form with ORE Blueprints, usable by Rorquals
-Rorqual Invulnerability "Super Weapon" for friendly industrial ships nearby to buy some time when your mining op gets crashed
-Mining Foreman Links ongrid ("mid-range")



And forcing rorqs to be ongrid and in seige will be the death of them. GG ccp.


Jesus, please think before you post. Why?

Because:
1) There's a rebalance coming. It isn't even said the Rorq will have to siege up.
2) If the Rorq can make ISK on it's own rather than boosting the ISK/hr OTHERS make, the same economic rules will apply as they do on a Retriever. If it pays itself off before it dies, it's making profit.
2.a) How much do you think it has to pull at current prices to come into the profitable zone? The answer will shock you: About 300m ISK before it dies. This will obviously change, but just know that those "stupid guys" ratting AFK in a Carrier in nullsec take about 5-10 hours of AFKing to pay for the whole carrier. And if they multibox 10 afk carriers, they actually need 1 hour to replace one if it gets shot down. If you now think "but what if all 10 get shot down?" then you overestimate the stupidity of said players. Even if so, 10 hours, all replaced. Same will happen for the Rorq. Maybe not 10 hours, but we will see.
Sheeth Athonille
Rabid Dogz Mining
#31 - 2016-04-22 11:53:39 UTC
Aurure wrote:

2) If the Rorq can make ISK on it's own rather than boosting the ISK/hr OTHERS make, the same economic rules will apply as they do on a Retriever. If it pays itself off before it dies, it's making profit.
2.a) How much do you think it has to pull at current prices to come into the profitable zone? The answer will shock you: About 300m ISK before it dies. This will obviously change, but just know that those "stupid guys" ratting AFK in a Carrier in nullsec take about 5-10 hours of AFKing to pay for the whole carrier. And if they multibox 10 afk carriers, they actually need 1 hour to replace one if it gets shot down. If you now think "but what if all 10 get shot down?" then you overestimate the stupidity of said players. Even if so, 10 hours, all replaced. Same will happen for the Rorq. Maybe not 10 hours, but we will see.


Don't forget you have to compare it to what they'd be making in a smaller ship as well. If a Rorq is mining the same amount as a retriever (hypothetical) then you could make the same amount per hour in a retriever and would have no reason to use the Rorq regardless of how fast you can make the isk back. So the only real benefit of the rorq is still going to be boosting others. Now the boosting will quickly make it worthwhile, but you can't forget that. A rorq mining on its own in a belt is probably never going to be worth it unless it's able to pull in more than a fully skilled hulk.

Carriers are a little different since they actually make more isk/hr than any other afk ratting ship.
Lord Ra
Sicarius.
#32 - 2016-04-22 12:01:23 UTC
Citadels have an area of invuln within its proximity kinda like a pos bubble but depends how big it is i guess, there is a glimmer of hope but tbh the rorq can roll the **** over and die in my eyes.
Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#33 - 2016-04-23 07:58:30 UTC
Return on investment for a Rorqual (or other ship) needs to include the insurance premium. Not sure what that is for a Rorqual but it's roughly 1/3 the payout for platinum on most T1 hulls.

The "defensive superweapon" depends on the availability of a rescue fleet - otherwise it simply prolongs the agony. Might work for large, well organized alliances but for smaller groups, a stealth defense - perhaps dscan immunity - would be a lot more useful.

I expect we'll see a lot of command destroyers and T1 battlecruisers providing mining boosts once the on grid AoE rules are implemented.
Marcus Tedric
Zebra Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#34 - 2016-04-23 10:49:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Marcus Tedric
As long as the Rorq' boosts will now work without using the Rorqual (hopefully replaced) Industrial Module; ie deployed - then the best thing for a Rorqual will be a cloak and MWD.

Mining and Instant Compression. The 'super-weapon' for emergencies only if friends are handy.

Don't soil your panties, you guys made a good point, we'll look at the numbers again. - CCP Ytterbium
Mark O'Helm
Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt
#35 - 2016-04-23 13:22:42 UTC
Marcus Tedric wrote:
As long as the Rorq' boosts will now work without using the Rorqual (hopefully replaced) Industrial Module; ie deployed - then the best thing for a Rorqual will be a cloak and MWD.

Mining and Instant Compression. The 'super-weapon' for emergencies only if friends are handy.

That are big dreams man. But i don't think so.

"Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen. Aber Frauen wollen keine Frauenversteher. Weil Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen." (Ein Single)

"Wirklich coolen Leuten ist es egal, ob sie cool sind." (Einer, dem es egal ist)
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