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solving the fw pvp problem
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Joel Vaille
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2016-01-30 09:37:35 UTC
One thing that fw pilots always bring up when trying to fix or improve faction warfare is making pvp more sustainable. Someone always brings up how the system was exploited before. It shouldn't be that hard of a fix to make the system better without it being exploitable should it? I suck at math and I'm not sure how much current payouts are at, but what if lp payouts only covered the hull cost of the blown up ship minus the insurance payout? Could that be exploited? Like I feel like someone with a decent understanding of math could just solve this problem for us and almost no one would complain about fw anymore.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2016-01-30 11:54:52 UTC
Yes there are several ways that CCP could boost LP from PVP avoiding the ol' goon exploit.

On the other hand, LP is easy to make in FW. Even newbies can easily fund 100s of millions of PVP losses.

I also believe motivating people to undock and run complexes is good for the PVP health of FW.

If anything, I'd nerf mission LP payouts, or even eliminate them altogether. But that's just me, as I hate missioning. Lol

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Oreb Wing
Last Rites.
#3 - 2016-01-30 14:10:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Oreb Wing
The thread title should include LP in it, probably between FW and pvp. I do believe making the payout by hull can be gamed by the simple fact that we do not use all of the hulls all the time, in or out of factional warfare in pvp (which could open the possibility of the same kind of market manipulation that got it nerfed). Aside from that, I can sympathize with being in a hard place atm in barely t1 rewards. I don't think they (-50% rewards at T1) should be penalized by a whole half. It's pretty depressing.
Joel Vaille
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4 - 2016-01-30 16:51:05 UTC
It's just the way lp is gained which is stupid. No one wants to sit on a plex. Not a lot of people have time for it. A weekend full of defending or attacking a system will give u about 1 plex worth of lp. That's why fcs struggle with getting anyone to help with attacking or defending. If pvp was more viable people wouldn't choose farming over it when they are needed. Bigger fleets would be more fun. It's just a problem when u have like 300 people in the militia are online but only 15 wanna help attack or defend a system.
Perkin Warbeck
Higher Than Everest
#5 - 2016-01-30 22:54:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Perkin Warbeck
I always say this but I always believed that the LP payouts for FW were retardedly high and have only encouraged farmers. There was actually more PvP in FW before they introduced those payouts because there was a hardcore of PvPers who wanted to fight and contest systems.

The only problem is no one in FW wants to earn less LP or have to earn an income on alts. It's too easy to game both sides and just farm LP on whichever faction has the highest rewards. Welcome to FarmVille.
Dante Burke
Practical Applications
#6 - 2016-01-31 00:05:28 UTC
I can't speak for everyone, but my time in Gallente FW kept me pretty busy. My experience with the whole thing is different to the issues you seem to be having.

I was in plenty of solo fights, small gang, and even some that escalated to larger fleets when PL (pretty sure it was PL) decided to bash someone's POS, and we got in on the action of shooting back.

While some of my time un-docked did go by pretty passively, other times, It was pretty near constant action of attacking/defending. I think a lot of this had to do with the corp I was in at the time, who encouraged people to go solo fight, and the squids who worked in our area, seemed to have the same mentality.

It may come down to you being in the wrong place at the wrong time, or not being affiliated with people who share your same ideals of FW. If there's trouble with farmers, then make it so farming isn't profitable.

I solo warped into Asakai, and all I got was this stupid t-shirt. - Dante Burke
Oreb Wing
Last Rites.
#7 - 2016-01-31 00:10:13 UTC
That's just rubbish, man. There has definitely been more pvp since the revamp. Also, I supplement my pvp with indie alts on top of the LP. I bet some statistic graphs of ship losses per month could easily verify this, not to mention the battle of Asakai. The mission bomber plague is mostly gone now. Last, but not least, you could check out how many systems the squids have lost recently this past week alone.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#8 - 2016-01-31 00:20:58 UTC
pvp in FW is already perfectly sustainable, even at tier 1. The only players who complain about payouts are those who use FW to finance something else, e.g. more accounts, a capital etc.

2 novice plexes at tier 1 give you a faction frigate, at tier 2 you have a faction frig per plex. If you run a few missions at a high tier you will have more LP than you will be able to spend in FW pvp as a individual, unless you fly t3 cruisers on a daily basis

if you plex you also get pvp, since plexing is just a basic form of a domination game mode. LP payout for kills could be decoupled from the tier and set to the max unexploitable payout (i would assume thats tier 5 payout) but i don't think anyone at CCP is working on FW anymore so it probably won't happen any time soon.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Silverbackyererse
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#9 - 2016-01-31 01:17:10 UTC
If you are in FW and you can't sustain your PVP costs then you, or the people you spend your in game time with, are going about things the wrong way.
Hans Arzi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2016-01-31 04:46:29 UTC
My whole idea comes down to not wanting an alt to supplement my pvp. Im not gonna make an industry alt or a mining alt or any of that. I have a real life job already.and faction warfare shouldn't be about making isk for other accounts. It should be about fighting for your faction. The only time people should be in plexes should be to raise or lower a systems contested levels. It shouldn't be about making isk from it. I mean, technically with my original idea, if u were really good at pvp you would make some profit, but not a ton. If you guys are happy with Farmville faction warfare then fight anyone like me who would like more action. But don't then complain when u can't find a fight bc everyone are in plexes stabbed.
Fourteen Maken
Karma and Causality
#11 - 2016-01-31 07:27:51 UTC
I've thought about it a lot but there's not much they can do without making it exploitable. maybe they could fix everyone at max payouts instead of having it based on tiers, and there is more room to buff payouts on faction and t2/3 kills - but on t1 hulls there isn't much room to buff pay outs past t5 levels.
Joel Vaille
State War Academy
Caldari State
#12 - 2016-01-31 17:05:33 UTC
Yea ultimately I think there should just be buffs on the t2 and t3 kills. I don't think there is a lot of room for t1 buffs. I think a small portion of the lp should go back to the Corp the pilot is in. The corps get so little income but most provide a lot of ships.
Irya Boone
The Scope
#13 - 2016-01-31 19:41:24 UTC
Put orders from npc for LP items ( like WH blue loots)
Remove FW missions.
Buff the tier lp payout
Put 2 NPC in plexes ( one of each faction)
remove the system of LP donation to ihub to increase tiers only systems should matter

CCP it's time to remove Off Grid Boost and Put Them on Killmail too, add Logi on killmails .... Open that damn door !!

you shall all bow and pray BoB
Joel Vaille
State War Academy
Caldari State
#14 - 2016-02-01 01:27:46 UTC
Irya Boone wrote:
Put orders from npc for LP items ( like WH blue loots)
Remove FW missions.
Buff the tier lp payout
Put 2 NPC in plexes ( one of each faction)
remove the system of LP donation to ihub to increase tiers only systems should matter

Never thought about npc orders. It would be easier if everyone didn't have to go to jita to get paid and compete in the market. Yea I think fw missions should go until they can think of something much better for them to do with them. Yea a higher tier payout would probably help.
So there would be no difference in what u do in a plex? That would be interesting.
Yea I don't like the system of donating lp honestly. A small group of players do it while others don't and benefit from the other players. Controlling systems should be the only thing that affects tier.
A lot of good ideas I think.
Morathi II
Doomheim
#15 - 2016-02-01 03:31:22 UTC
could be InterestIng If a better way of promotIon for our rank. has exemple, u Instead than gaInIng a small amount of LP when u kIll some one, u gaIn poInt for your rank. same concept : hIgher value gIve better poInt and u splIt In between who partIcIpate In the kIll , just a dIfferent scale. Make a +2% LP gaIn per rank to a max of +20%. I know thIs Idea was not welcomed, but wIth an IncentIve of PVPers wIll ranks and those who just farn not seems more logIc to me.Also wIth that mIssIonnIng and capturIng plex wIll not have any effect In regards of your rank.
Irya Boone
The Scope
#16 - 2016-02-01 10:51:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Irya Boone
yes and in the other hand you get a **** ton of lp when you kill a "high rank" of the ennemy faction.
so the more you farm the juicier target you become ... :) ( according to the value of the ship of course to limit exploit)

CCP it's time to remove Off Grid Boost and Put Them on Killmail too, add Logi on killmails .... Open that damn door !!

you shall all bow and pray BoB
SeaSaw
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2016-02-01 19:55:47 UTC

Good Sirs;

If you want to log in and fight and then log out, all of it solo--farming plex is an active FW system (like vard this week) is your game. I always die, but I still make more than enough to keep playing.

You don't need friends, or a corporation, or a mic and teamspeak--you just maximize your window when you see a flashing red or yellow.

Don't change a thing please. If you play Eve as the third window back it seems action-packed this way. I wouldn't change a thing--and I have a 10% kill ratio.

your humble servent
SeaSaw
Lowhyres
Remember The Fallen.
Warriors of the Blood God
#18 - 2016-02-03 07:21:36 UTC
Irya Boone wrote:
Put orders from npc for LP items ( like WH blue loots)
Remove FW missions.
Buff the tier lp payout
Put 2 NPC in plexes ( one of each faction)
remove the system of LP donation to ihub to increase tiers only systems should matter


This but add one more thing to help kill the farmer Alta the plague the war zones. Make it so u can't get a system over 25% unless ur faction has a system within 2 jumps to it. Then 75% if u have a system next to it. If a system is at 25% and u take a plex, u get 0 LP. This old help keep farmer numbers down. Promote mobility or groups but still allow fortress systems.
Jethro Amar
Arknights.
Fraternity.
#19 - 2016-02-08 17:04:37 UTC
Why not just completely separate making isk from FW? This way the farmers will leave for other activities and we're left with pvpers only.

Make fw payouts as 110% insurance on losses incurred in FW systems. Incrase payouts for plexes, significantly.

This way FW pilots can easily replace losses for stress free pvp and even gain a small amount over time for new ships, but any farmer will lose 90% income when "laundering" the isk on insurance scams.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#20 - 2016-02-08 20:42:29 UTC
The only problem is....you're doing it wrong.
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